KR Models announce the Clayton DHP1

[stewartingram]

And the LNER shunters 15001-4 (2 types).

 

Stewart

[jessy1692]

Ive got one!

 

Well i would never have though DHP1 would get picked up for rtr, i know its only eoi stage but it will be interesting how many people will want one. Truly the rarest of all prototypes. 

Good luck to KR, i have a Fell on order and im tempted to upgrade my GT3 to a KR one..think ill pass on DHP1 as im rather fond on mine

Cheers

James

 

[ColinK]

On 04/07/2020 at 23:17, russ p said:

Whilst I admire KR models for doing  DHP1 can't help thinking it could be a financial disaster for them 

Hardly any one has heard of it and it ran literally a handful of times on the mainline 

Surely a better return on investment would be do a high quality model of something like a 31 a loco that has a reasonable model on the market but has issues the same as Phil sutton has done with 24s and 25s

I understand the point being made, but think the reverse is more likely.  Make a 31 or some other common loco and the manufacturer has to spend a great deal of money while facing competition from other manufacturers, making it a risky investment.  I can’t see anyone else bringing out a competing model of DHP1.

 

I certainly will buy one, but I wonder what it will look like in BR blue with full yellow ends?

[Opelsi]

EOI from me yesterday.

Another one of the 'weird & wonderful bunch' for my Railway Museum will look great parked in a siding of 'oddballs' awaiting an occasional outing. It might work an enthusiasts brake van special now and again.

Hoping the headcode will be changeable?

Trust this progresses to completion

Best of luck KR!

 

[Legend]

It does puzzle me how something like this can be viable . I suppose its so out of the ordinary that people want one , and lets face it its hardly likely to be produced by anyone else .  I've vague recollections of reading about this in maybe something like the old "Rail Enthusiast" but had certainly long since forgotten about it . Did it even get out the factory?

 

Just seems strange devoting effort to this when there are things like, say a Glasgow Blue Train , with several nice liveries that despite being geographically limited would be a nice model to own , that don't seem to be considered for production.  Even my much desired Swindon 126 must have a larger following than this !

 

However looks like KR have found a niche , even beyond Heljan territory  . Good luck to them in their endeavours.

[jessy1692]

50 minutes ago, Legend said:

It does puzzle me how something like this can be viable . I suppose its so out of the ordinary that people want one , and lets face it its hardly likely to be produced by anyone else .  I've vague recollections of reading about this in maybe something like the old "Rail Enthusiast" but had certainly long since forgotten about it . Did it even get out the factory?

 

Just seems strange devoting effort to this when there are things like, say a Glasgow Blue Train , with several nice liveries that despite being geographically limited would be a nice model to own , that don't seem to be considered for production.  Even my much desired Swindon 126 must have a larger following than this !

 

However looks like KR have found a niche , even beyond Heljan territory  . Good luck to them in their endeavours.

It did indeed get out of the factory, all be it not very often. I wrote up some details when i built mine 5 years ago..cant believe it was that long now!:

 

Heres a little potted history of DHP1, mostly cribbed from an article in May's issue of Railways Illustrated and also Modern Locomotives Illustrated (prototype issue)

DHP1 was a joint venture between Rolls Royce and Clayton, built primarily to test Rolls Royce engines & hydraulic converters.

 

It was an extremely complicated design, with 4 375hp engines, 4 torque converters, 2 gearboxes, one forward/reverse gearboxs al from RR and aparntly also 4 David Brown gear boxes. If it sounds a bit bit familiar, a certain Colonel Fell was involved in the development after the demise of his 10100, probably in the hope that Hydraulic transmission might be a bit better than the mechanical transmission in 10100.

 

Claytons received the order from RR on Jan 10th 1961, DHP1 was assembled at Clayton's Hatton works alongside production 17's, well not quite apparantly the workshops were full so it was built in a purose built shed at the rear of the main workshops. DHP1 was completed in June 63 and was rolled out for pictures in its striking red & cream livery, link to a pic on flikr, theres very few pics on the web, most of the pics i have are scanned from mags but obviously i cant post here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/8144216138

 

Testing started in July 63 when a few liht engine moves took place on BR betwen Tutbury & Stretton Junction, accesed directly from Clayton's yard, Loaded runs were made with freight stock on the line from Uttoxeter to Leeks in the Winter of 63 & 64. Pictures have been published for what looks like the first time of DHP1 with passenger stock on the Leek line in Railways Illustrated, again there are precious few images i can find with gogle image search.

