Slaters 6 wheel Midland coach kits.

[Andy Hayter]

Having eventually turned the contents of relatively flat plastic sprues into 3 D representations of a Midland clerestory coach body and having (after several aborted attempts) managed to get some lining that a blind man at 200 scale feet would not find too much fault with, I now have the problem of decals and what goes where.  The kits were purchased over 25 years ago and while I remember them being a special purchase at the time, £5.35 and £7.09 does seem a bargain by todays standards - ticket prices, so I probably managed to negotiate a small discount on top!

 

I have found a picture of the full brake and this shows "MR" in the central waist panel and the coach number close to the guards ducket in the upper panel.  However the lavatory brake 3rd is proving a problem.  I can find no pictures of the clerestory coach although pictures of the non-lavatory and non-clerestory coaches are around.

 

So to my questions:

 

I assume "third" was placed in the waist panel of each door and no MR crests for a third class coach.  Correct?  Or was a "3" placed on the lower door panel? 

Was the company indicated as "MR" or "Midland Railway" in the waist panel under the toilet windows?

Where was the coach running number placed?  

 

Any help or a picture is gratefully received.

 

[Andy Hayter]

Perhaps to avoid people wasting time I should add that I have consulted the following:

 

British Railway carriages of the 20th century vol 1 - Jenkinson

LMS coach drawings - Campling

150 years of Railway Carriages - Kichenside

Midland Railway Carriages vol 1 - Lacy and Dow

Midland Carriages - Jenkinson and Essery

[Nick Holliday]

I suspect you need to consult the HMRS Midland Style, if you can find a copy.  The whole carriage livery subject is littered with "most" and "some", with nothing absolutely definite. If you have a six-wheel clerestory roof brake third, then I suspect that the drawing and photo in Vol 1 of Lacy and Dow will give you a pretty accurate picture of how your vehicle would have been painted, but without any crest, reserved for first class and composite carriages.  Although the similar brake vans only sported M. R. as did many earlier arc-roofed six-wheelers, most clerestory roofed ones carried MIDLAND.  From August 1906 the class lettering was replaced by the "3" on the lower door panel. 

[Andy Hayter]

Many thanks for that Nick.  I think the maybes, mosts and somes gives me the basis to make a start with the strong possibility that no one will know better.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Andy Hayter

[Poor Old Bruce]

It may depend on what time period you are working in. In later Midland and early LMS days, the vogue was for the large class numbers on the door panels.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Poor Old Bruce

[Andy Hayter]

My timespan covers the 1906 start of  a move to "3" so I will adopt that to allow the coaches to run with later locomotives.  While there are anachronisms between trains seen side by side, I do try and get the train consist consistent.  

[Compound2632]

I'm slightly confused as to exactly which kits you are referring to but I infer you have the 31 ft clerestory brake, D530, and the 31 ft clerestory lavatory third, D492, as these were the only two clerestory 6-wheelers Slaters did, having the same underframe components as their arc-roof 6-wheelers.

 

The 1906 livery as applied to square-light clerestories is illustrated in Essery & Jenkinson's book by Plates 133 and 136, both showing bogie carriages. The word MIDLAND (in serif)was on the black background of the eves beading, a section of which was made deeper to accommodate it - coming down to the top of the windows. The Ratio clerestories represent this nicely. In the absence of photographs of D492, I'd be inclined to follow the example of the D483 bogie lavatory third in Plate 133, spanning the lavatory window and the panel either side. This carriage has its number in its original position, mid-way up the panel between the end passenger compartment and the next - a bit of a squeeze for a 4-digit number on the narrow panel between two thirds! The D533 carriage in plate 136 has its number twice in the waist, in the same position relative to the end, between the first two passenger compartments.

 

For the pre-1906 livery for D492, follow the illustrations of the other diagrams of square-light clerestory 6-wheelers in Lacy & Dow. I think the armorial device was reserved for composites and firsts, never being used on all thirds or full brakes.

 

The D530 brake is a bit more difficult to be sure about, although there is only the number and the word MIDLAND to worry about. Originally MIDLAND (in sans-serif) was in the centre of the long waist panel between the double doors at the LH end and the guards door, with the number mid-way up the panel above. I've had a hunt through my collection of photos - these vans are less often at the front of trains than one might expect - but even in photos that are pos-1907 by a few years, MIDLAND is always in the waist. The number may have moved to appear twice, in the waist panel just outboard of the double doors. A small number of 6-wheel brake vans built in 1913, nominally the same as D530 but with round-cornered panelling in the standard Bain style an no clerestory, have the lettering in the waist panel, all sans-serif, laid out as described.

 

Hope that helps; if anything is obscure through fewer than a thousand words being less clear than a picture, please ask!

Edited July 9, 2020 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

21 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

I have found a picture of the full brake and this shows "MR" in the central waist panel and the coach number close to the guards ducket in the upper panel. 

 

 

That surprises me. My understanding is that the word MIDLAND was used on all square-light clerestories and on all Bain's carriages, the initials M.R being reserved for the older arc-roofed carriages. Where is this photo?

[Andy Hayter]

Oops I think you are right.  The result of looking at far too many photographs and the mind becoming completely addled as a result.  

Thanks for the correction before I had made the error of starting to apply the decals.