To Collect or To Run Hornby Models? How Many Stay in Boxes?

[Philou]

I would be classed as a collector as I collect models - not for their rarity or as an investment - but for that layout I promised myself. (I've been more or less told by SWMBO that I should make a start this autumn!!! ).

 

For those that consider chucking the box away is of not much consequence - I have kept all of mine - even stuff from the 60s as it's much easier to store.

 

Here's a photo of an HST (original Hornby) with a full rake of Jouef coaches) as they are, out of their boxes - as good as new:

 

 

I reckon it's worth packing them away in their boxes - even though the boxes may not be quite pristine.

 

A tale to tell: One very hot day, one of my plastic containers must have sagged a little and a number fell quite a distance (about 10 feet) and despite two being completely fractured, the stock in their boxes survived unharmed.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[robmcg]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

This has been discussed previously. By omitting the motor you are saving literally pennies. Not worth the bother.

 

However the "collectors" don't want static models. They want the same models as everyone else, just unused.

 

It's a collectors thing. Just like people who buy vinyl records and don't play them. They are sometimes worth a fortune. If you collected the right band then it would buy you a house.

 

 

 

Jason

 

That made me smile. I had a John Mayall Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton original LP which I believe had considerable value by the 1980s.  After the 2011 Christchurch earthquake my house was wrecked and I let a guy who helped me and who collected LPs have a choice of any in my collection. His eyes lit up when he saw it!   

 

When Hornby did Light Pacific 34001 'Exeter' a few years ago only about 300 made it to the market, nobody has given a clear reason in public, but before they went for silly prices?  UKP300-ish I bought three at standard retail, still have two an they aren't worth much, even though different in minor detail from the second-run... 

 

Odd things, s/h values.  I know many trawl Ebay and other auction sites for undervalued 'gifts'.  Simple pleasures. 

 

For me, the astounding and little-remarked thing is how such marvellous models as a BR Britannia can be made and sold at such low prices. Who among us could even assemble one let alone make all the parts ad paint them?

 

I think modern RTR models are works of art, and hats off to everyone involved in their production.

 

 

[robmcg]

Further to the above, the new Hornby Terrier would be hard to assemble, let alone create and paint, and is only 65 quid before VAT...  

 

As to the new Rocket, is it even worth attempting to remove from its packaging?  A fearsome challenge unless a forensic packaging expert methinks. Not all of us can apply microscopic dabs of superglue or solder to dislocated parts so small they defy any normal hand.

 

Reminds me of those who solder door handles on 00 carriage doors...   

 

Will there be a backlash?  A move back to models which can survive 'normal' handling? 

[robmcg]

Or possibly we all wait for this....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-DUBLO-EDL7-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY-N2-0-6-2-Tank-ELECTRIC-2594-good-boxd-c1939/184326625288?hash=item2aeab91808:g:1IQAAOSwK21e7RdI

 

Probably more suited to the Ebay Madness thread, but the point is made.

 

Maybe I'll flood the market with my Hornby Clans.....

Edited July 4, 2020 by robmcg

[BR60103]

Does anyone want to comment on unassembled kits?

 

The importer I mentioned above had a rather high estimate of the percentage of the kits he sold that were never made.

 

If buying for investment, look for items that will not sell in quantity.  One item in demand in the N.A. collectors market is a Lionel set with a pink steam locomotive and cars in pastel shades like "robins egg blue".  It was marketed as a "Girls Set" and sank like a stone. IIRC there may have been a "Boys" version with a blue locomotive.

 

[Butler Henderson]

All mine are intended for running but having a layout (when it is finally rebuilt in part) operational for a number of different periods means a number are boxed at any one time. Ones that have ice cube packaging I leave just in that. 

9 hours ago, robmcg said:

As to the new Rocket, is it even worth attempting to remove from its packaging?  

Quite simple, just made that more complicated by Hornby not issuing any instructions with the model on how to do it. The loco and tender rest on a plastic tray and it's a simple matter of pushing that evenly from the underside. 

 

10 hours ago, robmcg said:

When Hornby did Light Pacific 34001 'Exeter' a few years ago only about 300 made it to the market, nobody has given a clear reason in public, but before they went for silly prices?  

IIRC a second batch was released which stung the hopes of a number of eBayers as selling prices fell like a stone. 

[sncf231e]

On 04/07/2020 at 00:50, robmcg said:

Hi All,

 

Also is there any point in keeping the model completely unopened should I want to re-sell it? 

 

 

Cheers, and comments invited.

 

 

Re-sell? Why would you re-sell. If you sell your trains you will never win as Ward Kimball said:

 

 

I have never sold a train and have never kept a train in a box.