 

Final trials ended on March 10th 1964, with the loco only clocking up 450 miles it was stored in Clayton's yard.

 

The final working on BR saw it move from Hatton to International Combustion (Clayton's parent company) in Derby when their own works shunter failed, it was needed as International Combustion were busy with the 10 'Cuban 47' order so a shunter was required desparately. DHP1 was made ready an moved under its own power over BR to Derby, heres a link to a few pics of it in Derby with the Cuban 47's and the last couple of Claytons being fitted with RR engines

http://www.class47.co.uk/UIH/uih_v32.php?icb=0829050006200|f|0|wm_0|1|||j|

http://www.railphotoarchive.org/UIH/uih_v32.php?icb=0146020007000|f||wm_0|6|||j|0|

http://www.class47.co.uk/UIH/uih_v32.php?icb=0829050010200|f|0|wm_0|2|||j|

 

After the works shunter was repaired, DHP1 was stored and on April 12th 1966 the order came for it to be scrapped, the engines went back to RR and other equipmnt returned to Clayton and the rest was broken up for scrap, and that was the end f DHP1

http://www.railphotoarchive.org/UIH/uih_v32.php?icb=0146020016000|f||wm_0|6|||j|0|

[The Stationmaster]

56 minutes ago, Legend said:

It does puzzle me how something like this can be viable . I suppose its so out of the ordinary that people want one , and lets face it its hardly likely to be produced by anyone else .  I've vague recollections of reading about this in maybe something like the old "Rail Enthusiast" but had certainly long since forgotten about it . Did it even get out the factory?

 

Just seems strange devoting effort to this when there are things like, say a Glasgow Blue Train , with several nice liveries that despite being geographically limited would be a nice model to own , that don't seem to be considered for production.  Even my much desired Swindon 126 must have a larger following than this !

 

However looks like KR have found a niche , even beyond Heljan territory  . Good luck to them in their endeavours.

As ever it will come down to the numbers game.  Provided KR get sufficient interest and those EOIs hold and they can sell enough to make the project viable (and profitable) then it's runner.  If the numbers don't match up then it's not a runner  - so very much in the same sort of way as Rapido where they float a project but only proceed if they know it will wash its face financially.   I'm not at all sure, especially in the emerging UK economic situation, if the disposable income will be there - even if the demand theoretically exists - to buy 1,000+ models of things which had a very limited lifespan and even more limited fields of occasional operation.  

 

The guide inevitably is the extent to which these 'rarity' locos have not only sold in the past but how they will sell in the future especially when you consider research and promotional money has to be spent before the viability of the project is really known.    Don't forget that, once it reopens, research into drawings at the NRM is not only a time consuming business but can be quite pricey for anyone who needs to buy copies of drawings at the prices the NRM charge.    Equally many of us have already withdrawn, or largely withdrawn, from the 'I'll have one of those because it's different market' and that withdrawal started in the wake of an economic decline which was a mere breeze compared with what is zooming up over the near horizon.  But provided a concern can make money on selling that 1,000+ models they can probably still hang in there while others have fallen by the wayside.

 

In addition the availability of 'niche subjects' is a shrinking area with not much now left from the non-steam post-war era apart from one early mainline diesel,  a gas turbine loco. various diesel shunters,  and some overhead electric locos.  That apart there are of course any number of as yet 'untouched' EMUs and DMUs which obviously involve a lot of research and far greater development and tooling costs which means higher prices and those in turn reduce marketability although some score high marks in wishlists.   Additionally there are already manufacturers, and several well established commissioners, in this market area so it isn't exactly devoid of competition and some of them might already be well ahead developing models which KR might one day have turned their attention towards.

 

Maybe KR can pull it off, and for their sakes I hope they do.  But I do still wonder about the 'oddities' market and how viable it will be in the coming financial situation when disposable income will start to be squeezed and people might wish to concentrate on more mainstream models they need for their layouts - time will tell.

 

[adb968008]

13 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

As

Maybe KR can pull it off, and for their sakes I hope they do.  But I do still wonder about the 'oddities' market and how viable it will be in the coming financial situation when disposable income will start to be squeezed and people might wish to concentrate on more mainstream models they need for their layouts - time will tell.

