Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild

[SteveyDee68]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

That highlights how the scale is changing - or in the views of some, 'dumbing down'. Why bother with a kit - starter or otherwise - at £250 to £400-plus, when there are some great R-T-R locos available now at £200 or less? 

A person no longer has to be a skilled kitbuilder to get into O Scale, which some of the 'old guard' resent massively.

 

 

I've added highlights (also see missing quotes below!) but here lies (I think) the crux of the issue ... if I am a beginner and am interested in 'trying out' a new scale which may have more reliance on modelmaker's skills than say OO (with its vast array of highly detailed RTR locos and stock, RTP resin buildings and multitudes of accessories of every description), why would I risk £250 - the price of a decent DCC sound chipped loco - on a kit which I may have little confidence of having the requisite skills to complete to a satisfactory standard?

 

I know nothing about the cost of O gauge other than it costs if going down either the kit built route or the big diesels route! RTR wagons are £45 upwards (yes, I know OO gauge coaches are similarly priced) but buying RTR wagons would set me back approx £400 for the wagons for an Inglenook puzzle.  In comparison, an exquisite Terrier or 08 seems cheap at £200-£250, but it (a) works (b) is beautifully made and (c) is ready to go!  The £250 starter kit has to be built and finished and is not gauranteed to be either (a) or (b) [not with my current skills set anyway!]

 

Where the Guild might have strength is in sourcing a large enough order of eg wheel sets as to be able to either purchase at a cheaper price or alternatively source manufacture at a cheaoer price.  Bulk buying of suitable motors should also result in good quality at lower price points.  I suggested sheets of plasticard provided to cut out flat parts from - take that a step further and have the parts laser-printed (or etched/burnt/whatever) so they simply need cutting out (rather than producing expensive plastic-moulded kit parts) and commission resin-cast (maybe even 3D printed?) details such as buffers, radiator grills etc.  I suggested the 4DS as that is such a small and simple diesel outline - I wouldn't know what to suggest for a steam loco!

 

Surely such a kit could be produced for less than £100 if the aim is to produce an item that covers its cost of manufacture with the smallest of markups (say 5% as per the likes of ALDI or LIDL) - the Guild would not be seeking to make a living from the kit (like a commercial enterprise would) so no need to have a high price - unless the plan is to pay for executive members to attend the next Guildex for free in St Moritz?!*

 

If I want to try out a scale, I am going to buy motive power first, despite the sense in trying out with a wagon first.  It's just my nature - when I think "train", I think loco and stock, not stock and locos!  I would gamble upon constructing the above described kit, maybe even using solder instead of electrically conducive glue to attach wires to motors etc.  If at the end I had a viable loco for approx £100 that I had built myself, I would be more confident of then spending £250 on the next loco kit! Or buying wagon kits to go with my loco.

 

And who would I thank for this introduction to 7mm scale?  Who would have provided the wherewithall to try? Maybe the Guild could have a place in attracting modellers to the scale and also to become members, with such perceived value?

 

Thinking out loud again...

 

Steve S

 

 

EDIT UPDATE

I actually quoted from two other previous posts, but those quotes have disappeared upon posting, They were to the effect that one (discontinued) starter kit was available for £400 (posted by Barry O) another for only £250 (posted by JCM@GWR) [my emphasis added on only]

Edited July 14, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Quotes missing from post!

[RTJ]

RE: GoG.

Yes it can come across as a steam-centred old man's organisation. However, the Gazette is generally excellent and the forum contains a wealth of excellent modellers giving excellent advice.

The problems are:

1. A luck of accountability - especially in the area of finances. Guildex at Telford, excellent showcase though it is, had been losing (a lot of) money for ages -but details are hazy.

2. A management that appears to be poor at communication to its members and somewhat 'aloof' at times. They seem slow to move forward, slow to embrace beneficial changes. Many would appear to be stuck in an 'engineering background' and view modelling 7mm in that light.

3. My main gripe is that part of the forum where one can voice such misgivings - constructive  criticisms of course. The vast number of people here are fine - well-intentioned, experienced individuals. But we all know that it only takes a few to spoil the party...and there are a sizeable number of grumpy old men who would appear to trawl through any posts and find pleasure in trolling. Yes, it can get personal, and it seems ages before the mods step in. Having said that, there are some professional people who are also guilty of inferring  the worst possible case interpretation.  There have been many people I know who have left GoG just for that reason. I, and others, usually implore them to stay but just to read the Modelling section. I myself have given myself a 6 month sabbatical from that area. It's not worth the stress of seeing another rude posting.

