Current / future 4mm finescale track option clarification

[foggyjames]

Thanks Martin - interesting!

 

cheers

 

James

[petejones]

4 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

I have now found one. It's an early pre-group NER crossover with interlaced timbering. But shows the straight section between the crossing vees:

 

Would it work if one was to insert a very short piece of straight track between two sets of Peco (or any other manufactuer) turnouts? That would achieve the same affect, wouldn't it?

[martin_wynne]

40 minutes ago, petejones said:

Would it work if one was to insert a very short piece of straight track between two sets of Peco (or any other manufactuer) turnouts? That would achieve the same affect, wouldn't it?

 

 

Well it would prevent an instant reverse.

 

But it would be at an unnecessarily steep angle, and it would push the track spacing even further apart.

 

The object of the exercise is to build a model of the prototype. The starting point is to look at the prototype.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[petejones]

This is a shot from Whitland Station showing quite a curved crossover, but it still looks like there is a short straight half-way along:

 

[martin_wynne]

48 minutes ago, petejones said:

This is a shot from Whitland Station showing quite a curved crossover, but it still looks like there is a short straight half-way along:

 

 

Hi Pete,

 

Thanks for the pic. The goods train is running on a goods loop or siding spaced at 9ft or 10ft way (looks to be 9ft) from the running lines (which are at 6ft way). Which explains the longer length of straight between the crossing vees.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi Guys,

 

There is another option that I have been working on for the last 6 months which I will hopefully be releasing soon - 4mm version of Finetrax!

As usual, they come in kit form, but this version will come with the timber base with all the chairs pre installed as 1 moulded piece. It also has a completed cast crossing frog unit and pre milled switch blades.

 

Hoping to release the first kit (a B7) towards Christmas. More kits will follow, including diamonds, slips, X-Overs and 3-ways.

 

Sorry for the naff photos...

Edited November 12, 2020 by Wayne Kinney

[martin_wynne]

15 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

There is another option that I have been working on for the last 6 months which I will hopefully be releasing soon - 4mm version of Finetrax!

 

 

Hi Wayne,

 

Looks very good!

 

Gauge?  Crossing flangeway gap?

 

Strange that you have 3 timbers in the switch front?

 

Martin.

Edited November 12, 2020 by martin_wynne

[Joseph_Pestell]

15 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

There is another option that I have been working on for the last 6 months which I will hopefully be releasing soon - 4mm version of Finetrax!

As usual, they come in kit form, but this version will come with the timber base with all the chairs pre installed and moulded as 1 piece. It also has a completed cast crossing frog unit and pre milled switch blades.

 

Hoping to release the first kit (a B7) towards Christmas. More kits will follow, including diamonds, slips, X-Overs and 3-ways.

 

Sorry for the naff photos...

 

Great news.

[Wayne Kinney]

47 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Wayne,

 

Looks very good!

 

Gauge?  Crossing flangeway gap?

 

Martin.

Many thanks, Martin (especially coming from yourself).

 

First to be released will be a 00 Gauge B7, with DOGA Intermediate' (1.2mm flangeway) so Ready to Run models can run on it without modification. Also the option for thick timber (to match Peco & thick C&L) or thin sleeper (to match C&L thin or SMP track)

 

EM Gauge & option for 'DOGA fine '(1mm flangeway for those that want it) will follow, and I have also been considering 00-SF version.

00 Gauge DOGA fine shown in the pictures.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Wayne Kinney

[hayfield]

Wayne

 

Looking very good and plugs a gap in the market between poor RTR availability and bespoke custom builds. Is the rail in the chairs upright or made with a cant as per prototype. Whos rail is it designed to use? 

 

I would have thought 00SF would be more popular than DOGA fine, but fills a void for those who use that standard 

[Wayne Kinney]

21 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Wayne

 

Looking very good and plugs a gap in the market between poor RTR availability and bespoke custom builds. Is the rail in the chairs upright or made with a cant as per prototype. Whos rail is it designed to use? 

 

I would have thought 00SF would be more popular than DOGA fine, but fills a void for those who use that standard 

Many thanks, rail in the chairs is upright, the kits will use Marcway/SMP code 75 Nickel Silver Bullhead rail. I will also be reselling SMP 00 Gauge and EM Gauge flexi track on my website. After speaking to Marc over the phone, he was very accommodating and advantageous, thanks Marc!

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said:

EM Gauge & option for 'DOGA fine '(1mm flangeway for those that want it) will follow, and I have also been considering 00-SF version.

 

You are probably far more experienced than I am to know how big (or small) the DOGA Fine market is, or how many layouts actually use it?

 

 

Hi Wayne,

 

I would forget DOGA Fine if I was you. I don't know how many use it through choice, but if they do they will be happily handbuilding their track and may not make much of a market for your kits. Quite a few others may be using it not by choice, because it was (and still is, as far as I know) sold by C&L as their default 00 turnout kits without any mention that unmodified RTR won't run on it.

 

If you supply both DOGA Interemediate and DOGA Fine you will spend the rest of your life explaining the difference, and exchanging kits for those who ordered the wrong one by mistake.

 

I would go for DOGA 00 Intermediate first, and just call it standard 00.

 

Then EM. There is a big handbuilt track market for that, EM layouts are more numerous and larger than P4 layouts. As evidence of that the EMGS have found it worthwhile to get RTL turnouts made for them by Peco. When I was making turnout kits back in the 80s, EM easily outsold 00 and P4 added together. The 00 market is vast, but 99% of it still uses Peco Streamline out of the box. That may be changing.

