New Loco Claims Made On Ebay

[Graham Radish]

I'm noticing more lately that some sellers are listing locos 'especially OO gauge for some reason' as NEW but looking at the pictures they have clearly been tampered with, i have also seen a couple of NEW listings and the models have glue marks all over them, i think ebay needs a team of specialized moderators to sort this problem out. I've even seen a loco advertised as NEW and they have no box and are on show on a garden wall, the model clearly had scratches on it and the decals worn off.

 

One way to sort this would be to get manufacturers to fit a seal to the packaging.

 

How do they get away with this?

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Graham Radish

[Darius43]

Caveat emptor I’m afraid.

 

Darius

[Butler Henderson]

To balance their are a number of used listings which are new, seems that those sellers are strictly compiling witht the eBay criteria for new being an unopened item so simply taking the model out for a photo and possibly test run makes it used in comparison to model shops who would still consider it to be new.

[Bucoops]

Unless absolutely mint I always list unused but been around a while items as used - but put in the listing that have never been used. New means new.

[gordon s]

It’s always a difficult one, although loco’s labelled as new, which clearly aren’t is inexcusable. Over the years I’ve bought many loco’s which have remained in their boxes and never run. However, they need to be removed from their boxes for any decent photographs and as they have never run for several years, I will always test and if necessary lubricate a loco so that any buyer receives a loco that is ‘new’ and runs perfectly.

 

Of course I make this very clear in the written description, but I list them as new to separate them from the used tat that can be found for sale.

 

The alternative is to leave them in the box, which does nothing to show the condition and buyers may be far from happy with a loco that may not be 100% at the outset through lack of running.

Edited July 7, 2020 by gordon s

[hayfield]

When listing items still in sealed packets I always list them as used, I am not a retailer so therefore anything I bought in the past and not used is second hand (therefore a used item), however just add " unused" "still in sealed packed", or "packet opened/loco taken out or the box for photographic purposes"  These are simple, easy to understand and factual statements

 

I think as far as trading standards are concerned its illegal to pass something off as new or not stating the item it is a return etc

 

As a buyer, unless I am buying from a recognized retailer, I assume its second hand. Even if it looks brand new and in the case of kits unbuilt

 

Example, I recently bought an unbuilt whitemetal kit for the additional parts within the box. As it happens its an older version of a currently available kit, some parts steal factory packed. I bought it from the original purchaser, so whilst its unbuilt its clearly second hand, you could even say by me reselling the kit (still unbuilt) its third hand

 

There is nothing wrong in buying previously owned items, in fact there are several benefits in doing so. Many unbuilt and now unavailable kits sell for many times their original value, their rarity increases their value.

 

But how can they be new ??

[Graham Radish]

As i say in the OP, Bachmann/Dapol etc should put a seal on the box, because ebay states clearly that new should be sealed

 

people are getting around it by listing their items as 'new used' to me that is an oxymoron

Edited July 7, 2020 by Graham Radish

[gordon s]

There is nothing I can see that says it must be sealed. There is no problem opening the box to take photographs of what you are selling if you make that clear in the full listing details.

 

This is the eBay definition of new I have just copied from the web.

 

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item. See the seller's listing for full details.

[friscopete]

i have sold  several new locos still packed in boxes and indeed still wrapped in tissue   ,Bachmann I think , and untouched .I just put this in the listing and say if you want me to open it and check the running its up to the buyer .Several just said they would take the risk  so I send them unopened .

[Guest Half-full]

29 minutes ago, Graham Radish said:

As i say in the OP, Bachmann/Dapol etc should put a seal on the box, because ebay states clearly that new should be sealed

 

people are getting around it by listing their items as 'new used' to me that is an oxymoron

Why?  Stock isn't sold to be resold on eBay

 

Whether you are buying a new model or an old model, its buyer beware.  I wouldn't buy a brand new loco, or even a listing stating 'as new' if it was from a private seller, or from a shop trading on eBay without a physical store.

 

I've no qualms buying a used loco, I expect it to not be as described, and bid accordingly, but if it is as described, or indeed better, then thats a bonus.

[GWR-fan]

As I am not a retailer and retail selling an item for the first time then technically the item is secondhand and thus "used", even though purchased new and never used .  For those locomotives that I have purchased retail as new and never used,  sometimes not even removing from their packaging,  when unfortunately I list for sale on eBay it is always listed as used,  as new condition.  Some that I have test run on arrival to confirm operation,  I list as used, as new,  test run only.   A test run is barely two or three minutes running to confirm that the model works.

