David_Belcher Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I recently bought 2 bodies - the later type that you can take a spirit level to without fretting about it - one kitchen parlour, one brake parlour. They might be GF factory seconds (maybe from the time of winding down the Masons Hill factory??) as one has roof paint overspray on the umber part, and one is fully printed with crests, lining and Pullman lettering...but no cream paint to be seen! The table lamps are missing too. The underframes were included but no bogies or battery boxes. The intention is to turn the kitchen parlour into "Iolanthe" with MJT 10' bogies, the brake parlour will be a 3rd Class one, no.95 on Hornby 6-wheel bogies. I found the correct buffers/buffer beams (Keen Systems) in my bits box, which improves things a little. The lack of roof detail means a lot of fiddly but not difficult work, a few photos should help. Various bodged bits of Farish and Tri-ang coaches should take care of details below the solebars. Thanks to Alex (AVS1998) for allowing me to pick her brains a bit to get the ball rolling on this one. With the Duchess and the Black 5 on the go, plus a Fairburn tank (bashed Wrenn) in for a repaint, I have a very full workbench* at the moment!! David *It's actually an IKEA coffee table. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I have the Bk/third. It's way down the 'to do' list. There is also a complete set of the earlier cars (or at least the First Class - the brake and CIWL cars are rather rare). All suffer in a greater or lesser degree from the usual defects of the breed). My first coach was a Farish Pullman - 'Pauline'. My 'Duchess of Atholl was just about capable of pulling it! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I did up one of their N gauge (well, actually nearer 2mm scale) brake versions back around 1980. It looked better with the 6 wheels bogies (Con-Cor or Atlas, I think). 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, BernardTPM said: I did up one of their N gauge (well, actually nearer 2mm scale) brake versions back around 1980. It looked better with the 6 wheels bogies (Con-Cor or Atlas, I think). That's impressive stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 They were excellent models for their time. As a child, I was very proud of mine until it developed a series of curves.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncf231e Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 In the seventies Graham Farish made their latest 00 models of a Pullman Parlour car and a Third-Class Brake. Earlier versions of these cars were made from material which after some time lost its shape and resulted in deformed carriages. This later cars, catalogue number B64 for the Parlour class and B65 for the Brake still look good. More pictures (also of many other Pullman car models) in my (free to download) e-book on luxury trains: http://sncf231e.nl/non-ciwl-luxury-trainssmall/ Regards Fred 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, sncf231e said: In the seventies Graham Farish made their latest 00 models of a Pullman Parlour car and a Third-Class Brake. Earlier versions of these cars were made from material which after some time lost its shape and resulted in deformed carriages. This later cars, catalogue number B64 for the Parlour class and B65 for the Brake still look good. More pictures (also of many other Pullman car models) in my (free to download) e-book on luxury trains: http://sncf231e.nl/non-ciwl-luxury-trainssmall/ Regards Fred Thanks for posting, Fred. IIRC there were 3 phases - the 50s acetate & mazak ones that warped, the 60s ones with styrene bodies/underframes but diecast bogies & battery boxes that didn't warp, and finally the 70s styrene ones that had a lot more plastic content in the chassis. David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdp Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I think the brake vehicle is closest a representative of cars 94 or 95 (although I do not think even these two were quite the same) but even then not an exact match as I do not think these vehicles narrow over the doors. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 Current state of play: Keen buffers/beams added, gangway ends (butchered old-style Hornby Gresleys) fitted and gaps made good with Milliput, underframe detail fitted - Farish trussing/battery boxes on Iolanthe, chopped-about Triang (brass wire trussing still to do) 'shortie' Mk1 battery box etc. unit on the brake. Still need to fathom out how to get the Hornby 6-wheel bogies to fit the latter!! 4-wheel MJTs on Iolanthe should be easier to do. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 14 hours ago, AVS1998 said: Good evening David, This sounds like excellent work so far! I'd suggest grinding/cutting off the old Farish screw-in mounts as they're not spaced correctly for the 6 wheel bogie, and instead grafting on a pair of Hornby plug/socket style bogie mounts at the correct intervals, with holes drilled accordingly for lighting pick up if you so desire. I'm glad you found my advice helpful - it's reassuring to know someone can comprehend what I come out with! I look forward to seeing the end result, Alex. Sounds like tricky work...might be one for the New Year. I do need to pop a pic or two up of what's been done so far, although I've been a bit distracted by loco builds/repaints and the ICI hopper project. For the kitchen/parlour car I eventually managed to get hold of some Keen Systems bogie kits cheaply, which are easy to build and look ideal. The MJT white metal ones turned out to be cosmetic sideframes only, should have read the eBay listing properly. Oops. Still no idea what to do about glazing, might have to resort to old-fashioned recessed windows. David 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 Progress so far: GF bodies (poss. factory seconds?) with added Hornby LNER-type gangways. Brake underframe with Tri-ang details but no truss rodding yet. Hornby 6wh bogies for brake, Keen 4wh for kitchen. David 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 By coincidence, over on Twitter, one of the railway-heavy accounts I follow posted a pic of a somewhat demoted 12wh Clayton-built Pullman brake of a similar type recently. I'll probably use it as a point of reference for some of the underframe details: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 16 hours ago, AVS1998 said: David, I've just replied to your comment on Twitter, but I'll repeat it here for posterity. It's an excellent photo, but you'll want to be wary using it for detail inspiration due to underframe equipment changes during the conversion, such as the fitting of what looks to be a handbrake and removal of battery boxes, possibly. I did think that extra brake gear looked odd. Should do as a reference for the truss rodding though. David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 The newest arrival - a boxed 3rd gen (all plastic, Dorset factory) "Iolanthe". Tempted to leave the bodyside factory finish alone on this one (although the crest printing is a tad crude)? Metal wheels already done, roof detail, couplers, Keen buffer beams and gangway ends still to sort, also the upper recessed panels on the coach ends which need blocking up & painting. Glazing units temporarily removed, double sided tape had expired. David 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) Here's a selection of GF ads from early 50's Model Railway News. Wagon Lits variety available in '51 and the brake end version in '52. NYC loco rather more expensive than King and MN locos - but it was rather larger! Did it have the 'trembler' motor or something more conventional? Edited January 29, 2021 by 5050 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 5050 said: Sorry, total c*ck up with the quote and edit features!! Edited January 29, 2021 by 5050 Brain fade..................