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KR Models announce the Clayton DHP1

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1 hour ago, maico said:

 

Which one was that?

 

Way back In issue 19 of Hornby Magazine, Locomotion announced a run of 2000 Bulleid Leaders in 4 liveries. AFAIK that was the minium viable number for Dapol to  produce it. Not enough firm orders were placed and that was that.

 

Some huge articulated freight loco proposed, I think, by the Third Reich - I'm not too au fait with Continental model railways, but I remember seeing it reviewed in, I believe, Continental Modeller.

 

John Isherwood.

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19 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Some huge articulated freight loco proposed, I think, by the Third Reich - I'm not too au fait with Continental model railways, but I remember seeing it reviewed in, I believe, Continental Modeller.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Ah, the DR 53 derailed by the war http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/DR-Baureihe_53_(Entwurf)

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If it's the loco I think it was, I saw it in a model shop in Kehl next to Strasbourg (couldn't get a close look as it was Sunday and the shop was shut) a couple of years ago. It was a  2-6-8-0 BR 53 Class loco done in camouflage colouring and made by Maerklin. Looked expensive!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Locomotion did no such thing. It was a half-cocked announcement from someone down south who then disappeared south-west.

 

50 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Locomotion != Loconotion

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Before saying “I told you so”, it’s usual to wait for the event that allows you to proclaim it.

 

Let the EOIs decide perhaps ?

 

Did I say "I told you so?" I can't see where I said that. Are you putting words in my mouth? Expressions of Interest don't make anything viable. (CJL)

Edited by dibber25
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2 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Did I say "I told you so?" I can't see where I said that.

 

No - but "... there cannot possibly be enough of you to make it commercially viable ... " was pretty dismissive.

 

Like all off-beat projects, it will sink or swim on the support of prospective purchasers; I certainly wouldn't want to predict the outcome.

 

... or perhaps you have some market research that we are not party to?

 

John Isherwood.

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2 hours ago, maico said:

Way back In issue 19 of Hornby Magazine, Locomotion announced a run of 2000 Bulleid Leaders in 4 liveries. AFAIK that was the minium viable number for Dapol to  produce it. Not enough firm orders were placed and that was that.

 

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

Locomotion did no such thing. It was a half-cocked announcement from someone down south who then disappeared south-west.

 

Actually, the owner of Loconotion (my nearest model shop at the time - a very small but enthusiastically run business that was well supported by us locals) had a wife whose chronic illness greatly deteriorated without warning to the point where he decided to close the business immediately to become her full-time carer.  That happened only a couple of months after the Loconotion Leader project was launched and finished it off conclusively before it even started to succeed or fail in its own right.

 

I readily concede that my opinion at the time of launch was that the project would probably fizzle out, for one or two reasons.  I was however quite impressed to see only a month after the launch that the record of expressions of interest/tentative orders had amassed well over five or six hundred names and addresses in it.

 

Pete T.

 

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7 hours ago, dibber25 said:

But there cannot possibly be enough of you to make it commercially viable, never mind commercially successful, which is very different from liking it and wanting a model of it. (CJL)

 

People told us that the GT3 wouldn't be commercially viable either, and yet it is in production as we speak now.

 

People told us we were fools to take on the Fell too, no one would buy such an ugly beast. Alas, that is now being tooled now.

 

We aren't as stupid as my father looks. If the interest is there, then the EOI will show that. If there isnt, then there isnt and we haven't lost much.

 

- Michael

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8 minutes ago, PJT said:

 

Actually, the owner of Loconotion (my nearest model shop at the time - a very small but enthusiastically run business that was well supported by us locals) had a wife whose chronic illness greatly deteriorated without warning to the point where he decided to close the business immediately to become her full-time carer.  That happened only a couple of months after the Loconotion Leader project was launched and finished it off conclusively before it even started to succeed or fail in its own right.

 

I readily concede that my opinion at the time of launch was that the project would probably fizzle out, for one or two reasons.  I was however quite impressed to see only a month after the launch that the record of expressions of interest/tentative orders had amassed well over five or six hundred names and addresses in it.

 

Pete T.

 

Loconotion was also my local model shop, as you say it was a brilliant little shop and spent quite a bit over the years when I was younger. It was sad when it closed but it was obviously for good reason. 

 

At the time it was advertised in Hornby magazine which might explain the high take up in expressions. I'd heard it wasn't actually the owner that started the Leader project but one of his helpers, true or not I don't know. 

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1 minute ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I'd heard it wasn't actually the owner that started the Leader project but one of his helpers, true or not I don't know.

 

Absolutely right.  I was going to say that in my previous post but thought it was superfluous detail.  Loconotion backed the project, but it was the 'helper' who actually started it and ran it.

 

Pete T.

 

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On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 00:58, adb968008 said:

When it comes to diesels, with the arrival of a class 29, every mainstream mainline diesel class has been done.