 

I think the idea of opening the Modelling section to all is a good idea.

 

I think we ought to change the Guild name to something else.

[scottystitch]

55 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

True, but it's every bit as annoying to be told that there is something wrong with wanting to build rather than buy.

 

(Yes, I know this is an argument that has been made many, many, many times on RMweb).

Absolutely correct , Phil.

 

Equally, however, it is annoying and belittling to be told there is something wrong with buying rather than building.

 

Tolerance should be universal.

 

Best

 

Scott.

[ColinK]

Although I have a small interest in 0 gauge modelling, It’s not my main interest and I have to choose how I spend my money.  I know about the GOG and have friends in it, but it doesn’t really offer much to me personally.

 

I am in a number of societies, including two model railway  clubs, DEMU  (Joined recently) and the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association (been a member for many years).  I’ve found the 7mm NGA membership to be very worthwhile; excellent magazine and a active local group. I would not want to see the GOG get active in 7mm NG as that is already covered successfully by 7Mm NGA, plus it would lose focus of the GOG probably weakening its appeal. Nothing wrong with people joining both.

 

One thing that has not been mentioned much is that the value of any society/guild/club also depends on what you put into it. Although weather your efforts are welcomed or appreciated is also important.  I have written a few items for the 7mm NGA and although my articles are nowhere near as professional or polished as many, they have certainly been welcomed by the magazine editors, have been published and I’ve been encouraged to submit more.  The next issue of the DEMU magazine ‘UPDATE’ includes an article I’ve written about my layout, wonder how it will be recieved. But again I have been encouraged to submit more.  The key point is encouraging members to submit and publish articles.
 

In the current strange circumstances the railway clubs have helped too.  One of the model railway clubs has had weekly quizes and a photo competition to keep members involved.  The Chairman of the other club started ringing members weekly to make sure we were all OK, and now we phone and email each other regularly.  Similarly while our local 7nn NGA group cannot meet at present, we have collective emails showing what individual members are working on and providing advice where needed.  All these activities have been a great help - but again it all comes down to individuals making the effort to put something in.

 

i hope my fairly length post provides some suggestions for helping the GOG and other groups flourish.

[APOLLO]

7 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Another observation she passed on - to get a hot pie (!) you needed to put your name down on a first come/first served basis, and it seemed to her that a there was a clique within the group that whoever arrived first put names down for the others to ensure they got pies, rather than the “fair” system of first come/first served! (How’s about that for a non-member observation!!  LOL!!) 
 

 

Did Gay Joe eat all the pies ? - That would never be allowed at the Wigan exhibition !!!

 

Back in the late 70's I bought some American HO stuff and was pleased with the excellent running over the then mainly Tri-ang Hornby stuff , and planned a typical large HO American layout (didn't build it) - on buying a house with a large garage I looked into O scale - I quickly found out that British outline O was expensive and perhaps not for me. MG Sharp in Sheffield was then offering Atlas locos (£!5) and various freight cars - I bought a selection and I was hooked with American O which I still buy & run today. Over £500 for "iffy running fault prone (gears) British O - no thanks. American O, even brand new today is not a lot more expensive than top end RTR OO these days, £345 for a brand new dual motored sound equipped loco (Cuttyblacks York). 

 

As to the Guild, never been a member, but it sounds like its an old farts club (yes I'm an old fart now so my kids tell me !!!!!!!!). I wish the reorganisation well though - new younger members are required throughout our hobby - all scales.

 

As one American modeler once wrote, O stands for O.K. , HO stands for How Ordinary and N stood for Nothing !!!!!

 

Brit15

[Happy Hippo]

8 minutes ago, RTJ said:

I think we ought to change the Guild name to something else.

I could think of a few choice replacements!

 

It is a good point though.  You only have to look at how some charities decided that name changes were appropriate.

 

Perhaps one of the does stick being the charity Scope, which was formerly known as the Spastic Society.

[steve W]

32 minutes ago, ColinK said:

.... I would not want to see the GOG get active in 7mm NG as that is already covered successfully by 7Mm NGA, plus it would lose focus of the GOG probably weakening its appeal. Nothing wrong with people joining both.