 

Like what ?

When it comes to diesels, with the arrival of a class 29, every mainstream mainline diesel class has been done. Just about all the mainstream tender engine classes for the 1960’s period has been done too.

 

The future of BR era OO is oddities, tank engines / shunters, units or retools.

 

Those who saw the KR Models video would have seen the DHP1 bodyshell already produced.

Edited July 8, 2020 by adb968008

[jessy1692]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Like what ?

When it comes to diesels, with the arrival of a class 29, every mainstream mainline diesel class has been done. Just about all the mainstream tender engine classes for the 1960’s period has been done too.

 

The future of BR era OO is oddities, tank engines / shunters, units or retools.

 

Those who saw the KR Models video would have seen the DHP1 bodyshell already produced.

Ooo must have missed that video, the latest email news update has tooling of the Fell in some kind of red colour, could it be that?

Cheers

James

[Legend]

28 minutes ago, jessy1692 said:

Ooo must have missed that video, the latest email news update has tooling of the Fell in some kind of red colour, could it be that?

Cheers

James

 

It was in the weekend virtual exhibition , James . Andy has interview with KR models which is very good . In it I think Keith  shows the body for this loco .

 

I must admit initially I was very cynical about KR models , especially as it was around the time of  DJM fiasco , but they do appear to be very competent outfit.  I was wrong . So I hope they go on to make something that's on my wants list .

[jessy1692]

2 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

It was in the weekend virtual exhibition , James . Andy has interview with KR models which is very good . In it I think Keith  shows the body for this loco .

 

I must admit initially I was very cynical about KR models , especially as it was around the time of  DJM fiasco , but they do appear to be very competent outfit.  I was wrong . So I hope they go on to make something that's on my wants list .

Thanks Legend, i did mean to check out the virtual exhibition as it looked very good idea but other things got in the way frustratingly.

 

I too was a little sceptical like you say after DJ went down, but they have proved to me with GT3 things look healthy and as soon as the Fell was announced i signed up and have one on order. Just put my eoi in today for the GT3 second run to upgrade my now ageing version. Keen to see how DHP1 fares too but ill stick with mine for now.

Cheers

James

[AY Mod]

 

DHP1 from 23 mins in.

[chris p bacon]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Those who saw the KR Models video would have seen the DHP1 bodyshell already produced.

 

It's a 3D print used to check the CAD.

[jessy1692]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

DHP1 from 23 mins in.

Very interesting, thanks for posting the clip Andy, body looks fantastic. All credit to KR, hope it takes off.

Cheers

James

[HonestTom]

I will say that I think getting EOIs beforehand is probably the sensible way to go. This is a pretty obscure prototype, but I think it could sell for the novelty value. Plus I daresay plenty of people will find an excuse to have one "on trial" in all sorts of unlikely geographical locations.

I

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 10:18, Legend said:

It does puzzle me how something like this can be viable . I suppose its so out of the ordinary that people want one , and lets face it its hardly likely to be produced by anyone else .  I've vague recollections of reading about this in maybe something like the old "Rail Enthusiast" but had certainly long since forgotten about it . Did it even get out the factory?

 

Just seems strange devoting effort to this when there are things like, say a Glasgow Blue Train , with several nice liveries that despite being geographically limited would be a nice model to own , that don't seem to be considered for production.  Even my much desired Swindon 126 must have a larger following than this !

 

However looks like KR have found a niche , even beyond Heljan territory  . Good luck to them in their endeavours.

 

Obviously I can't speak for KR, but I would imagine the difficulty with units is that you're tooling up for several models rather than just one. That being said, there are several units I'd certainly go for if they were available...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 05:19, Vixen said:

 firebox flicker on the Leader?

That is inside out of sight. What this subject requires is an incandescent fireman hanging out the door.

19 hours ago, adb968008 said:

... Just about all the mainstream tender engine classes for the 1960’s period have been done too...

There are a good dozen tender loco classes operational in 1960 in numbers greater than the average 'numerous' BR(SR) tender loco class with a RTR model, so a little way to go yet before the well is exhausted, and only the wildly unusual qualifies. (I am surprised that a crane loco has yet to be announced.)

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

That is inside out of sight. What this subject requires is an incandescent fireman hanging out the door.

