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Reducing the width of existing layout


Damo666
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I thought of putting this into the 'Challenges' forum.

 

The layout I bought last year is giving me great enjoyment, and I've rarely driven a loco. Some of the fun has been on re-wiring from DC to DCC and the design of a suitable storage rack.

 

My problem with the layout is that the layout boards are 700mm wide but the door to the room is only 670mm wide at a push. The storage rack I was considering building would need to be collapsible if it were to ever come out of the room. This would mean decanting the layout off the storage rack (finding somewhere safe to leave them), collapsing the rack, moving the rack to the other side of the door and then re-filling the rack with the layout boards every time I wanted to move it. I've spent a good 10+ months pondering this in-between other modelling tasks.

 

Another thought was to change the door opening width but this was not an option (structural pier to one side and a bedroom wall to the other side, I did consider it though).

 

Then over the weekend I think I've had a bit of an epiphany. I thought, could I shave a bit off the layout?

:excl:

 

I'd need to reduce the layout board's width from 700mm to 615mm, lopping 85mm off the length.

 

The furtherest side of the boards from the user only has some scenery, a branch line and a turntable (which I was looking to make look derelict, but now would be redundant / removed).

 

Things which I'd need to do are:

Lift the track, should be easy.

Disconnect any wires to the side of the board which will be chopped.

 

But then, how do I cut off the edge?

 

Tools I have available to me are:

Circular Saw

Table Saw

Oscillating Saw

 

Once I start cutting into the layout top I'm aware that the supporting edge will be removed, leaving the top prone to sagging and therefore damage.

 

Thinking aloud, probably best to fix a temporary batten inbound of the cut, to keep the board level & supported.

 

The oscillating saw would allow a fine cut. I'd be able to get close and do the cut with care, but it's not highly accurate (exact parallel cut) and would be slow.

The table saw would be precise, giving an accurate parallel cut. I'm concerned that it's a big machine working on a model layout. If set up properly it might be the best solution, but I'd need to explore all the pitfalls.

 

Any suggestions would be welcome

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Hi Philip,

 

You are absolutely right, there is no reason why each board cannot be taken through the door on their side.

 

However there are 9 boards plus ancillary pieces, like legs etc and I'd like to avoid the repeated manhandling operation of decanting 9 boards, moving the 9 boards plus rack and then reloading the 9 boards. If I could just wheel out the rack in one operation......

 

Unfortunately I cannot keep the layout set-up all the time so I need to keep it safely in a storage rack.

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1 hour ago, Damo666 said:

I thought of putting this into the 'Challenges' forum.

 

The layout I bought last year is giving me great enjoyment, and I've rarely driven a loco. Some of the fun has been on re-wiring from DC to DCC and the design of a suitable storage rack.

 

My problem with the layout is that the layout boards are 700mm wide but the door to the room is only 670mm wide at a push. The storage rack I was considering building would need to be collapsible if it were to ever come out of the room. This would mean decanting the layout off the storage rack (finding somewhere safe to leave them), collapsing the rack, moving the rack to the other side of the door and then re-filling the rack with the layout boards every time I wanted to move it. I've spent a good 10+ months pondering this in-between other modelling tasks.

 

Another thought was to change the door opening width but this was not an option (structural pier to one side and a bedroom wall to the other side, I did consider it though).

 

Then over the weekend I think I've had a bit of an epiphany. I thought, could I shave a bit off the layout?

:excl:

 

I'd need to reduce the layout board's width from 700mm to 615mm, lopping 85mm off the length.

 

The furtherest side of the boards from the user only has some scenery, a branch line and a turntable (which I was looking to make look derelict, but now would be redundant / removed).

 

Things which I'd need to do are:

Lift the track, should be easy.

Disconnect any wires to the side of the board which will be chopped.

 

But then, how do I cut off the edge?

 

Tools I have available to me are:

Circular Saw

Table Saw

Oscillating Saw

 

Once I start cutting into the layout top I'm aware that the supporting edge will be removed, leaving the top prone to sagging and therefore damage.

 

Thinking aloud, probably best to fix a temporary batten inbound of the cut, to keep the board level & supported.

 

The oscillating saw would allow a fine cut. I'd be able to get close and do the cut with care, but it's not highly accurate (exact parallel cut) and would be slow.

The table saw would be precise, giving an accurate parallel cut. I'm concerned that it's a big machine working on a model layout. If set up properly it might be the best solution, but I'd need to explore all the pitfalls.

 

Any suggestions would be welcome

 

I suggest watching your fingers.

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Fix a new permanent board edge inbound of the cut. Glued, screwed, pinned. When the saw gets going there will be some vibration.

 

Fix a temporary (metal if possible) batten to the top of the board, and use this as a guide for the oscillating ( jigsaw?) saw.

 

The turntable well could be left as is, with an extra wall across the part of the pit as encroachment by the more recent local infrastructure hiding the part that's been removed.  

