KR Models announce the Bulleid Leader

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2 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The great irony is that with a heavy centre motor all wheel drive mechanism inside, it has the potential to be the best performing RTR OO UK steam model on the market.

Wouldn’t that be ironic... an M7 replacement steam loco with better haulage than a Hattons 66 or a Heljan DPU !

[Graham_Muz]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Wouldn’t that be ironic... an M7 replacement steam loco

It’s a common often repeated myth, Bulleid In fact stated that they were “have the same route availability of the M7” rather than be a replacement for them which is a subtle difference. It had however been reported that some of the funding for the Leader may have been redirected for that perhaps earmarked for tank engine replacements, which may also have been origin of the M7 replacement myth

Edited July 5, 2020 by Graham_Muz

[Mel_H]

7 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

It’s a common often repeated myth, Bulleid In fact stated that they were “have the same route availability of the M7” rather than be a replacement for them which is a subtle difference. It had however been reported that some of the funding for the Leader may have been redirected for that perhaps earmarked for tank engine replacements, which may also have been origin of the M7 replacement myth

More details of the ‘M7’ reference, and much other substantiated information is in Kevin Robertson’s most recent (his third) on the subject. It is truly fascinating and recommended 

[uax6]

Going back to the black Leader for a minute. Having got the Robertson's books off the shelf this morning, I would say that 36001 certainly carried gloss black before she was repainted grey at Brighton before she emerged for testing. 36002 I would say in every photo of her in store that she was only painted in red lead. There is no gloss finish anywhere, and of course painting would be the last job before sending off works.

The livery therefore for 36001 would only be grey, with or without lining, with or without BR crest...

 

Andy G

[pgcroc]

EOI done.

[Edge]

I wouldn’t mind a fictional leader livery though, either BR green or BR black - I think either would actually look quite good

[JSpencer]

I've stuck in my EOI but find the colour choices odd. Brushed Aluminium or BR Green. I thought the prototype was painted in works grey. 

Did she ever have panels in aluminium ? (not normally mixed with steel due to electrolysis reasons)

 

The Robertson's books are very good.

[uax6]

I think that's a mistake, from looking in the books she was only ever in grey.... Doesn't fill you with confidence does it?

Andy G

[Pete the Elaner]

I can imagine this model with DCC sound. It would have to include a large 'crack' to emulate a sleeve valve failing.

[uax6]

Would a sleeve valve fail with a big crack though? They failed through seizure usually, so lots of squeeks? The crack would be the crank axle failing.....

One thing that would be good would be the exhaust note changing every now and again to 'off beat' with a reduction in power at the controller! All done randomly obviously!

And an on board steam generator to send steam out all over the place depending on what the actual final design will be..

 

Andy G

[Spam Can Man]

Well as I said earlier I am interested in the Bulleid Leader. I showed my interest by responding to KR Models website. I also replied to their suggestion for future locomotives as the Bulleid-Rayworth electric locomotives and Michael Revell kindly hinted that they may consider the third one, 2003.

 

Al the best!

 

Gary 

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

Would a sleeve valve fail with a big crack though? They failed through seizure usually, so lots of squeeks? The crack would be the crank axle failing.....

One thing that would be good would be the exhaust note changing every now and again to 'off beat' with a reduction in power at the controller! All done randomly obviously!

And an on board steam generator to send steam out all over the place depending on what the actual final design will be..

 

Andy G

 

Sounds reasonable but when I read a book about it, a large cracking sound was mentioned.

Maybe when part of the valve seized, the motion tore the thing apart?

[KR Models]

1 hour ago, Spam Can Man said:

and Michael Revell kindly hinted that they may consider the third one, 2003.

I said you aren't the first to suggest it, I don't want to be misunderstood here.

 

However, I do take every suggestion and recommendation seriously, so if anyone else has any locos they would like to see, email me personally at research@krmodels.co.uk

 

- Michael

[Edge]

I was reading Kevin Robertson’s book - the cracking sound from what I can tell was when the centre axle of number 1 end  was sheared completely off at the wheel. Determined to likely be a design fault because of the asymmetric chain drive. The number 2 bogie was showing indications of the same fault.

 

so the sound effect would be good, just for a different thing than expected

 

as for the liveries, this is currently at such a preliminary stage that we really can’t hold KR to anything right now. I believe that the loco was in brushed aluminium ex-works, plain grey on her first test runs, lined grey when she made it to eastleigh. From then on she carried the lined grey, although the BR emblem was hastily removed at one point.