Just about all the mainstream tender engine classes for the 1960’s period has been done too.

The future of BR era OO is oddities, tank engines / shunters, units or retools.

So you are the one who raised the subject, and then:

23 hours ago, adb968008 said:

My inbox is littered every week with special offers of little black tender engines in special offer.

Just because they exist, doesnt make them popular.

A little black 0-6-0 goods is much of a muchness.

Two pages in, and instead of respecting KRs decision to make this model, people are complaining they haven't made their particular pet favourite...

can I suggest those wanting xyz 0-6-0 contact this website and start their own enquiries...

Don't comment on what I posted

 

Make your mind up, oh mighty thread editor manqué.

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9 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

'The gun may have been waved but not fired'.  Yes, Andy, of course you're right.  And I do remember the bad press and flinching at the time as I read it. 

 

However the owner and his shop Loconotion had a very good reputation, up to the gun-waving incident, as most if not all us customers of the shop would testify.  He was a good guy and a genuine one and I didn't like the idea of people reading the posts in this thread and drawing the conclusion he was some sort of fly-by-night, here-today, gone-tomorrow sort of character.  He wasn't.  I think we could all agree he made a very foolish decision, maybe understandable given the distraction of his personal circumstances (ok, that's just a hunch), in allowing the name of his business to head up a project that was instigated and run by someone else who was not connected to Loconotion other than being an unofficial part-time helper in the shop.  If the Loconotion shop hadn't shut suddenly because of the owner's choice to care for his wife full-time, I'm sure the owner would subsequently have struggled to sort out the PR mess brought about by his dreamy-eyed enthusiastic amateur of a helper, who formed my main reason I thought the project would fizzle out (I didn't express an interest and certainly wouldn't have put money into it).  But, that impending PR mess certainly wasn't the reason the business closed or 'disappeared'.

 

Pete T.

 

 

     

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1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

History revision notes for Loconotion...

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46058-will-hell-freeze-over-before-anyone-does-a-Bulleid-leader-class/&do=findComment&comment=791770

 

I stand by the half-cocked comment as the gun may have been waved but not fired.

 

Interesting reading.

 

 something I noted in the quoted post is that what was seen as a warning then,  is now becoming the norm.

 

Quote

 

I'd certainly steer clear. In their own words:

 

  Quote 

Loconotion Models is a small family run model shop, and as such is in no position to finance such a model in advance.

 

 

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On 08/07/2020 at 14:41, jessy1692 said:

Very interesting, thanks for posting the clip Andy, body looks fantastic.


Maybe he's been working out, but you'll make Andy blush .......   :-)

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

So you are the one who raised the subject, and then:. 

 

Make your mind up, oh mighty thread editor manqué.

Oh what a jolly joyous thread this is.
 

I am a supporter with an EOI in..

in other words a proud want to be customer so Mandy Rice Davies Applies...

 

 

One reason people might not put this on their wish lists, is because so few knew it existed. However, if like myself, when I learned of its existence a number of years back, people think “well whats that”, and became intrigued to learn more, its desirability grows on you.

 

It is quite a secretive little engine, its a strange design.

Its usage for shunting Cuban class 47’s being not so secretly built in Derby is fascinating.
That its built with Truck / DMU engines is fascinating.

That the chance to make class 17’s more reliable was missed to DHP1’s design issues is fascinating.

 

its a good old fashioned proof of concept that died a dead end.. anyone with one on an exhibition layout will certainly generate a substantial number of Interest questions.

 

it may surprise people but this kind of research still goes on today, the 2020 equivalent is probably the class 19 that is trundling around Bo'ness, history is yet to judge if it that one will be successful or not yet or where such research leads... I wonder how long it is before someone makes a first kit model of it.

 

if it doesn't work, I can certainly suggest to KRModels a very viable commercial plan B for DHP1... offer to sell to the EOIs a 3D printed body from the CADs instead. I’m sure the naysayers will have something to say about that too.

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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I'm really pleased KR Models have been offering all these different, unusual models.

 

DHP1 (and the Bulleid Leader) are only EOI's at present, so there's no commitment to buy nor manufacture, keeping risks down on both sides.  GT3 and the Fell are in production/tooling, so something good to look forward to already from these people.

 

What really pleases me is the wide choice of experimental/low member classes of diesel, electric, hydraulic, gas-turbine and steam that we are either provided or can project interests for nowadays.  Ever since Heljan brought out Falcon, my dream of a cabinet with all the experimental locos moves ever closer to fruition...  I keep thinking I need to line them all up for a photo but then... someone announces another, so I delay!

 

Well done KR Models and I hope the whole project is a success for this model and all the others across your range of 'We dare to build'!

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20 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

No - but "... there cannot possibly be enough of you to make it commercially viable ... " was pretty dismissive.

 

Like all off-beat projects, it will sink or swim on the support of prospective purchasers; I certainly wouldn't want to predict the outcome.

 

... or perhaps you have some market research that we are not party to?