Regards

Fred 

[cessna152towser]

I buy trains with the intention of running them, but they don't get run much as I only have a small fiddle yard to branch terminus laout. 

Most of my stock spends the majority of its life back in its box.

There are a few trains which are a bother to couple and uncouple and on which the non-standard couplings would be prone to damage.

For example the Dapol Megafret pair, the Realtrack class 142 and the Bachmann Windhoff MPV.   These are displayed permanently coupled and unboxed on sections of track on a shelf when not in use on the layout.

[robmcg]

On 06/07/2020 at 00:42, Lantavian said:

 

Some hobbies are quite active -- playing sports, flying planes, even building model railways.

 

Others are more sedentary -- collecting things is a perfectly acceptable hobby. The enjoyment is very different -- it comes from finding things and organising them. There's the thrill of tracking down items to complete a collection. Saving things from destruction by adding to your collection can also be satisfying. You are creating order in a chaotic world. 

 

For example, collecting first-edition or rare books but not reading them is a bit like what you're doing.

 

But be careful. It sounds like the emotional value of your never-unboxed locos outweighs any practical benefits. And that's one sign, I believe, of becoming a hoarder. So be careful you don't cross the bridge from collection to obsession.

 

 

 

 

I claim immunity from such dangers as collecting  un-read books or unopened model trains because perhaps my initial posts were ambiguous. 

 

I don't collect unopened boxes but recently started to open the one in my original illustration and found myself wondering about the pros and cons of leaving it 'untouched' or 'unopened'.

 

I know that many for sale on Ebay and other sites are in fact unopened, so my assumption is that many are bought and collected in this condition. 

 

I probably will open it sometime soon. For me, box-opening is a worthy pursuit, as is collecting.

 

edit; I find the hunting down of a rare model great fun, too.

Edited July 6, 2020 by robmcg
added comment

[Colin_McLeod]

Bad enough as "box opening" videos can be, I dread to imagine the excitement of a "box not opening" video. 

[PJT]

On 05/07/2020 at 11:12, sncf231e said:

I have never sold a train and have never kept a train in a box.

 

My buying outnumbers my selling by a ratio of about 1000:1, so not dissimilar.  I also keep all my models in plan chests, for easy, accident-free access, so neither they nor the boxes suffer from frequent unboxing.  The boxes are all in warm storage, ready for the fateful day (err - more like fortnight) when I have to box everything up again to move house... or to try to ensure a reasonable resale value for Pam, once I've gone.

[Tim Hall]

If I'm looking on eBay for a particular loco, and I see a "pre owned" but untested one, I'm wary, as it might be faulty, but I would be the one who'd find out, may be years after production. I'm more confident buying a lightly used one. So unopened ones owned by a collector may be better going to another collector as far as I'm concerned.

[PJT]

2 minutes ago, Tim Hall said:

If I'm looking on eBay for a particular loco, and I see a "pre owned" but untested one, I'm wary, as it might be faulty, but I would be the one who'd find out, may be years after production. I'm more confident buying a lightly used one. So unopened ones owned by a collector may be better going to another collector as far as I'm concerned.

 

Good point, especially with models that have become progressively more detailed and intricate in their mechanisms.  Additionally, I often look at 10-20 year old models categorised as 'new' on eBay ('new old stock', actually) and laugh, knowing that a few hours of complete chassis strip-down will probably be required before you can run them because the gears (sometimes) and bearings (often) are siezed with solidified lubricant. 

[Philou]

@PJT Even 'brand new' ones can be victims to a hard layer of gunge - yes I'm looking at you GWR 0-6-0ST.

 

My 'new' would not be 'new' to a collector as they've been taken out of their boxes and run at least once to ensure they do work! Likewise, I've never sold anything - even though I've become more discerning regarding region (though not era) - what was bought, was bought.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Legend]

I buy them to run.  I keep the box to store them while out of use . I have a wide range but tend to cycle over Grouping, BR Steam, transition, Blue then modern image . Not always in that order . the result is that many of my models don't turn a wheel for years .  They are always run when new though, if nothing else to make sure they work.   But this is why the cost of locos /trains is important to me . For instance pondering buying the Hornby APT or Class 800 . £355 + on something that may be out of the box every couple of years .  At least my Rocket is on display.

[DougN]

I am firmly in the purchase to run camp. I even collect Bachman collectors club wagons (my excuse is it stops me collecting too many wagons!) even though I have never been a Bachman collectors club member! However I still run trains with all these wagons in them. 

 

I am also keen keen on removing unbuilt kits from circulation as I like building them too much. I now have a collection of Martin Finney kits that i will slowly build my way through. I have started with V2's and I have 2 at the same completeness! So the unbuilt ones may have gone up or down in value I am really not sure... 