 

in between all that, she carried gloss black in the works at one point and the plan was I believe that lined BR green was to be applied the loco ever made it to revenue traffic (to differentiate from the black/silver of the early diesels/electrics and gas turbines). But let’s wait and see what the final offering livery-wise is

Edited July 6, 2020 by Edge

[JZ]

I think I would go for mixed traffic lined black.

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

5 hours ago, JSpencer said:

I've stuck in my EOI but find the colour choices odd. Brushed Aluminium or BR Green. I thought the prototype was painted in works grey. 

Did she ever have panels in aluminium ? (not normally mixed with steel due to electrolysis reasons)

 

Painting locos Aluminium was definitely another of Bulleid odd ideas -  loads of the CIE diesels ended up that colour (and then got repainted very quickly into a more sensible green).

[maico]

Works Grey with red and white lining seems to be the most common scheme seen in the photos with the loco moving under it's own power.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 13:30, adb968008 said:

Wouldn’t that be ironic... an M7 replacement steam loco with better haulage than a Hattons 66 or a Heljan DPU !

Leaving the M7 out of it; had Bulleid stayed around along enough to make a practical working job out of it (hypothesising here that this was possible) such that it could go into revenue service: what BR power rating might it have ended up with?

 

On the asset side its adhesion factor of 7 was exceptional for a steam loco, so resistance to slipping should have been excellent, and plentiful brake force available too. There was never anything wrong with the steaming of OVSB's boilers, so given a suitably heat resistant hero-fireman the sustained power output should have been reliable over a range within the coal supply. I suspect that against BR's rather unambititous power requirements, a 7MT rating might have been possible, though 6MT more likely. (One use for this beast that would have been worth trying, banking on the Lickey. Excellent visibility for buffering up to the rear, firemen only working for short bursts, and plenty of boiler power with good adhesion.)

[Pete the Elaner]

31 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Leaving the M7 out of it; had Bulleid stayed around along enough to make a practical working job out of it (hypothesising here that this was possible) such that it could go into revenue service: what BR power rating might it have ended up with?

 

On the asset side its adhesion factor of 7 was exceptional for a steam loco, so resistance to slipping should have been excellent, and plentiful brake force available too. There was never anything wrong with the steaming of OVSB's boilers, so given a suitably heat resistant hero-fireman the sustained power output should have been reliable over a range within the coal supply. I suspect that against BR's rather unambitious power requirements, a 7MT rating might have been possible, though 6MT more likely. (One use for this beast that would have been worth trying, banking on the Lickey. Excellent visibility for buffering up to the rear, firemen only working for short bursts, and plenty of boiler power with good adhesion.)

 

It was a heavy beast, but importantly all wheels were used for adhesion. Nothing was wasted on unpowered wheels like larger steam locomotives.

Could it have been given an unusual power rating like 5P8F? It was far more common for freight rating to be lower than passenger, but weren't these based on different characteristics?

I agree about its use as a banker. The assets you mention would have made it useful for such a task...if its problems could have been sorted out.

[Pre Grouping fan]

There is at least 1 photo of it in the works wearing gloss black towards the end of this video, (as well as some interesting footage of the valve gear) but ultimately I think it only carried grey durng it's testing so that would be the obvious livery to go for with the model. But wouldn't turn down a black (similar to the bulleid diesel livery with silver strip) or BR Green model if it were offered. 

 

(Not my video) 

 

[RichardT]

If Hornsby can produce the Gresley W1 in a fictitious LNER livery carrying the name it never actually carried, then I don’t see why KR can’t offer a fictitious “production series” Leader in whatever livery looks best.  Such a model would be suitable for a “might have been” layout showing an early 1950s BR where the Leader design had worked out all its teething troubles and had gone into fleet service.  Given that loads of model railways are “might have beens”, I could see that working.  

 

Richard

[Edge]

How about BR blue with full yellow ends if we’re considering fictional options?

 

(this is a joke, please don’t think I am pushing for for this one, just for the record I’m buying the fictional liveried W1 and will be picking up a fictional liveried leader too should it progress to production. I’m also eager to get a grey, heavily weathered one though...)

Edited July 6, 2020 by Edge

[mvrnut]

On the subject of fictional liveries for Leader class, what if nationalization had not occurred until much later. Therefore one could assume that they would have have received Bulleid's malachite green as the Merchant Navy were painted. I think it would look awesome in malachite with SR sunshine lettering.

Cheers,

Chris

[stewartingram]

NSE toothpaste?

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16 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

NSE toothpaste?

In the best of privatisation traditions...

 

Scotrail.

 

Afterall 33’s and 73’s went up there.