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To Collect or To Run Hornby Models? How Many Stay in Boxes?


robmcg
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Hi All,

 

Having enjoyed Horny 00 trains since the 1950s, with a long break from c1966 to 2004 where interests lay elsewhere, I have so admired post-2000 Hornby 00 models of mostly large steam that I have amassed quite a collection.

 

I am not alone.  Many here admit to buying models which spend most of their lives in boxes.

 

I have had various dioramas and layouts, and enjoy running models with appropriate stock, but just recently went to open a s/h 2005 model of Bulleid Battle of Britain 34078 '222 Squadron' and was intrigued that although second-hand it looked very much as if it had never been out of its packaging.

 

Tissue paper around the engine and tender looked rather pristine but more importantly, there were 5 blocks of foam in specific locations; front buffer, boiler-top, engine-tender wheel-gap, above the coal, and a small one above the tender rear.  Not often found in my experience with second-hand models.  There was a sticker on the box for £99.99 with the name of what I think is a defunct shop.  Could it be that this was genuinely 'as new'?

 

I was was just about to remove it from its packaging when I thought about the many on auction sites where 'as new' means 'never removed from packaging'..  and in such cases the tissue might be gently pulled back for a photo, in some cases the seals on the packet re untouched. I presume 'never removed' enhances value.

 

I'm curious about this rather arcane subject, and the answer to the question, 'how many models are sold to collectors?'  Also is there any point in keeping the model completely unopened should I want to re-sell it? 

 

I this a perfectly valid hobby?  To buy models and never take them out of their boxes?   I think it is.  To simply like OWNING the model.

 

As an aside, the green used on a version of this engine which I owned about 12 years ago but eventually sold, is pleasantly dark BR Brunswick Green, unlike some more modern models. Whatever is happening to the world!? That's what I say!

 

Img_4868abcd_r1800.jpg.2d9de91f3ae069619618736f1fbaadce.jpg

 

Or as photographed and edited by me many years ago.

 

Bulleid_34078_Kent_1957_4abp_crop1_r1800.jpg.84b2fc2243e1360fb8309f3b171bc6b1.jpg

 

Cheers, and comments invited.

 

 

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I know 'each to his own' and that collectors get great pleasure from owning "pristine" models, but personally I find it a bit sad when models sit unopened in their boxes.  All that design effort, manufacturing expertise and precision engineering to create a physical recreation of something in miniature, designed to move, and it sits inside the box, swaddled in tissue, never turning a wheel.  :sad_mini:

 

The analogy I would draw would be to Woody, Buzz Lightyear & Co in the "Toy Story" films - toys that long to be played with... if our locos had feelings, I'd imagine them feeling lonely and forgotten wrapped up in their boxes and never fulfilling the role for which they were created for.

 

Note to self: neat spiced rum makes my posts seem glum! :laugh_mini2:

 

Steve S

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I collect models from several eras, and several countries. 
I own more locos than some shops.

But like everything, family, work, means I buy it now, and it awaits the day to be used.

That means using them once or twice in a number of years.


maybe its a waste, but my alternative is to sell them after once use, and maybe buy it back again someday in the future, or to do without.

 

Until recently I was buying “fleets in an era”, but its resulting in too many duplicates, and that “era” or “theme” is getting stretched.

 

With price rises, duplications and varying quality, I am buying less than I used to. 3 years back i’d have bought all 3x 61xx’s, no question.. now Ive not even ordered one, nice as they are, and the 3x older ones i’ll just reduce to two, or perhaps one... I need space for what I want moving forwards.

 

I accept at some point i’m going to thin out and focus my collection. I have started latterly by selling locos that just don't perform well, but the big job is coming... which means many locos that are barely used...

maybe I am just doing the same as several others before me.

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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Would I be being too cynical if I speculated that a trend towards collecting rather than operating may allow manufacturers to get away with lower quality control? 

If half of a production run can be reliably expected to go straight into the nation's gloat cupboards unopened, you can get away with double the number of faults for a given number of warranty claims.;)

 

Seriously, though, there are many ways to enjoy model railways. I can see the appeal to simply having nice models. It's a perfectly valid interest. It's not for me, though. I can't afford it (although I have seriously contemplated laying down the odd high end, large scale loco as a nice to own value store), and my own enjoyment of the hobby tends more towards the practical, whether that's scraping fossilised grot from some ancient toy mechanism, or burning my fingers on etched brass. 

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One our favourite importers (now long gone) told me that he'd had to disappoint some customers as his allocation wouldn't cover the orders. One of his disappointed customers told him that he hoped "his" model would go to someone that would run it as it would increase the value of the mint models.

 

 

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I think it's sad that people even purchase just to keep in boxes ....

but I've had to salute some who have - it's permitted me to collect some really nice, no longer manufactured locomotives -

to run of course - fit crew, often weathered, detailing always fitted ... 