 

Like the OP I have seen many items listed as new condition and it is blatantly obvious that the item has had considerable use.   EBay description of a new item is an item still sealed in its unopened packaging.  Removing the item from its packaging to me implies that the item is no longer new as I am not a retail seller.  Obviously, if a retailer removed a new item for display or to test for a customer,  then the item is still technically new.  Once the item is purchased then it becomes used.   Try driving a car out of a showroom forecourt and then drive straight back into the showroom and see how much the car yard offers you.  

Edited July 7, 2020 by GWR-fan
Revised information

[Darius43]

If I can see the condition of the item is so bad that it doesn’t match the seller’s description of “new” then just I move on and don’t purchase it.  The seller is either a scoundrel or an idiot.

 

If there is a vague picture of something in a box I also move on because I cannot see the condition of the item.  Ditto if the picture is of something else - especially one of Noddy in his car or a politically incorrect cuddly toy.
 

“Sold as seen” is also a warning flag to me as it indicates that something might be wrong with the item that the seller may not want you to know.

 

eBay is a marketplace, albeit online.  In a traditional market, would you buy a load of visibly rotten fruit that the seller described as fresh and afterwards complain that it wasn’t?

 

Darius

Edited July 8, 2020 by Darius43

[gordon s]

I have just checked again and cannot see anywhere that eBay say model railway stock must be in sealed packaging. The definition of new changes depending on what is being sold and whilst I agree some products must be in sealed packaging, it does not apply to model railway stock which come under ‘collectables‘.
 

Happy to accept it if I have missed something in my interpretation.
 

Either way, as others have said, it is always buyer beware, so trust your instincts.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=4765

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by gordon s

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, gordon s said:

I have just checked again and cannot see anywhere that eBay say model railway stock must be in sealed packaging. The definition of new changes depending on what is being sold and whilst I agree some products must be in sealed packaging, it does not apply to model railway stock which come under ‘collectibles‘.
 

Happy to accept it if I have missed something in my interpretation.
 

Either way, as others have said, it is always buyer beware, so trust your instincts.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=4765

 

 

They fall under

 

Miscellaneous categories: Books, Comics & Magazines; Collectables; Crafts; Dolls & Bears; DVD Film & TV; Music; Toys & Games and Video Games

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item. See the seller's listing for full details.

[Graham Radish]

On 07/07/2020 at 23:43, GWR-fan said:

As I am not a retailer and retail selling an item for the first time then technically the item is secondhand and thus "used", even though purchased new and never used .  For those locomotives that I have purchased retail as new and never used,  sometimes not even removing from their packaging,  when unfortunately I list for sale on eBay it is always listed as used,  as new condition.  Some that I have test run on arrival to confirm operation,  I list as used, as new,  test run only.   A test run is barely two or three minutes running to confirm that the model works.

 

Like the OP I have seen many items listed as new condition and it is blatantly obvious that the item has had considerable use.   EBay description of a new item is an item still sealed in its unopened packaging.  Removing the item from its packaging to me implies that the item is no longer new as I am not a retail seller.  Obviously, if a retailer removed a new item for display or to test for a customer,  then the item is still technically new.  Once the item is purchased then it becomes used.   Try driving a car out of a showroom forecourt and then drive straight back into the showroom and see how much the car yard offers you.  

This is very true, i agree 100%

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, Graham Radish said:

This is very true, i agree 100%

 

The first question is, "are you buying from a retailer" if no then the item must be second hand

 

However it has been recognized for many years that something classified as mint in box is very desirable and clearly describes the condition of the item

 

I regular buy items which clearly are in an unused condition, some could even be classified as being in mint condition even after 20 or 30 years passing from them being commonly available.

 

Calling something new is just being lazy and possibly less than truthful, but simply stating condition "as new", or "only been test run" along with a set of decent photos will give prospective buyers a much better idea of what they are buying 

[Talltim]

With many model railway items, the retailer has bought it from the manufacturer, so they aren’t the first owner.

If I buy something direct from the manufacturer and then sell it without opening it, is it more or less ‘new’ than an item bought from a manufacturer by a shop and opened for testing before sale?

