Wills Track Cleaner and Llandudno Model Railway

[cessna152towser]

Our 1961 family holiday took us to Llandudno where I was fascinated by Lou Nadin's extensive 00 gauge model railway in a loft in Garage Street.  I remember there was a large continuous oval, with a hump yard in the centre, and an industrial end to end line in the foreground.  While there my dad bought for me a Wills Track Cleaning Wagon kit.    I recall we assembled it once we were home and it was painted a mid blue colour with gilt waterslide transfers either side, which had been intended for kitchen jars, so it was lettered "sugar" on one side and "pepper" on the other, or something equally similar and incorrect.   The cleaning filters were actually cigarette filter tips.   When I started university in 1969 I joined a model railway club in Glasgow and soon sold the track cleaner to another member.   I had long forgotten it until last year I spotted among an eBay spares or repair job lot a Wills Track Cleaner.   Job lot duly purchased complete with one unpainted track cleaner, fitted with the optional Triang type couplers, but missing its cleaning filters and with two holes in the floor where it was missing the imitation metal taps above the cylinders which would have held the cleaning filters.   Last week while browsing for something else, I happened on an eBay listing for Wills Track Cleaner accessories, boxed, for £4.99 plus postage.    This arrived this morning, the correct box, complete with original typescript instruction sheet and accessory bag containing cleaning filters, the whitemetal taps and the alternative pin type couplings.   This afternoon the Track Cleaning Wagon has been up and down my layout behind a Wrenn 8F 2-8-0, doing the purpose for which it was originally intended.  

[Il Grifone]

I didn't realise they actually worked! 

 

I have one done as a SECR 3 plank open wagon  (by someone else before I bought it*) and one of the ready assembled ones by Wills themselves (IIRC this lacks the two 'brake stands' used for operating the brushes on the real thing.

The mythical Dublo track cleaning wagon copied the cleaning method using the die-cast mineral wagon as a basis.

 

* I believe they were converted from ballast wagons rather than merchandise wagons.

 

Somewhere on RMweb there is a thread on the real wagons.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The ready made versions have the couplings for Tri-ang or Hornby Dublo.

 

I'm not sure if any other types were offered...

 

We've got some in a box somewhere...

[5050]

When I red the first post I thought I was going to read that the one on e-bay was lettered 'sugar' and 'pepper' and it was the OP's original!

 

Sarah, when you say 'some', this presumes 'several'.  I thought these were like the proverbial rocking horse excrement and that they had all (or nearly all obviously) been dumped in the Mersey when Meccano went bust.  Can't say I've ever seen an actual example.

[Il Grifone]

I think Sarah was referring to the Wills R-T-R wagon, which is not uncommon. It has a sort of central peg affair which will hook into a tension lock (and maybe a Mk II ?) or a Peco/HD/Trix (as long as it pulls).

 

I think the HD one is rare because they never made very many. It was one of the top management's bright ideas, which i doubt had much enthusiasm lower down in the organisation. Sales were unlikely to be high,  seeing there were already the Tri-ang and Wills efforts. I doubt that the production run was more than a thousand. Perhaps someone has the actual figure? I don't recall ever having seen one. A replica (fake) is on the to do list when I can find a suitable candidate for conversion. The thing shows typical Meccano Ltd. overkill. All it needed was a standard die-cast mineral wagon with the fittings for the fag filters. There was no need for the special transfers etc.

 

The dumping in the Mersey is probably a myth. AFAIK it was illegal even then. The brass in the 3 rail track  surely would have had a reasonable scrap value?

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Nope, not the Hornby Dublo track cleaning wagons!

 

It's the Wills ones we have at least two off, one is a 'ready made' one in a Wills box, another one is a bit battered, and may well have been a kit one.

 

From what I recall, nothing was actually dumped in the River Mersey itself...

 

But a lot of rubble and other stuff was used on some work on the docks, next to the Mersey.

 

 

[locomad2]

Interesting as I've had a "fake" hd track cleaning wagon in use for past 30 years, purchased the wagon as a known fake it's now lost the side plate and fake cleaning brush. As a track cleaner it works very well, current use IPA, or medical ethanol, the real problem is the correct fag filter, over the years large filters have become harder to source, fortunately I came across a packet of "make your known" King size which should last a lifetime. A tight fit is idea as you don't want to much liquid on the track and half a wagon full should last 75 yards of track, another tip is to cut off few mm of the filter every few minutes and push the filters down to get a clean tip. A good clean 3- 4 times a year really does improve running, vacuum first then use the wagon, any extra use a cotton rag on end of finger dipped in ethanol. I don't like rubbers or wet & dry it scratches the track surface. Around points are the worst and rubber tyres add to the problem. I've tried the triang one, differcult to use and the pad often jams, or loses fibres, plus heavy on cleaning liquid.

