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The EWS livery, Success of failure


18B
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The only reason for even asking the question is in response to the Roundel Design, who designed the renowned Trainload Freight sector logos as well as the Res logo among many more, criticised EWS in five ways of how their method of coming up with a brand design for their company failed:

 

Applying a US livery;

Embracing an inappropriate name;

Inviting enthusiasts to design the company signature/brand;

Not having clear design criteria;

Not researching customer views.

 

What however are your views on this?

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1 hour ago, 18B said:

The only reason for even asking the question is in response to the Roundel Design, who designed the renowned Trainload Freight sector logos

 

To which I reply that personally those logos are known to me for my inability to decipher which sector each represents without looking them up, and that to me is a design failure.

 

On the other hand, the EWS logo was clear as to what it was.

 

 

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A difficult one, as the Roundel designs were about as good as liveries get and I don't think anything has come anywhere near as effective since, but that's just my viewpoint.

 

Edited by YesTor
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I struggle to understand why applying a US corporate colour scheme would make EWS fail?  If that was the case, somebody should tell G&W to back off in applying their house colours.

 

Ed Burkhardt was very warm towards rail fans and he saw them as, not individually but they might be management of a large company, therefore possible future customers.  So by inviting them to design a new logo, it started to reduce hostility that a US company had bought out a large part of the BR freight sector.
 

I remember reading about this at the time and I thought then, it was just sour grapes as did a large number of railway magazine’s.

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One could very well turn the question around and ask "what on earth were Roundel Design playing at when they designed the Rail Express Systems livery?". Being a graphic designer myself, every time I saw it I just thought WTF?

 

Can anyone here explain it to me (although, if a logo needs explanation it has totally failed IMO)?

 

David

 

PS What other liveries/logos have Roundel done?

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I don't see how they can say the EWS livery 'failed'?

It was simple and instantly recognisable, even if you couldn't read the EWS or number (i.e. too far away, at an awkward angle etc.)

The large numbers were also useful for identification of the loco (presumably for staff too and not just for spotters)

 

The Trainload sector markings were very clever but you had to know what they meant, otherwise they were all just grey locos with a graphic stuck on the side.

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7 hours ago, jools1959 said:

 If that was the case, somebody should tell G&W to back off in applying their house colours.

 

This should happen irrespective of anything to do with EWS, because the G&W livery is vile.

 

Jim

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Some of these design houses are plain lazy when it comes to design approach. In the bus industry there is one dominant design company which they all use, and pretty much got the same result each time so late 1980's wedges with pin stripes gave way to curved swoops of colour in the 1990's and became wavy lines in this millenium. Effectively once you'd seen one you could design your own and save yourself a six figure sum, although few operators cottoned onto this.

 

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Could anyone post images of the relevant Roundel design, logo, livery so that I can follow.

 

I've a few EWS / EW&S locos but would be keen to follow this to get a better understanding.

 

TIA

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1 hour ago, Damo666 said:

Could anyone post images of the relevant Roundel design, logo, livery so that I can follow.

 

I've a few EWS / EW&S locos but would be keen to follow this to get a better understanding.

 

TIA

 

Here you go. As I recall, the "stylised lumps of coal" referred to in this article were explicitly intended as "black diamonds".

 

https://thebeautyoftransport.com/2015/09/09/three-shades-of-grey-railfreight-1987-corporate-identity-roundel-design-group-uk/

 

Jim

 

 

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I always though the EWS livery was excellent. It suited every loco it was applied to, even the older machines. It looked superb on Class 47s.

 

The fact that such a perfect logo wasn't created by an established design house makes it even more remarkable, it was exactly what the company needed. Such a bright, striking livery and motif for what appeared to be a fresh new ambitious operator.

 

What followed was such a shame. EWS had it all and lost most of it...

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From a purely personal viewpoint I think the big failing (if you can even call it a failing) of the EWS livery was the base colour they use because it was a tone which very quickly looked dowdy and grubby without a lot of cleaning attention.  When it was new and shiny it looked good, but that impression didn't last well.  As far as individual loco types are concerned it definitely didn't suit Class 37s and was even worse looking on them than banger blue had been.

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Maroon was a classic colour on Britains railways (which I really like) - but why I'll never understand because reds are so difficult to apply and maintain. The earlier Railfreight red was even worse - soon turned pink. 

The logo was fine, but difficult to reproduce which may have been an advantage. I quite like cheap logos, I worked for a government lab that had a staff competion which came up with a logo that was soon instantly recognised worldwide within "our world" and easily applied to everything from stationery to vehicles. A change of agency and ownership led to the more usual "get the professionals in" and ended up with a non descript logo that nobody took any notice of. 

I really liked the Roundel three shades of gry and their associated range of logos. Suddenly there seemed to be more interest in freight, and it would appear that local staff took to having differentiation of 'their' locos and wagons - even to having depots bringing in their own ideas - the Barry boat, Courock Fox, Salmon trout and London Cockey sparra as examples. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/sector

G & W - well it is dramatic on the locos, but it is nice on the MWAs that park up locally - nicer than the green Freightliners. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/freightlinermwa/ec659dc10

Paul

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3 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Maroon was a classic colour on Britains railways (which I really like) - but why I'll never understand because reds are so difficult to apply and maintain. The earlier Railfreight red was even worse - soon turned pink. 