There are a good dozen tender loco classes operational in 1960 in numbers greater than the average 'numerous' BR(SR) tender loco class with a RTR model, so a little way to go yet before the well is exhausted, and only the wildly unusual qualifies. (I am surprised that a crane loco has yet to be announced.)

A quick count from the 1961 Combined Volume, without going into visually noticeable variants (such as those among the B16s) it comes to around 3 dozen tender engine classes.  I didn't bother to count all the tank engines but for the Southern alone there are half a dozen quite a few of which would count as 'niche'.

[JSpencer]

On 07/07/2020 at 13:23, The Stationmaster said:

Maybe KR can pull it off, and for their sakes I hope they do.  But I do still wonder about the 'oddities' market and how viable it will be in the coming financial situation when disposable income will start to be squeezed and people might wish to concentrate on more mainstream models they need for their layouts - time will tell.

 

 

I generally agree. I see on the leader thread that people talk about Bulleid's SR electrics. As much as I would like to see them done, we will be quickly saturated with EOIs forcing people to pic'n'choose or at best diluting to sales to one of each. I'll buy 2 Leaders if it pops out in a year when there sweet FA for my period/region coming out in that given year but currently I'm swamped with stuff that people have announced (terriers popping out right now, a HAP in a month or so time, the D class, 2 new class 33s.....) . Only a month ago "Caroline" was announced for example. So my Leader will be just one.

For the past 2 years, I've been thinking about a 3rd Bulleid diesel but it is more a nice to have..... Sorry I have to keep my plans rational otherwise I just end up with 100s of models sitting in boxes and going stiff.

As for mainline items, I think I'll have my fill once the D class appears (a mainline express loco for the south eastern), but obviously there are plenty of locos out there I'll buy in 1s if someone did it.

The post Covid world will see quite some austerity and too many products will equal diluted sales rather than increased sales when in  a boom period. 

 

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

A quick count from the 1961 Combined Volume, without going into visually noticeable variants (such as those among the B16s) it comes to around 3 dozen tender engine classes.  I didn't bother to count all the tank engines but for the Southern alone there are half a dozen quite a few of which would count as 'niche'.

My inbox is littered every week with special offers of little black tender engines in special offer.

Just because they exist, doesnt make them popular.

A little black 0-6-0 goods is much of a muchness.

 

Two pages in, and instead of respecting KRs decision to make this model, people are complaining they haven't made their particular pet favourite...

can I suggest those wanting xyz 0-6-0 contact this website and start their own enquiries...

 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/OEM-customize-railway-train-supplier-plastic_60676831417.html?spm=a2700.gallery_search_cps.normalList.30.24de2f1cOAiHy1
 

let DHP 1 develop.

Some of us think this is a really interesting, probably the most extreme remotest of Diesel prototypes ever made... 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by adb968008

[dibber25]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

Some of us think this is a really interesting, probably the most extreme remotest of Diesel prototypes ever made... 

 

 

But there cannot possibly be enough of you to make it commercially viable, never mind commercially successful, which is very different from liking it and wanting a model of it. (CJL)

 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

But there cannot possibly be enough of you to make it commercially viable, never mind commercially successful, which is very different from liking it and wanting a model of it. (CJL)

 

 

....... oh, I dunno; Roco managed to sell a model of a steam loco that never existed!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

But there cannot possibly be enough of you to make it commercially viable, never mind commercially successful, which is very different from liking it and wanting a model of it. (CJL)

 

Before saying “I told you so”, it’s usual to wait for the event that allows you to proclaim it.

 

Let the EOIs decide perhaps ?

 

[maico]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

....... oh, I dunno; Roco managed to sell a model of a steam loco that never existed!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Which one was that?

 

Way back In issue 19 of Hornby Magazine, Locomotion announced a run of 2000 Bulleid Leaders in 4 liveries. AFAIK that was the minium viable number for Dapol to  produce it. Not enough firm orders were placed and that was that.

[AY Mod]

8 minutes ago, maico said:

Locomotion announced a run of 2000 Bulleid Leaders in 4 liveries.

 

Locomotion did no such thing. It was a half-cocked announcement from someone down south who then disappeared south-west.

[maico]

Should read Loconotion http://www.loconotion.co.uk/page_1227896732286.html