Hornby Steam Models, Are They Much Improved Since 2000?

[robmcg]

I was surprised recently to find that the first so-called super-detail models made by Hornby in China in 2000, R2169 Merchant Navy 35028 'Clan Line' were not all that easy to find in good condition.  Understandably so, given 20 years passed.

 

Having just bought one in good second-hand order, I find that apart from being analogue it is little different outwardly than the recent analogue 35030 release which is of course DCC-compatible.

 

Maybe I am not fussy enough? Handrails a bit too fat, cylinder drains absent, but little else to complain about. The brake rods and front steps are supplied, together with route discs.  Dead smooth runner like most from the 2000-2011 era in my experience.

 

Here is the model straight out of the box, and below that a version with not much editing.

Bravo Simon Kohler and the design and production team at Hornby, I think we owe them a vote of thanks not just for this early model but he continuing culture of excellence at  such a low price.

 

 

and with a few deft strokes of the virtual brush...

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by robmcg
typos

[Ruffnut Thorston]

One of the things that I have noticed is that later rebuilt MNs have the cab windows 'open', like in your edited photo...

 

I have also heard that the smoke box doors were changed at some point, to be more like they should be...

 

I believe that the front weight block is smaller in the DCC ready locos, with the 8-pin socket in the loco mounted on top of the weight block.

 

I suppose that the most recent models have the white plug and socket, with the DCC and sound fittings Inthe tender?

 

[robmcg]

Indeed I think the smokebox doors were changed very early in production, but I cannot tell the difference.

 

Another early Merchant Navy characteristic was a sprung rear driving axle which  unfortunately inhibits traction and can make the engine sit a fraction high at the cab end. I think this was changed in early 2003.

 

Ramsay's says they were made DCC-ready with socket in the tender from 2005, but I am not sure if the DCC socket was in the engine for a few years up to 2012 when the first sound versions were made.

 

Intriguing stuff.

Edited July 3, 2020 by robmcg
typo

[atom3624]

Cab rooves and cylinder draincocks, visually.

 

Most retooled locomotives have a sliding cab roof.

 

Al.

Edited July 3, 2020 by atom3624

[No Decorum]

Responding to the thread title, my answer would be, “Er …” Of course, there is now better provision for DCC and sound where there is space. However, take, for example, Hornby’s Coronation. Huge holes in the front of the casing and the stripes not meeting in a point. The latter wouldn’t bother me so much had Hornby not got them right on an earlier model. Those shortcomings were enough to put me off, so I can’t comment further, except to say that it was a crying shame because so much else seemed excellent. Turning to the Ivatt Duchess, the drawbar cannot be used on its shorter setting and the flanged trailing wheels foul the framing of the trailing truck. At least in this case, both problems can be rectified.

 

On the other hand, the new Princesses are quite magnificent and the little Pecketts are beautifully done. May I hope that Hornby is keeping a closer eye on future releases?

[robmcg]

4 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Responding to the thread title, my answer would be, “Er …” Of course, there is now better provision for DCC and sound where there is space. However, take, for example, Hornby’s Coronation. Huge holes in the front of the casing and the stripes not meeting in a point. The latter wouldn’t bother me so much had Hornby not got them right on an earlier model. Those shortcomings were enough to put me off, so I can’t comment further, except to say that it was a crying shame because so much else seemed excellent.  .....

 

Indeed. I even bought a wartime black earlier version the other day because it is a rather nice rendition of an engine from those dark days.   

 

 

And that's without stripes...

 

It also has lamp holders, front brake hose and steps pre-fitted,    and in my experience the Sanda Kan production 2004-2010 was almost always quiet and smooth-running.

 

That's not to say I don't like my LMS Princess Coronations 6221 and 6224...   superb blue livery and I confess I haven't looked too closely at the front stripes, it was difficult enough to find one with the front top handrails still attached!  And if detached, still in the box....  

 

[dibber25]

On 03/07/2020 at 23:11, Sarahagain said:

One of the things that I have noticed is that later rebuilt MNs have the cab windows 'open', like in your edited photo...

 

I have also heard that the smoke box doors were changed at some point, to be more like they should be...

 

I believe that the front weight block is smaller in the DCC ready locos, with the 8-pin socket in the loco mounted on top of the weight block.

 

I suppose that the most recent models have the white plug and socket, with the DCC and sound fittings Inthe tender?

 

The smokebox door was changed right at the very beginning when I (and others, too, I think) pointed out in early reviews that it was the wrong shape. If I recall correctly, it was a separate fitting, so it was easily replaced and I think few, if any, with incorrect smokebox doors got released for sale. (CJL)

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

To answer the title question, very significant improvements in a number of respects since 2000.

Bogies on pivot post mountings rather than 'flopsy bunny' bars, even if Hornby left it to owners to put a soft spring on.

Bunker spaces usually fully modelled with very easily removed coal representations.

Steady improvement to cab fall plates and floor extensions. The Q1 was a good start on this, and the representation of the Stratford style of a wood framed extension is beautifully executed on the J15, D16/3 and B12/3.

Mechanically competent motor mounting introduced on the Britannia (2006?), and maintained since on all newly tooled introductions I have seen.

Plug in electrical connection between loco and tender (possibly also first seen on the Britannia?).

Properly positioned loco to tender drawbar - only on the Britannia (and probably the Clan?) - which was extremely neat and allowed scale spacing, but not repeated since unfortunately. But the drawbars have remained better than what was standard before the Brit., and typically have a scale or nearly so spacing provided.

Applied exterior detail reached the 'everything practical in 4mm commercial production' from the Brit - and significantly on this model it stayed attached. (The A3 and A4 from two years earlier showered parts all over my layout!)