 

Al.

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I buy my trains to run them, but as I am currently 'between layouts' some purchases have not yet been taken out of their boxes as I have nothing to run them on, but they WILL RUN some day.

 

 

An unintended side effect of having such purchases is that arising from a recent change of mind about some items, coupled with a desire to raise some funds, I recently sold some of the unopened trains on Ebay and am very pleased with the prices obtained.

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All mine are bought to run, and once run in a bit, have crew (if at all possible) and twiddly bits such as pipework, etched name/ numberplates, headcode disks etc (if appropriate) fitted, and look better for it. 

If I sell any on, there seems to be a market for them in that condition, and I've had the pleasure of running them.

 

I suppose you could buy two, one to run/ detail etc and one kept unopened for "investment" purposes. As the adverts say, though, remember that investments can go down, as well as up.....

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Currently, my main layout is packed away, so all the locos and rolling stock are likewise.  However, even when its up and running, a large proportion are boxed, because they don't fit the period/company/region that I'd be operating.  But they won't stay boxed and unused forever, their turn will come!

 

 

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In my earlier post, I should have said there was a difference between buying with the intention if running (I am guilty of that - take a look in my Lidl display cabinet!) and buying with the intention of keeping it pristine in the box.  I sometimes wonder if some of those "box unopeners" watch Antiques Roadshow or Flog It and think of their models as investments?

 

Steve S

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I reckon about 70% are never run, based on the proportion of stock I've bought on eBay that's never been run, plus that BRM survey a while back that showed 80% (iirc) of respondents didn't have a layout. I would suspect BRM readership would be more to the modeller end of the spectrum than the box collector so that was surprising.

 

Personally I have no issue whatsoever with those who just buy a model because it looks nice, after all there's plenty of folk who spend good money on plates, figurines etc.

Edited by spamcan61
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Just now, Hroth said:

Currently, my main layout is packed away, so all the locos and rolling stock are likewise.  However, even when its up and running, a large proportion are boxed, because they don't fit the period/company/region that I'd be operating.  But they won't stay boxed and unused forever, their turn will come!

 

 

At least 80% of mine are boxed or in the display cabinet at any time, so they get gradually rotated over a period of 18 months plus, having a couple of months running. It's 1989 at present, having worked through from the 50s during lockdown. Once its reached 1999ish, (don't do any later) in a few weeks, there'll be a major boxing and unboxing exercise before it becomes Southern/ GWR 1930s for example.

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Just now, spamcan61 said:

I reckon about 70% are never run, based on the proportion of stock I've bought on eBay that's never been run, plus that BRM survey a whole back that showed 80% (iirc) of respondents didn't have a layout. I would suspect BRM readership would be more to the modeller end of the spectrum than the box collector so that was surprising.

 

Personally I have no issue whatsoever with those who just buy a model because it looks nice, after all there's plenty of folk who spend good money on plates, figurines etc.

Indeed, if people didn't buy them to display/ store only, I imagine that sales wouldn't justify production of some items, or at least much higher unit costs.

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Once I give a model a good test, I then detail/change identity/weather (or completely respray) and the box goes to live in a dark corner of the loft, the loco stored in stock boxes.  

 

Every now and again, I junk all the boxes in the loft.  I had a large clear out of models that don't suit my modelling periods, almost none of these had boxes, and none were as they left the factory, but I still realised great prices for them.

 

Collecting to me is pointless - but I respect those who do it, and when those collections hit eBay, I pick up some right good bargains.  Saying that, I do have a substantial number of unbuilt kits...

 

There are very few models that could be bought as a real investment.

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Personally, I buy a model to use (even if it's infrequent!). I can see the attraction of having a model just to put on display - some of todays models look better than they run. I don't understand buying a model and leave it unopened in its box. Other than any satisfaction in saying you've owned all the Hornby models ever made I can't see how you'd get enjoyment out of it other than any buzz you get from buying it or just owning it.

 

Steven B.

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The ones that I think are a bit cuckoo are the ones who insist that the pointless bit of tissue paper wrap that Bachmann have around their boxes in the big cartons must be intact and undisturbed so they can't even see the box let alone the contents.

 

Might as well sell them a box correctly weighted but otherwise empty.

 

I am with James May on this subject, get them out of the box, enjoy them for that is what they were made for and sling the packaging in the loft/recycling/ebay....

Edited by John M Upton
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One of the problems is quite simply availability of specific models over time. Naturally enough manufacturers don't make things forever and there is always the concern that if you want to change direction in a few years time then the models you need will either be hard to obtain, very expensive or both.

 

I have found myself with a large collection in a vague attempt to future prof myself should my plans or desires change with regard to modelling. As a result while some are on display and get used), I have many more in boxes in case my tastes change in the coming years.