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) The motor is actually quite ingenious being two pole (why it won't start!) with a magnetic bias which is supposed to stop the armature with the poles vertical, at right angles to the horizontal magnetic field. A centrifugal clutch automatically disconnects the drive to allow this. Two microswitches reverse the current through the windings. These latter are rather delicate.... I have a feeling this was to steer through purchase tax regulations, then quite complex, unlike today's VAT which is tax everything at the then luxury rate*. I notice that its possible abolition was never mentioned as an advantage of leaving the EU. (About the only one IMHO.) *There are a few exceptions. I like the "only £9 5s 0d" for the N.Y.C. Hudson! (Something like £275 in today's devalued currency - it was 2.8 US$ to £1 then (devalued from the pre-war 4) Here we have the complete early range, apart from the 3 rail Formo 0-6-0 and wagons - van, 7 plank open, steel mineral, and brake (The GP5 seems to have disappeared). 2 rail there were these four, 5 plank open, 3 plank open, match, and bolster. AFAIK the Formo wagons only came in grey, chocolate, grey and bauxite respectively whereas the 2 rail were available in all three colours apart from the brake van which only came in bauxite (I'm not sure about the steel mineral; I've only seen grey and bauxite examples.) The GP5 was originally illustrated with 4 wheel suburban coaches and an impressive list of wagons. The coaches may have appeared (not that I recall ever having seen one), but a good proportion of the wagons never made it. (Losing a war on the other side of the planet was more important than model railways!) Sorry if politics raised its ugly head above the surface, but it is relevant. Edited January 30, 2021 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Funnily enough, when Farish launched their range of N gauge wagons there were a few that never appeared, like the short double bolster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 17 hours ago, BernardTPM said: Funnily enough, when Farish launched their range of N gauge wagons there were a few that never appeared, like the short double bolster. I bought a bundle of early 70s MRCs years ago with GF ads on the back cover featuring said never-were wagons. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, David_Belcher said: I bought a bundle of early 70s MRCs years ago with GF ads on the back cover featuring said never-were wagons. David An expensive way to run a business, to have full page ads on the back cover, often in colour, then not make the models available! Was the marketing side running the business? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 GF Formo advert from '53. Wagons and track included. And a good example of how I feel on occasions! Plenty of other period GF ads (and editorials) in my files. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Interesting! The wagon pictures are the 2 rail ones, though the reduced prices suggest Formo. The underframe was modified to eliminate the separate brake gear axleguard unit and the wheels run in tinplate inside bearing units incorporating the coupling and secured with a screw. The wheels have an awful profile which derails easily, unlike the 2 rail ones, which themselves are not up to much. I bought two* about five years on for 4/6d each, but they were not a great success on HD track. My skills/tool kit at the time did not run to removing the wheels from the axles and replacing with better. (One detached itself I recall.) Fixing Peco couplings (1/6d) on K's adapters (9d) made them expensive wagons. *My schoolfriend wanted one, but declined the purchase, so I got lumbered with both! The track is similar and will connect to Dublo, but the length and radius are different as is the rail material which is steel. 9d seems rather a lot extra for a short piece of twin twisted grey wire soldered on underneath. In the set (I paid 35/- for mine new to clear) you got the loco, tender, one each of the wagons, 12 curved rails and two straights, one with the bit of wire. I have one of the vans suffering from zinc pest. The underframe is broken off and the sides have warped inwards. An attempt to straighten one produced the inevitable fracture. It serves as a grounded van body in the yard. Edited January 31, 2021 by Il Grifone 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 22 hours ago, Il Grifone said: The motor is actually quite ingenious being two pole (why it won't start!) with a magnetic bias which is supposed to stop the armature with the poles vertical, at right angles to the horizontal magnetic field. A centrifugal clutch automatically disconnects the drive to allow this. Two microswitches reverse the current through the windings. These latter are rather delicate.... I like the "only £9 5s 0d" for the N.Y.C. Hudson! (Something like £275 in today's devalued currency - it was 2.8 US$ to £1 then (devalued from the pre-war 4) Description of the King and its motor. Model Railway News December '51. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 And also this price list from October '51. What was the 'Finger Tip Control' item?? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) The Finger Tip Control would have been a controller, presumably a variable resistance and a d.p.s.t. switch. 7/6d would have been quite reasonable, though rather more than it seems. There was probably some tax fiddle avoidance in the name. Trains (toys for the idiots in high places*) were taxed as a luxury item, but electrical gear zero-rated (IIRC). Train sets omitted power supplies for this reason. The 'King' came with various names, but they were all '6000' (crudely embossed in the cab sides). I recall the Pullmans as costing 28/6d. Either faulty memory (not impossible) or a price/tax increase (more likely). In 1951, blue was still the BR livery for Kings and Merchant Navies. Several shillings for a couple of arrows seems a bit OTT though. * Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. (Slanderous) Those who are completely useless , go into politics. (Colour immaterial). Edited January 31, 2021 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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