 

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5 hours ago, Damo666 said:

*snip*

 

I'd need to reduce the layout board's width from 700mm to 615mm, lopping 85mm off the length.

 

*snip*

 

But then, how do I cut off the edge?

 

Tools I have available to me are:

Circular Saw

Table Saw

Oscillating Saw

 

Once I start cutting into the layout top I'm aware that the supporting edge will be removed, leaving the top prone to sagging and therefore damage.

 

Thinking aloud, probably best to fix a temporary batten inbound of the cut, to keep the board level & supported.

 

The oscillating saw would allow a fine cut. I'd be able to get close and do the cut with care, but it's not highly accurate (exact parallel cut) and would be slow.

The table saw would be precise, giving an accurate parallel cut. I'm concerned that it's a big machine working on a model layout. If set up properly it might be the best solution, but I'd need to explore all the pitfalls.

 

Any suggestions would be welcome

I use what the woodworkers call a 'cutting board' and a circular saw. You can see how to make a cutting board at https://ibuildit.ca/projects/making-a-saw-board-track-saw/, although there are plenty of other websites.

 

For cutting plywood, which is basically what you will be doing, I clamp the cutting board to the plywood (the piece to be kept) and make the cut. The cutting board nicely 'supports' the plywood during the cutting.

 

For your existing baseboard, I'd suggest turning it over (assuming that it possible), remove the edge framing timber, make the cut (it'd be easier to clamp to the 'flat' underside of the baseboard), and then re-install the edge framing.

 

Hope this helps.

 

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2 hours ago, ISW said:

I use what the woodworkers call a 'cutting board' and a circular saw. You can see how to make a cutting board at https://ibuildit.ca/projects/making-a-saw-board-track-saw/, although there are plenty of other websites.

 

For cutting plywood, which is basically what you will be doing, I clamp the cutting board to the plywood (the piece to be kept) and make the cut. The cutting board nicely 'supports' the plywood during the cutting.

 

For your existing baseboard, I'd suggest turning it over (assuming that it possible), remove the edge framing timber, make the cut (it'd be easier to clamp to the 'flat' underside of the baseboard), and then re-install the edge framing.

 

Hope this helps.

I can see why you suggest turning over the baseboard, to avoid the blade ripping the newly cut edge top surface, but the boards have track, platforms and buildings (some will go). Plus the underside has electrics, so I wouldn't be able to place the 'cutting board' flat to the underside.

 

375845658_LayoutChopped.jpg.442530fd802a563e6c0f8afbadebda03.jpg

 

Does the cutting board, being flat to the surface being cut, stop the edge ripping? I think this is a great tool to have and I'll make one for my circular saw, thanks for the tip.

 

I think that if I put a new edge batten along the new cut line, like @Stubby47 suggests, and then run on the table say, the downward direction of the saw blade will give me a neat cut on the top of the baseboard.

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It might be easier to change the door?

Stage one remove the door frame giving a few extra centimetres.

Make some sort of plug door that swings completely out of the way or a sliding door.

Increase the size of the doorway and add a wider door. If it's a stud wall that's easy to do as it's plaster board and timber to cut away.

If it's masonry wall then it's harder and a new lintel will also be needed to support the above wall.

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1 hour ago, relaxinghobby said:

It might be easier to change the door?

Stage one remove the door frame giving a few extra centimetres.

Make some sort of plug door that swings completely out of the way or a sliding door.

Increase the size of the doorway and add a wider door. If it's a stud wall that's easy to do as it's plaster board and timber to cut away.

If it's masonry wall then it's harder and a new lintel will also be needed to support the above wall.

 

 

Erm...

 

19 hours ago, Damo666 said:

Another thought was to change the door opening width but this was not an option (structural pier to one side and a bedroom wall to the other side, I did consider it though).

 

 

Al.

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I had to check that yesterdays date wasn't the beginning of April.

 

You've summed it up to be fair - your layout looks really good without starting on any industrial hacking. 

 

..........This would mean decanting the layout off the storage rack (finding somewhere safe to leave them), collapsing the rack, moving the rack to the other side of the door and then re-filling the rack with the layout boards every time..............

 

 Ian

Edited by Crisis Rail
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56 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

I had to check that yesterdays date wasn't the beginning of April.

 

You've summed it up to be fair - your layout looks really good without starting on any industrial hacking. 

 

..........This would mean decanting the layout off the storage rack (finding somewhere safe to leave them), collapsing the rack, moving the rack to the other side of the door and then re-filling the rack with the layout boards every time..............

 

 Ian

 

That polava, plus the existing storage arrangement (being a mess) means that setting-up and taking down the layout for a few hours fun is really offputting.

Plus there is a high risk of damage.

52337971_LayoutRack.jpg.8a67e1ebcb4a80b2410ddd4128d81ca8.jpg

 

OT:

I cannot even extract just a few boards and set them up, I have to remove the baseboards from top -> down, set them aside safely out of the way before I get to the main scenic boards. Some boards rest on top of others.

