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How not to solder, American style.


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8 hours ago, jpendle said:

The rest of the 'show' is a glorified swapmeet with 50 or 60 traders all selling the same old, bloody awful, second hand Lionel tat, that is only fit for the bin highly desirable vintage Lionel trains.

 

Maybe one or two traders selling new stuff.

 

Regards,

 

John P

I must admit that I had been very unimpressed by the US approach to recycling - until I went to a US train show.  

I was also struck by the presence of a local cop at the event, armed to the teeth but rather well upholstered and evidently not built for "hot pursuit". 

Best wishes 

Eric 

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10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

I don't think it's fair to say he's typical. There are many examples of superb work, scenic work and wiring included, on YouTube and online blogs.

 

Ken Patterson does tend to rush through various processes when demonstrating techniques for the What's Neat YouTube video magazine.

Maybe that's a typical style of presenting over there. Full on full speed to cram it all in.

What he is good at though, is that he's a very good photographer of model railroads and some of the episodes of this monthly magazine, contain quite informative content.

 

As for claiming some sort of superiority in British modelling?

Don't make me laugh !

There's plenty of bodge it work here as well.

Alongside good to excellent modelling, many a typical UK exhibition usually consists of 50% mediocre, poor or substandard work. Even some total rubbish.

(disclaimer: you might justifiably dismiss my own efforts as rubbish)

Having said that, from my limited knowledge of US exhibitions, which is admittedly only gleaned from the internet, they appear to be very poor for the standard of layouts, in comparison with the exhibition circuit in the UK

It's the home and club layouts where the real action appears to be...and there are plenty of stunning, high quality pieces of work in evidence.

 

 

 

.

 

I agree. The quality of American modelling often puts us to shame. I've spent a lot of time in the States and have visited some incredible layouts, with scratchbuilt locos and stock. Superb hand built trackwork with amazing scenery.

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1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

I agree. The quality of American modelling often puts us to shame. I've spent a lot of time in the States and have visited some incredible layouts, with scratchbuilt locos and stock. Superb hand built trackwork with amazing scenery.

 

Just as a question: Is this modelling at 0 or H0 scale? To my untrained eye, there seems to be a lot more aimed at the senior scale - I have assumed because of the availability of somewhat huuuuuge man-caves over in the States.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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I have on occasion in the past bought Model Railroader, both in the UK and on trips for photography across the Pond. Obviously there are some excellent modellers and layouts in the US, presumably though most of them never leave home. One thing about the generally larger US houses is that there is more space for a large layout, IIRC cellars are much more in use, so greater size means less likely to be transportable.

 

Decades ago I remember buying some Kalmbach videos, the one on Airbrushing remains the best exposition of the subject I've ever come across, and I've lent it to a few friends over the years to help them get started. So the quality of the hobby on that side of the Atlantic is IMHO commensurate at least with anything over here.

 

John.

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1 hour ago, Philou said:

 

Just as a question: Is this modelling at 0 or H0 scale? To my untrained eye, there seems to be a lot more aimed at the senior scale - I have assumed because of the availability of somewhat huuuuuge man-caves over in the States.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Overwhelmingly HO. Even if you have a large space for a layout, if you want to depict the 'average' US freight train with multiple engines and 100+ cars, some compromise is going to be needed. Plus, they tend to model a 'Route' in that sort of space so trains can go from one place to another, as thats what trains do. Lack of space in the UK means we focus on modelling a 'Place' & the trains that go through it. It's just a different approach, that's all.

Also in the US 3-Rail O Gauge never went away; imagine if Hornby had never gone from O gauge to OO in the UK, what might the impact have been? So that's what dominates that scale, and 2-Rail models and layouts are quite rare. 

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@F-UnitMad  Thanks for that. Because the layouts tend to be on the rather large size, I find it a little difficult to scale. Having said that there is, of course the give-away of the third rail.

 

I think you may have mentioned in another thread, the modelling of 'short' routes?