[Il Grifone]

Is the brush part of the panel over the door? I keep meaning to 'make a fake', but need to find a (cheap) donor. I assume it should have the Delrin couplings. These would probably cost more than the wagon, so It'll probably keep the metal ones or maybe a Wills type hook on one end

I've got some fag filters somewhere (bought for the Wills wagon). I'll probably need to buy some more....

 

IIRC the recommended cleaning fluid was carbon tetrachloride. I will definitely not be using that!

[Silverfox17]

From what I read the Dublo one was quickly made when one of Mecanno's managers passed a shop display with a Dublo layout but a Tri-ang track cleaning car was used on it which did not go down well with management. They did not want any of Tri-ang's ideas so copied the Wills method. True or not I don't know. 

 

I did read dumping in the Mersey was a myth (it would have cost them a lot to hire a boat to do it to start with) but used as hardcore/rubble was genuine. Again true or false I don't know. 

 

Garry 

[BrushVeteran]

On 11/07/2020 at 16:33, cessna152towser said:

Our 1961 family holiday took us to Llandudno where I was fascinated by Lou Nadin's extensive 00 gauge model railway in a loft in Garage Street.  I remember there was a large continuous oval, with a hump yard in the centre, and an industrial end to end line in the foreground.  While there my dad bought for me a Wills Track Cleaning Wagon kit.    I recall we assembled it once we were home and it was painted a mid blue colour with gilt waterslide transfers either side, which had been intended for kitchen jars, so it was lettered "sugar" on one side and "pepper" on the other, or something equally similar and incorrect.   The cleaning filters were actually cigarette filter tips.   When I started university in 1969 I joined a model railway club in Glasgow and soon sold the track cleaner to another member.   I had long forgotten it until last year I spotted among an eBay spares or repair job lot a Wills Track Cleaner.   Job lot duly purchased complete with one unpainted track cleaner, fitted with the optional Triang type couplers, but missing its cleaning filters and with two holes in the floor where it was missing the imitation metal taps above the cylinders which would have held the cleaning filters.   Last week while browsing for something else, I happened on an eBay listing for Wills Track Cleaner accessories, boxed, for £4.99 plus postage.    This arrived this morning, the correct box, complete with original typescript instruction sheet and accessory bag containing cleaning filters, the whitemetal taps and the alternative pin type couplings.   This afternoon the Track Cleaning Wagon has been up and down my layout behind a Wrenn 8F 2-8-0, doing the purpose for which it was originally intended.  

 

I cannot remember the track cleaning wagon routine but was a frequent visitor to Lou Nadin's Model Railway in Garage Street Llandudno between 1962-7. I helped to operate the layout occasionally to give Lou a break and met up with Merf Jones of this parish, with whom I still have a pint or two with when I am visiting Llandudno. I attach some pictures I took which some maybe familiar with. Lou was my inspiration to include a hump yard on my own layout...................something about gravity shunting that fascinates me..............probably the 'bang' at the end!

Apologies if I have posted these before but are relevant to the topic.

[Merfyn Jones]

Good memories there.  When the layout closed down. I bought most of the Mark 1 coaches which were Kitmasters, and I still have them.  Lou was a great showman, loved showing off his skill at hump shunting and his end of the afternoon show off was to attach all the Kitmasters behind his favorite loco , Duchess of Montrose 2 rail conversion which would haul 42 coaches around the oval.  I bought this loco too but now it will not move with the tender coupled to it.

[cessna152towser]

Thanks for the pics.  Great memories and just as I remember it.   We were in Llandudno on holiday in 1961 and 1963 and Penmaenmawr in 1966 so would have visited Lou Nadin's a few times.

[Il Grifone]

On 16/07/2020 at 09:59, Il Grifone said:

omis

 

IIRC the recommended cleaning fluid was carbon tetrachloride. I will definitely not be using that!

 

Dublo recommended methylated spirit, but I'm almost certain someone advocated the nasty stuff, not that meths is 100% safe for children. (They were 'Meccano Boys' of course*....) It's better to poison hoi polloi ('οἱ πολλοί) if you prefer) with methanol than risk they avoid paying their taxes.

 

* Girls were expected to play with things like 'Dinky Builder', so presumably were included!

 

https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Dinky_Builder

Edited July 17, 2020 by Il Grifone
Added link

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Tri-ang Railways actually supplied CT (nasty stuff) with their track cleaning car in the early days. It was in un-labelled  tubes, similar to the early smoke oil, but usually a sort of red colour.

 

It was also sold in a pack of six tubes, in a small box.

 

later, the fluid was dropped, and Meths was recommended...