 

John Isherwood.

No, John, I don't have any market research regarding any of these obscure locomotives but I have sat in on meetings for the past 15 years looking at what might be viable subjects for ready-to-run models. For one thing, unless your selling price is very high (and modellers don't generally like very high prices) you need a lot more than a 1,000 run to make a project viable, never mind profitable, at an affordable price. That means a loco that is likely to have broad appeal. I tried for many years to get someone, anyone, to produce 18000 in ready-to-run, and others have finally succeeded. But I know that when I proposed it there were always grave doubts about getting the numbers to make it viable. And this was a loco that did a fair bit of running and was something of a 1950s WR icon. It also had three liveries, so a production run could be sliced up to suit individual tastes. But just because I liked it and I thought it was great and I wanted a model of it, didn't make it stack up as a surefire viable project. I hope DHP1 stacks up for KRM, but I am allowed to have my doubts, and to express them. (CJL)

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1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

No, John, I don't have any market research regarding any of these obscure locomotives but I have sat in on meetings for the past 15 years looking at what might be viable subjects for ready-to-run models. For one thing, unless your selling price is very high (and modellers don't generally like very high prices) you need a lot more than a 1,000 run to make a project viable, never mind profitable, at an affordable price. That means a loco that is likely to have broad appeal. I tried for many years to get someone, anyone, to produce 18000 in ready-to-run, and others have finally succeeded. But I know that when I proposed it there were always grave doubts about getting the numbers to make it viable. And this was a loco that did a fair bit of running and was something of a 1950s WR icon. It also had three liveries, so a production run could be sliced up to suit individual tastes. But just because I liked it and I thought it was great and I wanted a model of it, didn't make it stack up as a surefire viable project. I hope DHP1 stacks up for KRM, but I am allowed to have my doubts, and to express them. (CJL)

 

Accepted - but it was the blunt, dismissive character of your doubts expressed that grated.

 

John Isherwood.

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On 11/07/2020 at 01:27, adb968008 said:

Oh what a jolly joyous thread this is.
 

I am a supporter with an EOI in..

in other words a proud want to be customer so Mandy Rice Davies Applies...

 

 

One reason people might not put this on their wish lists, is because so few knew it existed. However, if like myself, when I learned of its existence a number of years back, people think “well whats that”, and became intrigued to learn more, its desirability grows on you.

 

It is quite a secretive little engine, its a strange design.

Its usage for shunting Cuban class 47’s being not so secretly built in Derby is fascinating.
That its built with Truck / DMU engines is fascinating.

That the chance to make class 17’s more reliable was missed to DHP1’s design issues is fascinating.

 

its a good old fashioned proof of concept that died a dead end.. anyone with one on an exhibition layout will certainly generate a substantial number of Interest questions.

 

it may surprise people but this kind of research still goes on today, the 2020 equivalent is probably the class 19 that is trundling around Bo'ness, history is yet to judge if it that one will be successful or not yet or where such research leads... I wonder how long it is before someone makes a first kit model of it.

 

if it doesn't work, I can certainly suggest to KRModels a very viable commercial plan B for DHP1... offer to sell to the EOIs a 3D printed body from the CADs instead. I’m sure the naysayers will have something to say about that too.

 

 

 

 

The last paragraph here is a great idea! Obviously I would prefer that the magic number were reached for a RTR model, but if not, I would certainly go for a 3D print.

 

A doubly good idea inasmuch that KR Models need not hold any stock or invest any more than they have as we have seen a print in the interview. So just a case of print to order.

 

As for the Class 19, there is one slowly taking shape on my workbench!

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 04/07/2020 at 19:14, ColinK said:


 

Like these?
 

6542C6BF-5844-4598-9994-6784FF4E8DB5.jpeg.745596285c97671939dc2ce6db607d9e.jpeg

 

Yes! But in green and RTR

Edited by D9001

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On 06/07/2020 at 07:16, jessy1692 said:

post-5804-0-99179800-1444344028.jpg.7cf4e2753321617ca57ef19ee59446fb.jpgpost-5804-0-33681500-1444344036.jpg.108108f0125f2cbc2c17d2e0e395c771.jpg

Ive got one!

 

Well i would never have though DHP1 would get picked up for rtr, i know its only eoi stage but it will be interesting how many people will want one. Truly the rarest of all prototypes. 

Good luck to KR, i have a Fell on order and im tempted to upgrade my GT3 to a KR one..think ill pass on DHP1 as im rather fond on mine

Cheers

James

 

I’m not surprised, it looks truly excellent!

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If KR fancy doing another quirky ”heroic failure” I would love to see them do the Bristol/ECW railbus.....

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I've got a partly built NNK (ex MTK) kit partially built!

 

Stewart

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25 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

I've got a partly built NNK (ex MTK) kit partially built!

 

Stewart

 

Does it bear any resemblance to a Bristol / ECW railbus?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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