 

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

Also in the US 3-Rail O Gauge never went away; imagine if Hornby had never gone from O gauge to OO in the UK, what might the impact have been? So that's what dominates that scale, and 2-Rail models and layouts are quite rare

 

Interesting what you suggest - a 'what if' scenario of 0 gauge remaining the senior scale in the UK. I probably would not have had an interest in railways as my Hornby layout, whilst not being large, could not remain in a permanent setup as it was always laid on the floor, and then put away again at the end of the day - the day being restricted to a wet Saturday afternoon :(.

 

HOWEVER, having seen what is now available in UK outline in 0, it does look very tempting. There is one chap at our club that has done a small French terminus (a BLT) in 0 that is probably is no longer than 1.8m in total length with a 'Micheline' for passenger work, and a small diesel that just shunts a couple of wagons - it looks gorgeous! (He did exhibit it at a show in the UK a couple of years ago and won a prize too).

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

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6 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Just as a question: Is this modelling at 0 or H0 scale? To my untrained eye, there seems to be a lot more aimed at the senior scale - I have assumed because of the availability of somewhat huuuuuge man-caves over in the States.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

In my experience it is all scales of 3.5mm upwards though I've also seen some superb N Gauge layouts.

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The huge basement or warehouse layouts are only part of the story. People tend to think everything is huge in America. Probably 60% of private layouts are of a size that most of us can contemplate. Though they are also very big on layouts on 2 or more levels, which theyve developed to a fine art. 

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A fair number of layouts that I have seen at shows here in Canada are of the modular design type.  This means that club members can build a modest number of modules at home and bring them together for exhibitions to produce a large layout.  Of course since everyone has their own style and skill set, such layouts tend to be very disjointed.  These layouts almost invariably consist of long trains plodding along interminably with little in the way of shunting or any other operation.  Lay punters tend to be drawn to these sorts of things and are put off by shunting layouts.  (To be fair our British club layout is much the same at shows, trains running frenetically without any attempt to do anything prototypically, even though it has working signals).  I much prefer a shunting layout.

 

I have seen one or two really good exhibition layouts but the majority tend to be mediocre IMO.

 

John

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The guy who fitted the cut and shunt decoder is in my opinion a really brave person knowing how litigious American's are. Now this is not a train story but it illustrates my point

Reminds me of the story in the 70's of a man  who bought a Winnibago. The salesman expounded on how great the cruise control was and told him it virtually drove it's self. So on his first trip out in it he took it on the freeway and then decided to have a coffee. He put it in cruise control and went off to make a coffee. As you can guess you know what happened next. It ploughed straight off the freeway. Now you and I would know that there was at the time no such thing as an autodrivie road vehicle. This guy obviously did not. To cut a long story short he took the Winnibago manufacturers and the dealership to court over the fact that it crashed and won. So it just goes to show you should be very careful about what you say as there is always some idiot who will listen and do what you say. Then come after you for being made to look like such a complete and absolute pillock.

Shame about destroying a working loco though.

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There are some very good ideas from across the pond we could usefully adopt over here.  Its all very well sneering at the US types trying to recreate 100 car freights with shorter formations when we represent 100 wagon trains with 15 wagons and a van.  At least their locos will actually pull a full length train.   They also tend to run a lot fewer trains, just like US railroads, few and long, over difficult terrain often on single track.  Which is why DCC is so important over there. Imagine trying to run four diesels off one side of a H&M Duette.  It not going to happen and if it does one will be slipping furiously while the others barely move.   I know, I had to use 2 X Triang transformers to move even a three loco DC lash up.  The way Americans use their track is also interesting, using lay byes for passing, even branch junctions with trains moving on the same line in close proximity, impossible with conventional DC, and their storage tracks are something else, even if they tend to have fewer trains, same number of cars and locos but in fewer but longer consists, and don't forget all those small rail connected industries they love shunting from the main line. no Thomas and Perky playing with trucks while Gordon hurtles round with the "Mid Day Scotch."  I would love a US style UK layout depicting the never wazza Isle  of Skye railway from Portree to Kyleakin with branches down towards a crossing to Mallaig and mineral branch north of Portree.

