To Collect or To Run Hornby Models? How Many Stay in Boxes?

[The Johnster]

16 hours ago, Sarahagain said:

 

As far as I know, BR brake vans were originally painted either bauxite (brown) for vacuum brake fitted vans, as the Airfix kit made up as per the instructions, or grey for those without vacuum brakes, or through pipes for vacuum brakes.

(Wearing pedant's hat) Not quite, Sarah.  Very few BR standard brake vans were actually fitted with vacuum brakes, and the majority were piped through and painted bauxite, as was the normal livery for wagons or vans with through pipes.  Apart from the lack of vacuum cylinders, a way to distinguish between fitted and piped vehicles was that the pipes were painted red for fitted vehicles and white for piped ones.  You are correct in stating that vans without vacuum brakes or vacuum pipes were painted grey.

 

There is little need to have vacuum brakes on a brake van, as in service it contains a guard who can operate the handbrake.  A fully fitted train may consist of entirely vacuum fitted vehicles except for the brake van.

 

[Guardian]

On 04/07/2020 at 00:50, robmcg said:

I this a perfectly valid hobby?  To buy models and never take them out of their boxes? 

 

Hi All

 

Firstly, all my models need to run perfectly. I had to realise that some models of some manufacturers tend to wobble due to not properly centered wheels, some have other quality and manufacturing issues. As the vendors liability expires after six months/two years, I deem necessary to check the quality of every newly received model in any respect. According to my experience, roughly every third model has manufacturing issues, and to get these sorted, most of them need to be returned to the vendor.

 

As older models need to be acquired second hand or via eBay (as they are only available there), I only buy these from sellers providing a liability. And I never buy models offered as "untouched" or only showing the model in its box as you never know if the vendor ever has tested and run the model before.

 

Secondly, according to my experience, models loose value once new technical or optical standards have become common, in particular after an advanced model of the same type has been introduced (if the new model is not worse than the old one). 

 

Cheers

Mark

 

 

[Philou]

16 hours ago, Sarahagain said:

Will you be using the supplied moulded load, or making your own?

 

Hi Sarah,

 

I'm going to have a bash at making my own - I've got a ton of polystyrene off-cuts that are begging to be used and though I've not access to coal, I do have plenty of charcoal that is quite friable and breaks up in sizes from lumps to dust (the dust I can simulate MGR loads that also require doing). I understand that the 16Ts were also used for the transport of sand and other minerals (plus pit props).

 

Do you make your own?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

PS: I had a quick look at your site - nice station that looks even better in natural light!

[The Johnster]

I'm not sure that the thread title is entirely adequate to cover this subject; I am sure many models made by other manufacturers never get taken out of the box either.  Apart from the hobby aspect (collecting is a perfectly valid hobby, just one that I have no interest whatsoever in), there are things to consider about leaving models in boxes.  Firstly, if they are displayed, light will eventually fade the printing and colour on the box, and in extreme cases sunlight will focus heat on areas of the model because of the lens effect of the clear packaging will fade or warp the inner packaging or the model itself.  

 

Secondly, RTR models these days are packed with coloured grease lubricant, which has a 'shelf life' and will eventually become the opposite of lubricant (seizeupicant?), but not in a way that is predictable; sometimes many years, sometimes a few months.  This is, I am sure, one of the main reasons for the frequent 'loco won't go, brand new never been out of box' posts asking for help, but never stating that the 'brand new' loco might well be 20 years old.  'NIB' models on 'Bay may be problematic in this respect, and you sometimes see examples of models described (maybe even truthfully) as NIB, in perfect condition, never run, mint etc that you know from the model or the packaging have not been in production in that form or to that tooling for many years.  My favourites are those claimed to be NIB or MIB which are photographed 'OOB' or even pulling trains on layouts!

 

Thirdly, magnets lose magnetism over time, rendering the model well below spec for power output.  I am suspicious as well of plastic spur gears , or axle muffs on old Mainline type (including Replica and early Bachmann) locos, as plastic may go stiff or brittle over time and not be up to spec performance.  

 

I am of the opinion that 'new in box', 'mint in box' 'as new never used' etc are terms only of use to collectors who wish to retain items in this condition; they are meaningless to modellers or anyone who wants to use the models on a layout or train set.  Indeed they are difficult meanings to pin down anyway; even a 'brand new' model may have been on shelves or in storage for some time, and the Hornby 61xx I saw yesterday for the first time in Antics window has been in existence for several weeks.  Should we restrict the term 'new' to items directly off the assembly plant line in China?

 

New, in my mind, means or should mean bought as a new item from an outlet licensed to trade and covered by warranty and trading regs from the time of point of sale, and nothing else ever.  I will try to avoid referring to my famous Bachmann 94xx as new except in posts within a few minutes of my buying it, which will be several days before I am actually in possession of it, point of purchase being when Rails of Sheffield take money from my bank account as I have authorised them to do by pre-ordering. the loco can no longer be described as new after that!

 

'As new' and so forth is different, an indication that, to the occasionally honest let's give 'em the benefit of the doubt best of the vendor's knowledge, the item is in the same condition as it was when it was new.  Our vendor is, if he is honest, assuming that as he knows nobody has had any physical interaction with the model or it's container, this is the case.  Entropy demands that this cannot be the case as long as the universe continues to expand; the item's molecules are further apart than they were when it was new and it will eventually crumble into the dust that awaits us all from whence we all ultimately originated (we are all stardust, not a happy thought when you consider that this means that we are the polluted radioactive products of dead stars), but it is a reasonable term to be used in selling second hand stuff...

 

Use of language is critical in selling technique, and the trick for the vendor is to describe an item honestly but give the impression that it is better than it is, and the trick for the vendee is caveat emptor, as there is a perfectly legitimate area of wobble room that allows this under the umbrella of 'in good faith'.  Same goes for politicians and estate agents of course, and modellers being quizzed by SWMBOs about how much it cost or where it came from.

 

Not using a model has very little advantage in preserving it's condition over using it with reasonable care and general maintenance within the manufacturers' specifications.  But in a secondhand market, unless you know and/or have reason to trust the seller, you cannot guarantee that this has been the case, neither can you guarantee that this has been the case even when you know and/or have reason to trust the vendor but he has himself originally acquired the item from a source that he cannot provenance (fishing village in Cornwall, isn't it?).  There is a perception that a model is more likely to deteriorate over time with use than in storage, but, especially if the storage has not been in environmentally controlled conditions, the difference may be a lot less than one might assume!

[Ruffnut Thorston]

6 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Hi Sarah,

 

I'm going to have a bash at making my own - I've got a ton of polystyrene off-cuts that are begging to be used and though I've not access to coal, I do have plenty of charcoal that is quite friable and breaks up in sizes from lumps to dust (the dust I can simulate MGR loads that also require doing). I understand that the 16Ts were also used for the transport of sand and other minerals (plus pit props).

 

Do you make your own?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

PS: I had a quick look at your site - nice station that looks even better in natural light!

 

 

Hi Philip.

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

Yes, I do intend to mainly make my own wagon loads.

 

It's one sure way of making them fit.

 

We've got all sorts of stuff lined up, including some shot blasting Compound, that makes really good shiny small coal...

 

Better not stray any further off this topic though!