Whilst the reds are particularly prone to fading, the problem lessens with the darker shades, hence the use of maroon and crimson in preference to the bright reds. Even the London Transport reds (bus and underground were slightly different) were darker than pure red. The situation with  greens and blues was similar, and again it is the darker shades that were more common, not that blue was particularly common to start with.

 

Jim

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21 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Even the London Transport reds (bus and underground were slightly different) were darker than pure red.

 

Jim


When CO,CP, COP surface stock and the 38 tube stock went for their EHO (Extra Heavy Overhaul) in the late 70’s, early 80’s were painted in bus red with the standard white “bullseye” instead of the darker maroon.

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20 minutes ago, jools1959 said:


When CO,CP, COP surface stock and the 38 tube stock went for their EHO (Extra Heavy Overhaul) in the late 70’s, early 80’s were painted in bus red with the standard white “bullseye” instead of the darker maroon.

Yes, and looked quite different as a consequence. I remember them going through Acton Works at the time, whilst I was a young engineer in the CME's department.

 

Jim

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21 hours ago, 18B said:

criticised EWS in five ways of how their method of coming up with a brand design for their company failed:

 

Applying a US livery;

Definitely sour grapes.

The EWS maroon & gold has a long history in the U.S.A. It derived from the owning railroad &  then-current Wisconsin Central livery, which in turn was descended from the Soo Line livery for their first passenger diesels in the late 1940s.

 

 

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My opinion - 

advertising agencies have to justify themselves to themselves on a daily basis. The industry is unsustainable, pushes up prices onto the consumer and requires ignorance above knowledge.

If the high IQ sharps of the advertising agency put their brains to good use, for example in the field of politics, then ....no wait a moment...

 

 

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Quote

From a purely personal viewpoint I think the big failing (if you can even call it a failing) of the EWS livery was the base colour they use because it was a tone which very quickly looked dowdy and grubby without a lot of cleaning attention.  When it was new and shiny it looked good, but that impression didn't last well.  

 

I'd agree; Living in Keighley, I still see quite a few Sheds in faded, dirty EWS liveries head past on the mainline, and they're very drab and uninspiring.  By contrast though, the Worth Valley have their cut-cab 08 in EWS colours, and they keep it clean; it looks very striking indeed, shiny and bold.

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14 hours ago, Kylestrome said:

One could very well turn the question around and ask "what on earth were Roundel Design playing at when they designed the Rail Express Systems livery?". Being a graphic designer myself, every time I saw it I just thought WTF?

 

Can anyone here explain it to me (although, if a logo needs explanation it has totally failed IMO)?

 

David

 

PS What other liveries/logos have Roundel done?

Iirc
Red represented aligning  the colour to its primary customer (Royal Mail)

The blue blocks represented logistics (parcels).

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2 hours ago, Ben B said:

 

I'd agree; Living in Keighley, I still see quite a few Sheds in faded, dirty EWS liveries head past on the mainline, and they're very drab and uninspiring.  By contrast though, the Worth Valley have their cut-cab 08 in EWS colours, and they keep it clean; it looks very striking indeed, shiny and bold.

 

to be fair their paint scheme has lasted over 20 years...

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16 hours ago, keefer said:

I don't see how they can say the EWS livery 'failed'?

 

The Trainload sector markings were very clever but you had to know what they meant, otherwise they were all just grey locos with a graphic stuck on the side.

 

I kind of agree, I can't think of any logical reason to label EWS livery as a 'failure' - it looked incredibly smart when freshly applied, and okay perhaps it hasn't aged well, but then looking at some of the 66s still in red and gold and to be fair I think that any livery on any loco is going to look drab after 20 years without a repaint.  The livery certainly suited freight stock and of course 66s, although IMHO I never really felt that it suited many of the BR types - 58, 60, 37, 59s etc.

 

All that said, I'm a big fan of Roundel Design's Railfreight scheme.  It was well thought through right from inception - and at a time when dingy old Rail Blue prevailed, the new and exciting triple-grey with its bold and exciting symbols achieved the perfect balance between neutral shades and bright colour, and in perfect proportion to each other.  Okay, the symbols may not have necessarily been immediately obvious to the travelling public, but once you realize what they represent it's pretty obvious?  And the whole concept of depot plaques, with their localised symbols, as has been well-documented, gave reason for depots to take pride in their machines - it was a true breath of fresh air.  Personally, I thought the whole concept of deriving the basic colour schemes and logo styling from military aircraft design was magnificent - it was a bold, new livery back in the mid-eighties, without being gaudy, and just what the tired-looking railway needed at the time. 

 

Sadly, many of today's liveries seem to simply consist of railway companies competing to see who can produce the most vulgar, visual cacophony of purples, pinks and fluorescent oranges known to mankind, with little consideration for the prototype that the livery is supposedly conceived for, many of which simply seem to end up looking like nothing more than glorified advertising hoardings. 

 

So yeah, in short, I've no real aversion to the EWS 'image', although given a choice I'd repaint everything back into Roundel's greys any time...

 

Worksop Open Day 1993

 

Best

Al

 

Edited by YesTor
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