 

Then look at 00-SF. But bear in mind that 00 modellers who have switched to 00-SF know about track. They are looking for custom pointwork in a range of sizes, curved turnouts in a range of radii, both with similar flexure and contraflexure, so that proper curved crossovers can be built. Plus diamonds and slips. A couple of standard sizes of straight turnout is hardly going to satisfy them. For 00 modellers running only RTR who want easy track kits, DOGA Intermediate is the best bet.

 

EM and 00-SF modellers are also likely to be interested in buying your 1mm flangeway cast crossings and machined switch blades, if you are planning to make them available separately. Probably more than the full kits.

 

edit: p.s. You have made the right decision with vertical rail. Canted rail causes lots of gauging and rail-bending difficulties, and no-one can actually see the difference in 4mm scale.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited November 12, 2020 by martin_wynne

[foggyjames]

An interesting development, and an interesting follow-up discussion!

 

I'm still flip-flopping between Peco Bullhead (or potentially these new products) and going freeform via Templot. I feel like another crack at Templot is gettng ever-closer, as the weather gets more miserable!

 

cheers

 

James

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi James,

 

Maybe get some components in and have a go on at the free form on a test piece, it really is satisfying!

[foggyjames]

I only really have two 'lumps' of pointwork on my plan - a crossover, and a huge mass of a double slip and (from memory) two turnouts. The crossover could be from kits, (and even the Peco Bullhead turnouts would be very close to right, there), but the double slip / turnout 'lump' would significantly benefit, alignment-wise, from being done on a free-form basis. I feel like that's a bit daunting, and starting with the crossover would be more manageable, but that could be done from a kit - bit of a conflict there! Maybe kit-building that crossover would be a good stepping-stone?

 

cheers

 

James

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi James,

 

Is the double slip on your plan on a curve?

 

If you could curve the standard turnout kits (which you can), do you feel that would better fit your plan? Or is the double slip also on a curve?

[foggyjames]

Hi Wayne,

 

I need a double slip because of space constraints regardless. My original plan used the RTL Peco slip (and turnouts) before I was even aware that free-form was an option, but curving it would definitely make the whole thing look a lot more natural, and hide the dimensional compromise (relating to a step in the wall it's hugging).

 

cheers

 

James

[Wayne Kinney]

OK, I ask because you can curve the Finetrax turnout kits, but not really the double slips...

[drduncan]

James,

 

I’d add Iain Rice’s book An approach to finescale track to your reading list. It may not be the approach for you but it will help you understand the issues and problems making your own solutions easier to come to.  
 

(I’m building mixed gauge track in EM in case you are wondering how tight my grip on sanity is)

 

Duncan

[iak]

On 12/11/2020 at 09:54, Wayne Kinney said:

Many thanks, Martin (especially coming from yourself).

 

First to be released will be a 00 Gauge B7, with DOGA Intermediate' (1.2mm flangeway) so Ready to Run models can run on it without modification. Also the option for thick timber (to match Peco & thick C&L) or thin sleeper (to match C&L thin or SMP track)

 

EM Gauge & option for 'DOGA fine '(1mm flangeway for those that want it) will follow, and I have also been considering 00-SF version.

00 Gauge DOGA fine shown in the pictures.

 

Fantastic to hear about EM options.

Kits and bits would be very welcome.

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by iak
Doh...

[foggyjames]

Thanks for your further thoughts, all!

 

cheers

 

James

[Andy Reichert]

On 12/11/2020 at 01:34, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

There is another option that I have been working on for the last 6 months which I will hopefully be releasing soon - 4mm version of Finetrax!

As usual, they come in kit form, but this version will come with the timber base with all the chairs pre installed as 1 moulded piece. It also has a completed cast crossing frog unit and pre milled switch blades.

 

Hoping to release the first kit (a B7) towards Christmas. More kits will follow, including diamonds, slips, X-Overs and 3-ways.

 

Sorry for the naff photos...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A very worthwhile project and well executed by the look of it.

 

I see you have included the platform projecting some distance in front of the crossing vee tip.  Why is that?

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wayne Kinney]

39 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

 

A very worthwhile project and well executed by the look of it.

 

I see you have included the platform projecting some distance in front of the crossing vee tip.  Why is that?

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Andy,

 

As per the prototype, although I have seen many variations in old pictures..

 

[martin_wynne]

Hi Wayne,

It's good to see the spacer blocks properly modelled, but make sure they are low enough to clear RTR wheel flanges.

 

Also good to see the blunt nose on the vee.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

[Andy Reichert]

Just now, martin_wynne said:

Hi Wayne,

It's good to see the spacer blocks properly modelled, but make sure they are low enough to clear RTR wheel flanges.

 

Also good to see the blunt nose on the vee.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

 

Actually having the extended nose platform set to the depth to just carry DOGA fine wheel flange tips  completely obviates any need for the extra skill and effort  of hand hand building for 00-SF. Blunt nosed vees or not.

 

I've made and shipped many thousands of so fitted blunt nosed vee crossings (88- safe frogs in USA) for almost the past 20 years, without a single user complaint or return. So I can vouch for that  being both an effective and far simpler engineering solution for running mixed RTR and "Finescale" wheels.  Apparently PECO are now using the same technique for their recent and very popular USA HO code 83 track system.

 

Andy