 

any way which ever way you like your models enjoy what you do! 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

There's usually Bachmann Collector's Club wagons for sale on eBay...

 

From those that don't collect them!

 

 

 

[jonny777]

On 04/07/2020 at 22:27, robmcg said:

 

That made me smile. I had a John Mayall Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton original LP which I believe had considerable value by the 1980s.  After the 2011 Christchurch earthquake my house was wrecked and I let a guy who helped me and who collected LPs have a choice of any in my collection. His eyes lit up when he saw it!   

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure John Mayall with Eric Clapton is worth that much, mainly because I have one on vinyl (and also A Hard Road with Peter Green). 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOHN-MAYALL-with-ERIC-CLAPTON-BLUES-BREAKERS-LP-1966/303616030808?hash=item46b0ecf858:g:5f0AAOSwcSZfA2am

 

Currently one bid of 99p. 

 

The mention of Antiques Roadshow (or similar) valuations is that pristine boxed Dinky and Matchbox vehicles sell for decent money precisely because very few people collected them at the time. Most purchasers played with them every day of the week. 

 

If there are really that many current collectors of model railway items, I doubt the investment potential is high, except maybe for limited editions and early rare livery variations. I assume that is why the tissue paper has become so vital, because investors have realised the market for mint/boxed is likely to be saturated and so any tiny extra (such as never opened and undisturbed tissue paper) is the only way their collections might become valuable in the future; but once every collector starts copying that prerequisite? Who knows. 

 

I do collect certain locos and keep them in boxes, but only because I know how my fantasy layout looks and which stock I will need to run it in close to prototype fashion should the opportunity arise. Any smaller layout built prior to the 'big one' (which will probably never materialise) will just use a selection of those locos matched to the size of the layout. However, my locos are only in the boxes for storage purposes. Most of them bear no relation to the appearance of the item as bought, because I have weathered and renumbered them into a well used late 1950s condition.  

 

I am not interested in second hand value, as I have no intention of selling them. What happens after I am gone is in the hands of my descendants, because I will be past caring. 

[DougN]

13 minutes ago, Sarahagain said:

There's usually Bachmann Collector's Club wagons for sale on eBay...

 

From those that don't collect them!

 

 

 

Ok what is this years wagon I am actually interested! 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

At the moment, this one is still in the adverts...

 

 

I haven't found anything else yet...

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Now I've found the Summer 2020 Bachmann Times, I can say that it follows on from the last wagon...

 

It's a Gloucester 10 Ton 7 plank wagon in grey...

 

Due in late summer, being delayed by Covid-19...

 

 

 

[DougN]

Thanks for that. I have managed to secure a 2019 wagon... so I will keep an eye out for the 10 ton version! 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi DougN.

 

No problem.

 

Just for interest, are there any that you haven't got hold of yet?

 

 

 

 

 

[melmerby]

On 05/07/2020 at 00:51, robmcg said:

Or possibly we all wait for this....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-DUBLO-EDL7-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY-N2-0-6-2-Tank-ELECTRIC-2594-good-boxd-c1939/184326625288?hash=item2aeab91808:g:1IQAAOSwK21e7RdI

 

Probably more suited to the Ebay Madness thread, but the point is made.

 

Maybe I'll flood the market with my Hornby Clans.....

Problem with Hornby Dublo is the unstable prices.

At one time the EMU was the most expensive, less so now, same with the E3000, I had a well used one and sold it for £100 (a bit more than the 67/6d I paid for it new), some were going up to £900 mint.

Now the price has reigned back a bit.

 

Maybe not. Still some asking silly prices:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-Dublo-2245-3300HP-ElectricLoco-E3002-2-rail-pantograph-in-original-box/203040360318?hash=item2f4626077e:g:VecAAOSwp0VesG66

Edited July 7, 2020 by melmerby

[JSpencer]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

Problem with Hornby Dublo is the unstable prices.

At one time the EMU was the most expensive, less so now, same with the E3000, I had a well used one and sold it for £100 (a bit more than the 67/6d I paid for it new), some were going up to £900 mint.

Now the price has reigned back a bit.

 

Maybe not. Still some asking silly prices:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-Dublo-2245-3300HP-ElectricLoco-E3002-2-rail-pantograph-in-original-box/203040360318?hash=item2f4626077e:g:VecAAOSwp0VesG66

 

For many years, it was the only RTR EMU out there along with a generic Triang thing. Now we have lots of high end super detail EMUs to choose from. I still have the odd dublo and wrenn item floating around but I don't run them anymore. Indeed all my 80s and most of my 90s items don't get a run anymore. They just look so basic next to modern stuff.