 

 

I know the GOG mentions 7mm narrow gauge, but based on my experience  at Telford with a very well recieved NG layout, it is highly unlikely to generate significant activity in that area.  A couple walked towards the layout during the afternoon, the gentleman's wife was seemingly much taken with our display. He, on the other hand, took one quick glance, grabbed her by the arm and in a loud voice pronounced "Come along dear, it's only narrow gauge". 

Sorry, probably doesn't help the core purpose of this thread though.

[Craigw]

"Where the Guild might have strength is in sourcing a large enough order of eg wheel sets as to be able to either purchase at a cheaper price or alternatively source manufacture at a cheaoer price.  Bulk buying of suitable motors should also result in good quality at lower price points.  I suggested sheets of plasticard provided to cut out flat parts from - take that a step further and have the parts laser-printed (or etched/burnt/whatever) so they simply need cutting out (rather than producing expensive plastic-moulded kit parts) and commission resin-cast (maybe even 3D printed?) details such as buffers, radiator grills etc.  I suggested the 4DS as that is such a small and simple diesel outline - I wouldn't know what to suggest for a steam loco!"

 

Let us just say that the Guild can buy wheelsets at 10 GBP a set if they buy 1000. this is only 10,000 GBP they would tie up in wheel sets plus whatever else would be needed to build up this "cheap" kit you are suggesting.

 

 What could possibly go wrong?

 

Regards,

 

Craig

 

 

[Compound2632]

Lack of financial accountability has been mentioned. 

 

Failure to publish externally-examined annual accounts is very bad practice. It's a basic requirement of the Charity Commission: many line societies, having an educational purpose, are registered charities; a scale society or model railway club is unlikely to meet the criteria for charitable status but nevertheless, any organisation requiring a membership subscription fee has a duty to its members to present accounts. The local model railway club of which I am a member certainly does.

 

I gather the GOG has an elected committee; I presume it therefore holds an Annual General Meeting (at least under normal circumstances); the annual accounts are surely presented at this meeting and questions taken?

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, ColinK said:

I would not want to see the GOG get active in 7mm NG as that is already covered successfully by 7Mm NGA, plus it would lose focus of the GOG probably weakening its appeal. Nothing wrong with people joining both.

 

This is essentially what I was trying to say earlier - maybe better to have two focused societies than one focused and one trying to cover a wider range but possibly duplicating the first. I remember seeing a G0G stand at an exhibition some years ago with some NG on it, but iirc it was finescale with track specially built to correct gauge, as opposed to 09/016.5 based on 00 and N components - not sure if this distinction is important in this context.

[Ravenser]

This is a slightly unusual thread, but as it's reached 5 pages and running, and as I fulfil the criteria for offering my opinion , (I don't belong to GOG) I'll chip in with some thoughts.

 

Admittedly I don't actually model in 7mm - I'm pretty heavily committed to 4mm/OO , with a membership of the 3mm Society , and some stray N gauge bits in the drawer and aspirations towards a OO9 layout with some Bachmann Baldwins. But then the opening post didn't actually say "opinions of modellers working in 7mm who are not members of GOG" . it said 

Quote

the outsiders view of the guild and the guild organized exhibitions

 

And I'm certainly an outsider to all this, though one with limited contact with people involved in the 7mm world. 

 

So - 

 

The GOG was set up as a lifeboat for modellers working in a dying scale, in large part to keep key components available by organising O gauge modellers to band together and commit to a bulk order to convince the manufacturer to keep producing. It evolved as a network and club for Gauge O modellers , and among its initiatives was a collection of slide programmes/talks on people's layouts . This I gather from written accounts / books by Jack Ray , one of its leading figures in its first 30 years 

 

In those days O Gauge was a dinosaur scale, mostly coarse scale, with little trade support, and an operational focus.

 

Things changed from the later 1980s with the rise of finescale Gauge O , using etched brass and other more modern techniques from the 4mm finescale movement . In those days it was a much quieter, smaller and more relaxed backwater compared with the somewhat bitter politics that existed in 4mm finescale in the 1970s and 80s.