 

It doesn't help that my eventual aim would be to model a Heritage railway (check out the likes of Ropley or Sedburgh on this site before you sneer) and Heritage railways sometimes like to vary loco liveries between overhauls. The E4 (Birch Grove) on the Bluebell has carried a number of liveries over the years and the ability to replicate that principle in model form can easily lead to a large collection being accumulated.

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I must admit that I buy models from all manufacturers for a purpose and don’t stay in their boxes for long, the only exception will be the Hornby Class 66 produced in recognition of Capt Tom Moore.

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13 hours ago, robmcg said:

...I'm curious about this rather arcane subject, and the answer to the question, 'how many models are sold to collectors?' ...

And the answer is 'we just don't know' not least because the make up of the purchasers that leave the model unused in the box and thus might be classified as 'collectors' is unknowable. That spectrum might be considered to range from those who purchase with the full  intention of building a layout they can use the models on in future (and quite possibly have one or more layouts in use which are not suitable in some way); and those who purchase because despite having filled every available space in the house with models in boxes, only half the width of the stairs is really required for access, and the rest is a ready made racking system.

 

Near half my RTR OO locos/mechanisms/feedstock for the layout have been bought s/h; and 80%ish have either never been used or briefly inspected and possibly test run, and then reboxed. This contrasts radically with my s/h purchases of rolling stock: with rare exceptions that is used, and frequently very well used; and also the desirable pieces are not nearly so readily available.

 

I am very grateful on two counts.

Firstly in enabling regular purchase of useful models in good or better condition at a healthy discount.

Secondly, that the RTR OO traction supply is supported for modellers by the volume sales to the majority of purchasers that don't actively use their models on layouts. (If only this behaviour might be extended to rolling stock - in the ratio of let's suggest three coaches or ten wagons per loco - then it would be very peachy indeed.)

 

 

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

...Might as well sell them a box correctly weighted but otherwise empty...

Were I a dodgy geezer, I would shift a large quantity of 'mint in box' which would be entirely accurate in respect of the Polo...

Edited by 34theletterbetweenB&D
to correct a weird text insertion
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I'm very much for a 'live and let live' approach here. Like many, I am not a collector 'per se' of modern RTR but there are many aspects to my acquisition that would put me in that camp:

  • I keep the boxes and bits. If it's turned up complete and I know that it makes a difference should I need to sell in future, why cut off my nose by chucking all the bits away?
  • I've got far too much stuff to actually run everything. It's all tested and different things are run at different times but most of it sits on shelves most of the time. This is where these multiple units that need careful connecting up are a real pain - it's too much faff to get them set up for a quick circuit
  • I am quite interested in the evolution of models so often my examples of a model 'tell the story' from first release through to latest version

I've also gots lots of older RTR dating back to the 60s, and the story is not dissimilar - if it's pristine and hardly been run I'll tend to keep it like that but I've many more used examples that will get used if I have the time.

 

 

Edited by andyman7
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1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

The ones that I think are a bit cuckoo are the ones who insist that the pointless bit of tissue paper wrap that Bachmann have around their boxes in the big cartons must be intact and undisturbed so they can't even see the box let alone the contents.

 

Might as well sell them a box correctly weighted but otherwise empty.

 

I am with James May on this subject, get them out of the box, enjoy them for that is what they were made for and sling the packaging in the loft/recycling/ebay....

 

I must admit I tend to keep the tissue paper intact until it gets tatty.

 

Only as it stops surface wear. The box is always opened. Just opened a couple a few minutes ago as my Bachmann Collectors Club models have just turned up.   :)

 

However I do keep them in or with the boxes, even if they have been heavily modified. Boxed sell better than unboxed and I would expect it would be other family members benefiting rather than me.

 

 

Jason

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Always purchase to 'play' with =) I agree with the comments where it does seem a shame for all the design and work that goes into creating a moving scale model for it to spend its life in a cabinet / on a shelf / in its box. 

 

Perhaps there is a market for un motorised models? A venture for the Corgi brand maybe? 

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Waiting for the day in a shop to find a collector wondering if they have had a particular model returned as a faulty runner as he only to display it:D Wonder how many perfectly good Hornby Rockets will never leave their box while I'm having to send mine back via the seller to Hornby for repair as it is faulty,

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1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Always purchase to 'play' with =) I agree with the comments where it does seem a shame for all the design and work that goes into creating a moving scale model for it to spend its life in a cabinet / on a shelf / in its box. 

 

Perhaps there is a market for un motorised models? A venture for the Corgi brand maybe? 

 

This has been discussed previously. By omitting the motor you are saving literally pennies. Not worth the bother.

 

However the "collectors" don't want static models. They want the same models as everyone else, just unused.

 

It's a collectors thing. Just like people who buy vinyl records and don't play them. They are sometimes worth a fortune. If you collected the right band then it would buy you a house.

 

 

 

Jason

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