Well selected higher gear ratios for superior slow speed movement, while retaining a full scale speed capability.

Superior pick up wiper design introduced  on driving wheels, following Bachmann's pattern from about 2010.

Glazing improvement, flatter, so less lensing, and a very high polish. (I recall first noticing this on the L1, where I could look through the cab glazing of both sides and the view of what was behind the model was clear and only slightly distorted.)

Progressively closer attention to accurate driving wheel spoke and hub patterns.

Largely metal construction for smaller tender loco bodies, with good traction thereby obtained by well distributed weight: so no recourse to traction tyres even on 'difficult' subjects like 4-4-0s. (Hornby should only make this standard throughout the range.)

 

In my opinion it was with the Britannia introduction that Hornby hit their stride in exploiting the HO technique that China could provide. Here was their first model that was a good match for what Bachmann had impressed me with in late 1999, the WD 2-8-0 (which remains a good model).

[4069]

Handrails and the associated knobs are a very noticeable improvement in the last 20 years on both Hornby and Bachmann. The others have not all followed- the Rapido Stirling single is very much spoiled by overscale handrail fittings, in my view.

[trevor7598]

I totally agree about a sprung pivot post over the ' flopsy bunny ' bars for the front bogie.

My Hornby Bulleid pacifics run fine, but their Gresley pacifics are prone to derail because

of the horrible front bogie arrangement especially as the bogie is very light in weight.

 

My Bachmann A1 and A2's also seem to cope very well, and don't suffer from frequent

front bogie derailments.

 

Flopsy bunny bars offer too much slop with too little control.

[robmcg]

I must live in a parallel universe. Had a 9' x 4' set track Peco rondy layout for 6 years and hardly ever had a problem, even with the reviled L1 2-6-4T     2nd ad 3rd radius set track medium and large radius points.

 

 

or

 

 

[No Decorum]

13 hours ago, robmcg said:

I must live in a parallel universe. Had a 9' x 4' set track Peco rondy layout for 6 years and hardly ever had a problem, even with the reviled L1 2-6-4T     2nd ad 3rd radius set track medium and large radius points.

 

It’s nice to see your layout again, Rob. I used to enjoy your contributions using it. It’s a shame you lost it.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

15 hours ago, robmcg said:

...the reviled L1 2-6-4T ...

Reviled? It's a beauty. Just the one weak feature of that silly and obsolete camming pony truck arrangement, which is easy to alter if it matters to the operator.

[robmcg]

11 hours ago, No Decorum said:

It’s nice to see your layout again, Rob. I used to enjoy your contributions using it. It’s a shame you lost it.

 

Thanks, it was an enjoyable time, with all the limitations of roundy-roundy layouts....   a lot of 'rule one' applied!

 

 

[robmcg]

9 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Reviled? It's a beauty. Just the one weak feature of that silly and obsolete camming pony truck arrangement, which is easy to alter if it matters to the operator.

 

Ok, the Thompson L1 2-6-4T was reviled by crews, at times.  As to the front pony truck, for me it worked ok.

 

Cheers

 

here is the type of thing I did not long before the 2/2011 earthquake.

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Back to the subject of the thread, another early Merchant Navy model which was produced in 2000-3 and is now not so easy to find is R2171 rebuilt 35005 'Canadian Pacific'.

 

So I just bought one, paid probably over the odds at UKP130, and created an illustration of another identical one from an old Hattons ad... pic edited but the engine is very little changed.

 

 

I was also pleased to find that Peters Spares has a pile of 35028 'Clan Line' bodies for sale at UKP31 which will make a nice project since my original version (the one which inspired the thread) has the pre-2003 sprung rear drivers chassis which is not so brilliant for traction.

 

I have a 35012 with later chassis  plus tender, which was damaged in some ancient event, whistle off etc, and changing the bodies of these engines is just about within the orbit  of my technical expertise.  I think a very few of the original 35028s were made with a later chassis but not sure.

 

Then I will have two complete undamaged 35028s... maybe I'll weather one or rename-number it, ah, the possibilities in this great hobby!  

Edited July 7, 2020 by robmcg
addition

[No Decorum]

11 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Thanks, it was an enjoyable time, with all the limitations of roundy-roundy layouts....   a lot of 'rule one' applied!

 

 

All the better for it!

 

11 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

here is the type of thing I did not long before the 2/2011 earthquake.

 

 

An old Princess! I rather panicked at a rumour that Hornby was going to re-tool the Princess and bought an old one out of fear that Hornby would knock out one with flangeless wheels under the cab. I have to admit that Hornby seems to have checked that the flanged wheelset will function properly under the latest Princesses.

 

A parallel Scot! I’m still unhappy that Bachmann chose not to go ahead with re-tooling the old model and present it in LMS red. A lovely livery, showing to perfection on the Jubilee.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

17 hours ago, robmcg said:

Ok, the Thompson L1 2-6-4T was reviled by crews, at times...

Ah, the real thing not the model, generally referred to as the 'Concrete mixer' in the KX area for the terrible noises that heralded its approach; and deprecated by the regular commuters for its unreliability.

 

I was truly surprised that Hornby ventured a model, but it looks handsome enough and works better than the prototype! I don't think current listeners who hadn't heard it at lineside would quite credit an accurate sound recording.

[robmcg]

An example of a year 2000 model...  pre-DCC ready but still pretty much the same externally as today's Merchant Navy models,  and I like it.

 

 

Still runs smoothly after years in storage. Must be luck!

 

With some details on, and some liberties with PSP6 photo editing, here she is ready for the ACE.  Picture inspired by the one on p218 of the Irwell Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics.

 

 

What a fine model! 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by robmcg
added comment and pic