 

Finescale O has steadily developed over the last 30 years and is now a pretty extensive ecosystem (as they say of mobile phone platforms..) . However certain cliches are perhaps very relevant here:

 

- It's a cliche that modellers go into Gauge O because they are finding they are starting to struggle  to see the details in 4mm. In other words, 7mm modellers tend to start in their 60s, with extensive experience in other gauges behind them. "That is no country for old men" wrote Yeats , starting a poem but 7mm seems to me precisely " a country for old men", and is therefore particularly vulnerable to aging in the hobby. The GOG Executors & Trustees service has been going for decades - it's striking that it was GOG who set up such a service and made a big thing of it long ago. 

 

- Finescale 7mm is expensive. The prices are very much "sharp-intake-of-breath" territory for me - I really can't contemplate £400-£700 for a locomotive kit, possibly benefitting from access to  machine tools, never mind substantial 4-figure sums for Korean brass. I remember one posters long-time strapline - "British O Gauge. That's how much? You mean yen, right?" . Very much to the point. And that has always been the culture of 7mm finescale back to the days of GP Keen, WS Norris and Stanley Beeson: a game for wealthy gentlemen. Bassett Lowke was an upmarket brand

 

- And 7mm needs space. And nothing is so eye-wateringly expensive in modern Britain as space. A 7mm loco might cost over £1000- but to find the substantial domestic space to do something with it might mean forking out £100,000+. Frankly it's a struggle for those under 40 to find space to do much in 4mm, especially in modern image. 7mm is therefore naturally restricted to those who were able to get well up the housing ladder before house prices became prohibitive 30 years ago. I note a editorial comment in this month's RM that we don't see that many 7mm standard gauge garden railways these days. ( They don't fit the finescale ethos) . Hence I get the impression a lot of 7mm finescale modelling takes the form of club layouts - meaning exhibition layouts. If the coronavirus has an ongoing effect on the exhibition circuit, that side of the hobby is going to face significant challenges.

 

- My impression from some comments is that finescale 7mm culture has picked up elements of 20th century 4mm finescale culture. Specifically that modelling is/should be a form of model engineering, that it is separate and distinct from RTR /toy trains, and should hold aloof from it. Not surprising if older 4mm finescale modellers have moved into 7mm - and until recently RTR simply hasn't  existed in 7mm . RTR was clearly coarse-scale toy trains Triang Big-Big, Lima , maybe prewar Hornby tinplate.

 

I remember a CMRA delegates meeting a decade or more ago, and an elderly chap saying with passion  "and we don't want the wrong sort of traders at shows. You know the sort I mean - the ones with blue and red boxes on their stands." Meaning Hornby and Bachmann RTR... I get the impression that mentality has very much existed in parts of 7mm finescale - which until recently has been a "pure" zone of making things, preferably from metal  - probably brought in by people who have moved on from 4mm finescale as their eyes failed.

 

The old coarse-scale O gauge modelling with an operational focus , represented by layouts like Sherwood and Crewchester is nearly extinct.

 

Gauge O fmodelling is now in a very healthy state as far as trade support is concerned. There is no longer a need for a lifeboat - either to drum up the necessary components to carry on, or to provide a support network for those in an obscure and difficult niche

 

It is clearly facing a demographic challenge - but recruiting new modellers through the sudden availability of mid-price RTR O gauge after many decades without significant RTR support is a challenge to elements of 7mm finescale  culture.

 

But if coronavirus becomes a protracted challenge then societies may have to step into a large gap left by a dormant exhibition/club scene

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ravenser

[Ravenser]

Some comments on breadth of coverage.

 

DOGA - which has been mentioned , and of which I'm a member - is a gauge-specific society. It arose in large part to tackle the long-standing lack of wheel and track standards for OO (ie 16.5mm gauge) , and also to address the lack of any voice specifically for OO modellers, in a situation where EM and P4 modellers had large well-organised societies representing them. 

 

Not surprisingly , narrow-gauge is outside DOGA's remit.. OO9 and OOn3 are a very different ballgame

 

GOG's remit is complicated by what looks to this outsider like a breakdown in the traditional wheel and track standards for finescale Gauge O , which different factions arguing for gauges of 31.2mm, 31.5mm , 32.0mm and 33.0mm. The strict purists have "done a P4" and set up S7S in emulation - I think Bob Essery, a key figure in the P4 schism, was involved with S7

 

Since 7mm NG tends to be O-16.5 ,often using Hornby mechanisms and normally Peco track, it really doesn't sit very well with 7mm finescale. And it has its own , effective, society.