 

With my new rack, I'll be able slide in & out individual baseboards.

 

Back On Topic.

 

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May I just address the issue of moving the door / widening the door etc, to avoid wasting fellow forum members time with suggestions that are not possible.

 

20 hours ago, Damo666 said:

Another thought was to change the door opening width but this was not an option (structural pier to one side and a bedroom wall to the other side, I did consider it though).

 

Of course anything is possible, if you chuck huge disproportionate amounts of money at it and accept the collateral impact of a smaller bedroom.

 

Here's the plan

Capture.JPG.355ab295607c4b50e7b772bcb8a2ee5e.JPG

 

As on Off-Topic competition (on another thread please), anyone like to suggest how my wife will respond if I give her the option of £3K to make an opening larger, get a new door and lintel, move a wall, move electrics, redecorate and new carpet and have a smaller bedroom, or cut the edge off your trainset?

 

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43 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

You've summed it up to be fair - your layout looks really good without starting on any industrial hacking. 

 

Hi Ian,

 

You are right, it's a great layout which I bought. It was (almost) what I was looking for, I knew it was on the large size when I got it but I also knew that if I waited until I built my own layout I'd have never found enough time between work, family and other commitments. Maybe when I retire I'll build my own layout.

 

As I'll be modelling a diesel era layout I intend to update a lot of the structures (maybe make some derelict or have more modern additions). The turntable will be defunct anyway, so I won't mourn the loss of it and the 1 branch line. I'll either remove the turntable completely or leave the partial remains as an architectural antiquity.

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12 hours ago, Damo666 said:

I can see why you suggest turning over the baseboard, to avoid the blade ripping the newly cut edge top surface, but the boards have track, platforms and buildings (some will go). Plus the underside has electrics, so I wouldn't be able to place the 'cutting board' flat to the underside.

 

*snip*

 

Does the cutting board, being flat to the surface being cut, stop the edge ripping? I think this is a great tool to have and I'll make one for my circular saw, thanks for the tip.

 

I think that if I put a new edge batten along the new cut line, like @Stubby47 suggests, and then run on the table say, the downward direction of the saw blade will give me a neat cut on the top of the baseboard.

The blades on a circular saw seem to cut in an upward direction, thus 'pulling' the circular saw down towards the piece being cut; obviously as a safety measure. Therefore it's the upper side that gets the tear-out. This can be reduced by putting masking tape along the joint, and keeping the cutting depth on the saw to a minimum (this lowers the 'angle-of-attack' of the blade), but it can't be 100% eliminated. I usually just use some sandpaper along the edge to tidy it up. A good cutting board does help, but mine I made from some old fencing panels and so are a bit cupped / curved - not ideal - but I did cut them straight.

 

I wouldn't expect the electrics to be that much of a problem. Wires can be relocated, and lengthened where necessary.

 

If you have a table-saw then that should be better at cutting, it's just the manhandling of the baseboards into position that will be the challenge.

 

If it helps, you always have the option of cutting both sides 50/50 (or any ratio that suits) and/or cutting at an angle along the side (both sides at the same angle obviously) to result in a parallelogram shape. This may help reduce the impact on the trackwork and/or scenery. It just makes the cutting work twice as hard - sorry.

 

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1 hour ago, ISW said:

<<<< SNIP >>>>

 

If it helps, you always have the option of cutting both sides 50/50 (or any ratio that suits) and/or cutting at an angle along the side (both sides at the same angle obviously) to result in a parallelogram shape. This may help reduce the impact on the trackwork and/or scenery. It just makes the cutting work twice as hard - sorry.

 

Understand your observation, I agree, the layout is very orthogonal (and flat), something that I'd like to address later on.

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Just another thought. The model is 700mm wide and you need to reduce this to 615mm. That can be done by lifting one side by ~350mm. So, how about installing some hinges along one side and using a simple timber prop to lift the other side when moving it about? Yes, you'll need a separate framework to support the layout and to hinge / prop from, but it does save lopping bits off the layout.

 

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If it was me and cutting the board was the only option, I would take Stubby47's way of adding a new batten and carefully sawing off the excess, it doesn't have to be a perfect cut as you can always use a surform or similar to bring the edge back to the batten. It will make a mess but it should work. Make a careful check for hidden screws first, your jigsaw wont like finding those !

 

However, my first preference would be to find some way of stacking the boards vertically or on an angle to keep the width down. Your SR may finish up higher or longer but provided it isn't higher than the door...

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I'd look at putting the boards on the rack either at an angle, or vertically. You might need two racks rather than one, but you'd have less weight to move around the house.

 

Otherwise, having seen it done on 4' long boards, it's a case of fitting new framing and then cutting back with which ever saw's convenient. Cut slightly wider than you need and then sand back to the edge of the new frames.

 

Steven B.

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