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Sarahagain
Typo

[Steamport Southport]

On 16/07/2020 at 09:11, Silverfox17 said:

 

I did read dumping in the Mersey was a myth (it would have cost them a lot to hire a boat to do it to start with) but used as hardcore/rubble was genuine. Again true or false I don't know. 

 

Garry 

 

They filled in a few docks with rubble. Mostly from demolished buildings bombed during the war.

 

The Customs House was a prime example. Could have been repaired but sold off as rubble for a pittance.

 

 

 

Jason

[Il Grifone]

Carbon Tetrachloride:  https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=194&tid=35

 

Back in the day it was sold as a dry cleaning agent (in ribbed hexagonal bottles IIRC), along with a whole load of other toxic nasties - lead, asbestos...  (Long known as such - I've seen a warning on asbestos dated 1910 or thereabouts and a warning about global warming from the 19th century.)

[5050]

9 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Carbon Tetrachloride:  https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=194&tid=35

 

Back in the day it was sold as a dry cleaning agent (in ribbed hexagonal bottles IIRC), along with a whole load of other toxic nasties - lead, asbestos...  (Long known as such - I've seen a warning on asbestos dated 1910 or thereabouts and a warning about global warming from the 19th century.)

John Ahern suggests using asbestos for scenery construction in one of his books.

[Il Grifone]

2 hours ago, 5050 said:

John Ahern suggests using asbestos for scenery construction in one of his books.

 

I can't 'unlike' that! 

 

I must check as I seemed to have missed it.  It used to be a common material - iron/pan mats for example.

 

I gather it's relatively OK in sheets; it's the dust that's deadly. Avoiding dust In scenery construction is nigh impossible.

[5050]

15 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

 

I can't 'unlike' that! 

 

I must check as I seemed to have missed it.  It used to be a common material - iron/pan mats for example.

 

I gather it's relatively OK in sheets; it's the dust that's deadly. Avoiding dust In scenery construction is nigh impossible.

It's in an early edition of his 'scenery' book.  I'll try and look it out tomorrow.

[Il Grifone]

It's ten past eleven here I'll go and see if the comet is visible and then have a browse in bed. SWMBO is watching/sleeping through some really cr*p film.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Il Grifone

[kevinlms]

17 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Carbon Tetrachloride:  https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=194&tid=35

 

Back in the day it was sold as a dry cleaning agent (in ribbed hexagonal bottles IIRC), along with a whole load of other toxic nasties - lead, asbestos...  (Long known as such - I've seen a warning on asbestos dated 1910 or thereabouts and a warning about global warming from the 19th century.)

These materials were cheap, so it was OK!

Of course if the true costs of the health care issues were taken into account, then the sums are quite different.

[Il Grifone]

No sign of the comet or of asbestos in Ahern, but then the copy I have to hand is the umpteenth* reprint. An earlier owner has written, "1979" in it.

 

* 3rd edition, 7th Impression 1976

 

 

The comet is apparently visible below the 'Plough' in Ursa Major. There's just haze here (and light pollution); I could just about make out Merak/β Ursae Majoris, but it is rather lower in the sky here compared to the UK. to make up for it, Jupiter and Saturn have been giving a good display. I missed the line up with the Moon due to cloud....

Edited July 20, 2020 by Il Grifone

[5050]

On 18/07/2020 at 18:49, 5050 said:

John Ahern suggests using asbestos for scenery construction in one of his books.

Found it in my copy of his 'Miniature Landscape Modelling' page 15.  However, he says it is a method advised by 'George' Allen,(possibly 'John' the US modeller of Gorre and Daphetid layout fame?) and JH reckons it 'sounds good'.  Six parts of shredded asbestos to one part of sodium silicate mixed with water.  Mr Allen claims it will not crack or shrink!  What it might eventually do to you is not stated..................

 

My copy of the book is 5th impression 1973 so between then and 1976 the potential dangers of asbestos must have become more widely appreciated.

[Il Grifone]

On 22/07/2020 at 18:37, 5050 said:

Found it in my copy of his 'Miniature Landscape Modelling' page 15.  However, he says it is a method advised by 'George' Allen,(possibly 'John' the US modeller of Gorre and Daphetid layout fame?) and JH reckons it 'sounds good'.  Six parts of shredded asbestos to one part of sodium silicate mixed with water.  Mr Allen claims it will not crack or shrink!  What it might eventually do to you is not stated..................

 

My copy of the book is 5th impression 1973 so between then and 1976 the potential dangers of asbestos must have become more widely appreciated.

 

Yes! There it is on page 15! I managed to miss it, but it was late night/early morning....

 

 

I did manage to spot the comet last night. It's very dim and my eyesight doesn't help. to compensate there was a bright meteor. I've found a mini telescope I didn't know we had so I'll try again tonight. It involves going right out of town to get away from the light however.