LightBrigade Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Hello everyone, My question is - what would the ground surface around the rail tracks in an 1890s-1900s UK dockyard be? Concrete, cobbles, paving, other...? I'm building a small super-micro layout (link to follow once I do a build log) as a bit of a combination lockdown project and return to the hobby after a couple of decades and practice board before I mess up too much on a bigger project! Having treated myself to the Dapol B4 Guernsey in the original dark green (which I believe I read somewhere on here is representative of her in about 1897) and a couple of LSWR wagon kits, I'd like to model something believable for a small corner tucked away of Southampton Docks. To that end I would like to model the tracks inset into the yard surface for road vehicle/rail dual use as is often seen in industrial and dockyard settings. I'm finding it hard to find many photos with identifiable surfaces that definitely date from that sort of period. Some reading up online suggests concrete may have been used at that time although fairly new. City streets apparently would likely have been paved with granite setts or cobbles, and the surfaces in more rural settings may have been graded gravel macadam-style or just gravel or even mud. All of which would require rather different approaches to modelling them! Does anyone have any information on what might have been in place at Southampton? Any information appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornishKnocker Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I would say that it would be cobbles or granite setts 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted July 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2020 Pete the mole probably knows and where the pictures are. You can find him on the early risers thread in the wheel tappers topic. Use the PM function to contact him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoz Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 12 hours ago, CornishKnocker said: I would say that it would be cobbles or granite setts That, or possibly heavy balks of timber, which were (and still are in some places) common on the actual wharf itself 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Looking in the pictures of 150 years of Southampton Dock (Bert Moody), it varies. Large coping stones at the top of the dock wall, with granite sets or gravel paving for the surface (the later probably in less heavily trafficked areas). Jetties commonly wooden. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb_devon Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Agree with all the above. Also ash, as this would be plentiful from steam boilers (on ships as well as ashore). Definately not concrete though! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Not a brilliant view, but it appears to be gravel for Ipswich docks in the early 1900's - particularly with an apparent uneven surface and lots of puddles. The only cobbles or metalled surface is on the main roadway (Bridge St) that crosses left to right... This slightly later photo shows the surface better... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBrigade Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Fantastic, many thanks everyone! I'll probably go with setts/cobbles on a more trafficked "road"-like section alongside the loading dock, and gravel otherwise except for maybe timber around some complicated bits. @Johann Marsbar, those Ipswich photos are brilliant visual reference. @skipepsi I will follow up with Peter too, thanks for the pointer. Edited July 11, 2020 by LightBrigade corrected typo on timber Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted July 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2020 Hi, my virtual ears are burning! The photos I have access to since retirement are mostly in books. The most useful for this topic is Southern Rails on Southampton Docks by Ian Drummond. Photos of the general docks area c1900 show a fairly uniform flat surface, possibly concrete or rolled macadam. In the actual dockside areas the tracks are set into this. I observed some machine-dug holes in the earliest part of the Old Docks (c1840+) but don't recollect any cobbles or setts beneath layers of concrete. Interestingly we located and recovered some massive timber piles with iron points at the bottoms. GPS and digital mapping showed that these were on the lines of the earliest railway tracks at the dockside and were interpreted as support for the tracks in the then freshly reclaimed land overlying tidal mud. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 There’s good stuff about the construction of part of Southampton here http://titanicgazette.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-huge-new-dock-at-southampton.html?m=1 I wouldn’t dismiss concrete as a surface even from quite an early date, because dock engineers were big-time users of the stuff in structural work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crofts Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) Plymouth, Sutton Harbour. Recent pictures but the NLS maps suggest this is just right for your era if you want setts/cobbles. (my photos) NLS map extract: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5db4shjdh32ajtt/NLS map 1912.jpg?dl=0 Edited July 19, 2020 by Michael Crofts Uploaded photos instead of placing links 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pb_devon Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Just to highlight the fact that (in the second image) is said to be the only Broad Gauge track remaining insitu. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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