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KR Models announce the Bulleid Leader


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Never seen this topic before, I simply cannot believe that a company is taking this on! I did a double take when I saw the title!

 

I think the plain grey was only for the works photoshoot. There's a very good colour photo of it in ex-works condition, but I don't think it ran like that. Every photo I've seen, it's been lined grey with no crest. On some photographs it looks like the panel that would have the crest has been painted out in a slightly different shade.

 

I'd go for lined grey (no crest), BR Black and SR Malachite Green.

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On 20/12/2020 at 11:05, KR Models said:

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.  No final decision has been made over liveries, as we are still researching this ( yes we actually do research).  For sure the grey one, and the BR Black early crest, but after that, not sure.  There's 3 different versions of the grey one we have found.  No name plates or numbers, just numbers, numbers and crest.  So which one do you do?  You can't do all three grey versions as you have to have a minimum quantity to justify the setting up in the factory.

number Plates were made for 36001, and 36002 and 36003.

All 3 authenticated sets of plates still exist.


 

tbh, I’d do 36001 as it was seen most common.

Then play a little with 002 and 003.

 

BR lined Black is an obvious one.

i’d consider a “CC1” in Southern black with sunshine lettering.

 

The best livery guide could be an M7 tank.. that is what they were to replace.

 

 

 

 

 

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Locomotives were painted in photographic grey to better facilitate black and white publicity photographs. There's nothing unusual about a photographic grey loco being lined out and carrying the full proposed livery. What WAS unusual about the Leader was that it was put to work still wearing photographic grey, but I suspect management thought it would be less conspicuous in grey than in shiny fresh BR black. (CJL)

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29 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Floquil grimy black could have made it even less consipicuous.

If post-war UK had been able to afford oil-based paint it might also have afforded oil, and the coal-fired innovation Bulleid sought might not have been needed. 

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On 24/12/2020 at 00:54, adb968008 said:

number Plates were made for 36001, and 36002 and 36003.

All 3 authenticated sets of plates still exist.


 

tbh, I’d do 36001 as it was seen most common.

Then play a little with 002 and 003.

 

BR lined Black is an obvious one.

i’d consider a “CC1” in Southern black with sunshine lettering.

 

The best livery guide could be an M7 tank.. that is what they were to replace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The number CC1 wasalready allocated to an electric locomotive, as was CC2. 
A third electric locomotive was already on the order books, so had a Leader appeared with an SR number, rather than a BR one, I suspect it would have been CC4?
 

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6 hours ago, Phatbob said:

 

The number CC1 wasalready allocated to an electric locomotive, as was CC2. 
A third electric locomotive was already on the order books, so had a Leader appeared with an SR number, rather than a BR one, I suspect it would have been CC4?
 

Or perhaps 00CC1 ?

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31 minutes ago, D9001 said:

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know), 36001- 36005would have been CC101 - CC105

That was my first thought, but Leader was a steam locomotive and numbering reflects the leading and trailing ponies, which Leader had none.

 

I can see where “101” could originate (Merchant Navies vs West Countries), however CC1-4 would have nothing in common to Leader, hence my other guess.

 

ive got “the book” upstairs and can have a look to see if there was an authoritative answer, unless someone else can confirm first.

 

if its correct, its easy to see how Bulleids numbering scheme could be come just as overly complex and confusing as his designs.

 

Edited by adb968008
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Surely the SR numbering system wasn't 'Bullied's' but was merely a copy of standard European systems based on the continental wheel arrangement system? That system would have covered locomotives with two six-wheel bogies or frames as C+C and that would presumably have been reflected in the numbering. (CJL)

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21 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Surely the SR numbering system wasn't 'Bullied's' but was merely a copy of standard European systems based on the continental wheel arrangement system? That system would have covered locomotives with two six-wheel bogies or frames as C+C and that would presumably have been reflected in the numbering. (CJL)

Agreed - although there have been differences in the way things are shown when power bogies are involved - sometimes nothing between, for example, two C's, sometimes a '-' and sometimes a '+'.   Interestingly Bulleid varied from the normal UIC format of 2C1 with his pacifics which were numbered 21C - making them a 4-2-6 under the Whyte notation.  

 

Bulleid's CIE turf burner was numbered CC1 so an obvious clue there.  But what we can be certain of is that the number group for the  'Leaders' would obviously have been distinct from the Bulleid/Raworth 'boosters' - as others have already  suggested.

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On 21/12/2020 at 12:25, Oldddudders said:

Zebra stripes of course. Bound to happen....

All black with silver front of cab oil burning version for Southern Pacific. Or go fancy with Daylight red, orange, black and silver. SP of course already had hundreds of massive cab forward freight locomotives so driving configuration not new or a labor problem. Would go in same collection with my electrified Donner Pass/Sierra line which was seriously considered.

 

Santa Fe would need an oil burning version for running in California which outlawed coal burning steam locomotives in 1905. 

Edited by autocoach
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15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

They could always number it as an Irish Railways version

 

:scared:

Except the SR already had one CC1 so it might have been a bit confusing if they'd had two.  On the other hand they could have legitimately pointed to the success of CC1 in traffic and nobody would have know the difference.  

 

And judging by its approach to number series I sincerely doubt that anyone in the BR hierarchy would have agreed the use of such weird foreign numbering systems - they moved quickly enough to renumber Bulleid's other designs which all had numbers that didn't conflict with any other running numbers on the system..

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7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Except the SR already had one CC1 so it might have been a bit confusing if they'd had two.  On the other hand they could have legitimately pointed to the success of CC1 in traffic and nobody would have know the difference.  

 

And judging by its approach to number series I sincerely doubt that anyone in the BR hierarchy would have agreed the use of such weird foreign numbering systems - they moved quickly enough to renumber Bulleid's other designs which all had numbers that didn't conflict with any other running numbers on the system..

My comment was meant a little humouric.

 

misinterpretation seems to be rife today.

 

what I meant was paint and number it in CIE livery as well.,.. much like Triang did with the Hymek in the 1970’s... totally unauthentic, but ironic.

:-)


 

Edited by adb968008
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58 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

you could hardly confuse a T1 0-4-4T with a diesel electric shunter !

Not by looking at them IRL, I would hope. But it depends on who's looking at the numbers on the page. Never underestimate the potential for human error.

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Just got an email from KR models saying that the order book for the leaders will be open in fed and that both grey and black liveries will be available.

 

Quick question for KR - is the grey livery the early crest grey (loco’s official ‘portrait’) or the lined grey she ran with in her trials without the crest?

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Also received the e-mail. I want to go ahead but am concerned that the dc ready version, which was priced 6 months ago at £170, the website currently quotes £180 but the e-mail advises it is now going to be £199. Quite a steep increase. Will have to think carefully as I have a fully paid up Fell on order.

Edited by rembrow
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1 hour ago, Edge said:

Just got an email from KR models saying that the order book for the leaders will be open in fed and that both grey and black liveries will be available.

 

Quick question for KR - is the grey livery the early crest grey (loco’s official ‘portrait’) or the lined grey she ran with in her trials without the crest?

 

We hope to offer both versions.

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Either unlined grey with crest or   
lined grey without crest would add a dash of colour to the liveries so I’m not to fussed, but I think I’d go with a grey livery over black as it would stand out more. Black liveries are fairly common as many locos ended up wearing one as such so do loco models. Grey is far more rare, at least as far as steam locos go. 
 

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