Edited July 9, 2020 by Talltim

[hayfield]

No. If a retailer sells an item less than perfect it is described as shop soiled, or more worryingly a return

 

You have answered your own question, been tested prior to being "sold" its second hand !!!. However if it is in as new condition/never used just state that

 

Buying a used item has lost its taboo, in fashion its becoming more fashionable to buy pre loved items. We have one of these trendy shops in the village though calling something which has never been worn as pre-loved perhaps is stretching it a bit.

 

I bought a discontinued DJH kit where the parts were still in their wrappings/packs, was it new? Of course not the previous owner has had it for several years. Was it in a like new condition, yes it was. Had I bought it from either DJH or one of their distributors would it have been new? Yes but would have better been describes as old stock.

 

This is splitting hairs, as I assume the main cause for concern is about less than reputable sellers miss describing items, trying to pass soiled/used stock as new   

[Edge]

For my part, if it’s been out of the box for a run and/or photography I give the condition as ‘used-like new’ unless there is a reason to bump it down to ‘used’. Only had an issue once when someone decided he wanted to swap out a knackered Beattie Well tank for my brand new one by abusing the returns process. 
 

I would only describe something as ‘new’ if it was entirely within its original box and was to the best of my knowledge as it came from the manufacturer.

 

not putting it up as a model for anyone else, but that’s how I do it myself and it seems to satisfy most

[Hal Nail]

I dont know why people think this is open to interpretation really,

 

If you buy something and sell it on, regardless of the state of it, the buyer isnt getting the guarantees, consumer rights etc etc of the original purchaser, so it isnt new, it is used.

 

 

 

 

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I dont know why people think this is open to interpretation really,

 

If you buy something and sell it on, regardless of the state of it, the buyer isnt getting the guarantees, consumer rights etc etc of the original purchaser, so it isnt new, it is used.

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on 100%

 

However if you are a collector and selling a mint condition model, just describe it as "in mint condition" and perhaps "never run or test run only"

Simple and easy to understand by the buyer and stops the revenue thinking you are a retailer

[kevinlms]

On 07/07/2020 at 10:22, Graham Radish said:

I'm noticing more lately that some sellers are listing locos 'especially OO gauge for some reason' as NEW but looking at the pictures they have clearly been tampered with, i have also seen a couple of NEW listings and the models have glue marks all over them, i think ebay needs a team of specialized moderators to sort this problem out. I've even seen a loco advertised as NEW and they have no box and are on show on a garden wall, the model clearly had scratches on it and the decals worn off.

 

One way to sort this would be to get manufacturers to fit a seal to the packaging.

 

How do they get away with this?

 

 

How is eBay ever going to sort out the problem of misidentified/described items. Even if they had 'modellers' amongst their ranks, will they be general modellers or in our case railway modellers? Or even GWR/LMS/BR or whatever. Ebay costs/overheads would just go up, still without any guarantee that the item is 'correct'.

 

The concept is just too difficult. People like Hayfield, would be most upset at not picking up poorly described items, cheaply!

[hayfield]

Kevin

 

Looking at some adds on eBay I agree, especially when an item is described as a "kit built Hornby loco" or you put in a search for DJH locos and K's/DJH come up. If I wanted a K's kit I would have included K's in my search, or how could you ever describe a Hornby or Lima loco as a kit built item. There are a couple of traders who continually miss describe the items they are selling !!

 

However you do have eBay's sellers protection on your side and if a trader sells it distance selling rules

 

If I bought an item either described as new and it was not, of kit built and it is a ready to run loco (even if its been converted) I would demand a refund and only return the item once I have received payment for return postage.

 

As it is I rarely seek recompense even if slightly damaged. But if I have been either misled and or the seller is unhelpful I will exercise my rights under sellers protection. Thankfully these instances are extremely rare, especially as I try to keep away from these types of seller

 

There is a world of difference of someone on purpose making a conscious deceptive miss description and someone either making a genuine error or just badly describing an item. As I said on items I take a chance on the onus is on me as I have knowingly brought something thinking its something else or better than it is. But when someone makes a claim they know to be untrue, this is totally different

 

As per the OP's title. There is a world of difference between someone stating its new and its not, and me thing its new when it is not. 

 

Please when you list an item you must state its condition as an eBay requirement in selling it. eBay describe new as "A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item." 

eBay instruct the buyer to " See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections."

 

Policing it is very simple, if your listing fails to describe the item in full and its description and it fails to match eBays description, you have no leg to stand on.