 Their scenery 30 years ago was beyond anything we have, Gorre and Dapheteid, floor to ceiling scenery,    I actually found the initial video incredibly useful. Inspiring even. Hot craft knife for plastic, absolutely brilliant.   

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2 hours ago, cypherman said:

Reminds me of the story in the 70's of a man  who bought a Winnibago. The salesman expounded on how great the cruise control was and told him it virtually drove it's self. So on his first trip out in it he took it on the freeway and then decided to have a coffee. He put it in cruise control and went off to make a coffee. As you can guess you know what happened next. It ploughed straight off the freeway. Now you and I would know that there was at the time no such thing as an autodrivie road vehicle. This guy obviously did not. To cut a long story short he took the Winnibago manufacturers and the dealership to court over the fact that it crashed and won.

 

Just like the "poodle in the microwave" story, the Winnebago tale (and it's many many variants) is just urban legend. It didn't happen.

Edited by 57xx
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14 minutes ago, 5050 said:

Err, that means it did.  I'm sure you didn't actually mean that didn't you:rolleyes:

 

I didn't, diddle I. Silly typo. :)

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1 hour ago, DavidCBroad said:

I would love a US style UK layout depicting the never wazza Isle  of Skye railway from Portree to Kyleakin with branches down towards a crossing to Mallaig and mineral branch north of Portree.

 Their scenery 30 years ago was beyond anything we have, Gorre and Dapheteid, floor to ceiling scenery,    I actually found the initial video incredibly useful. Inspiring even. Hot craft knife for plastic, absolutely brilliant.   

 

Some of the best British layouts are (smaller scale) versions of that format. I always like Jas Millham's S scale ex-GER branchline layout, which is a complete self contained branch railway along the lines of those US systems. 

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1 hour ago, 57xx said:

 

Just like the "poodle in the microwave" story, the Winnebago tale (and it's many many variants) is just urban legend. It didn't happen.

Hi all,

I know but it is such a great story to illustrate the letigious nature of American society. Unfortunately British society seems to be going the same way. This can be seen by all the ambulance chasing adverts on tv. There is no such thing as an accident now. just some way to make extra money. No such thing as justice just how much money you can make from it. Such a shame.

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The US modelling scene is very different to what many UK modellers do.  It is almost exclusively RTR, including some ready built brass locos.  I am not aware of any loco kits of any type, just boxcar kits, building and scenic kits.  There are some very good laser-cut structure models.  A lot of effort goes into painting/refinishing RTR items.  HO is the predominant scale for serious detail modellers.  There is also a course S scale following and of course O scale three rail Lionel and two rail LGB.

 

As far as soldering goes, there is only one brand of low melt solid solder available, Tix, at 275F/135C, it is very good but expensive, together with the Tix flux.  All other solders are normal high temp electrical types with rosin core or thick solid plumbers type which I use for adding weight to wagons etc.  Other than Tix flux I use inexpensive and environmentally friendly flux sold for stained glass/lead artwork, it washes off easily and no noxious fumes.  There are a few white metal kits, I built a 1/48th Model T Ford but used my own solder imported from the UK.

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My impression regarding kits matches yours Jeff.  RTR and H0 for the most part here.

 

I did see some 0 gauge stuff at a show a while back.  Rather sad, being a Big Boy on an oval with, I think, 3' radius curves.

 

I did get some solder and flux, Tix, from my local hobby shop.  I didn't like the solder, suspect it is lead free, but the flux is fine.

 

John

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Well, industry has moved to lead-free so you'd better hope that the next time you fly on a relatively new aircraft, that the manufacturers of the various electronic items controlling the aircraft have specified a good quality lead-free solder......✈

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1 minute ago, Jeff Smith said:

Well, industry has moved to lead-free so you'd better hope that the next time you fly on a relatively new aircraft, that the manufacturers of the various electronic items controlling the aircraft have specified a good quality lead-free solder......✈

 

, and also hope I haven't done the plumbing with lead free crap!!

 

Mike.

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