 

GOG & 7mm may be very steamy - but that is not just about the demographic. 7mm modern image seems to be a very niche activity : trade support has been very limited , the space demands and costs are very severe on a younger less well-resourced demographic, and to be honest doing it in 4mm or N just seems so much easier and simpler. MIGO seems to have folded quietly as a small society : I'd not heard of MIOG before this thread, and it seems more of an online community/ network than a society

 

And there's already been one GOG schism in the form of ALSRM. Not sure what happened to that.

[009 micro modeller]

8 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

DOGA - which has been mentioned , and of which I'm a member - is a gauge-specific society. It arose in large part to tackle the long-standing lack of wheel and track standards for OO (ie 16.5mm gauge) , and also to address the lack of any voice specifically for OO modellers, in a situation where EM and P4 modellers had large well-organised societies representing them. 

 

Not surprisingly , narrow-gauge is outside DOGA's remit.. OO9 and OOn3 are a very different ballgame

 

But is there a particular need for an 00-specific society, given that 00 is very popular and well-supported? I always understood DOGA to be for finer standards than RTR without going to EM and P4.

 

My point about 4mm NG and DOGA was just sort of saying ‘it makes sense that DOGA don’t cover NG, and it would equally make sense if G0G was also focused on standard gauge.’

[F-UnitMad]

9 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

It's worth asking: is the GOG actually hampering O-gauge modelling by frightening off potential entrants who are made to feel inferior because they would prefer RTR to scratch or kit building?

 

 

Might not be hampering actual modelling, because that can be done without the Guild, but hampering the influx of new members to the Guild? Quite possibly...  

[Ravenser]

19 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

But is there a particular need for an 00-specific society, given that 00 is very popular and well-supported? I always understood DOGA to be for finer standards than RTR without going to EM and P4.

 

My point about 4mm NG and DOGA was just sort of saying ‘it makes sense that DOGA don’t cover NG, and it would equally make sense if G0G was also focused on standard gauge.’

DOGA is a broad church and aims to support all those working in OO. In practice it tends towards the craft modeller - you could say that it aims at those who aren't content just to use RTR exclusively

 

RTR has improved dramatically over the last 25 years, and modern RTR wheels are fully compatible with the traditional "scale OO" track using a 1.25mm flangeway ("BRMSB OO") . Which , to be frank, is most OO layouts using handbuilt track. So if there's a widely-used "finescale OO" track standard that fits modern RTR wheels spot on - why not go with it, and shout the fact from the house-tops?

 

(The fact I need to explain that points to there being a need for a society to explain it, and support people doing it)

 

I think there is certainly a benefit for having a society to support the craft OO modeller . You'd be surprised by how many people are frightened by the idea of building a Parkside wagon kit.

 

There will certainly be a need for a society to support O gauge modellers who are - not in S7 , and - making stuff. 7mm is not going to be a "shake the box" option in the way OO and N can sometimes be

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ravenser

[Ohmisterporter]

I was a G0G member for several years but gave up about twenty five years ago when my modelling interests changed. At the time all correspondence was by paper mail. Then we were informed that the Guild was going to have an on-line forum; but wait! The introduction of such a forum was still being discussed as "The committee will have no control over its content". That was the whole point wasn't it? 

Another thing that I found odd was that nobody could stand for election as an officer of the guild until they had ten years membership in. No matter how talented or committed they may have been. Now, that rule cannot possibly have been in the list of guild rules as originally drawn up. I saw it as an attempt by the old guard to maintain their grip on the club that they had founded.

As for the Gazette having a preponderance of steam based articles; the editor can only publish articles that are submitted to him. If diesel/electric era modellers want to see more articles to their interest they should perhaps write something for publication.

Some of the above may have been changed since I left, if they have I welcome correction.

[StuartMc]

9 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

It's worth asking: is the GOG actually hampering O-gauge modelling by frightening off potential entrants who are made to feel inferior because they would prefer RTR to scratch or kit building?

 

I have two O Gauge wagons - one from a kit and one RTR (which I weathered) - I can't honestly say that the RTR one is the inferior one

 

I like making kits but it is the new wave of RTR that make this a great time to model O Gauge if you just want to have great looking models that are relatively affordable. I hope build a small shunting plank and it's great not to have to wait months or years to build up enough stock to run on it.

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

8 minutes ago, Ohmisterporter said:

As for the Gazette having a preponderance of steam based articles; the editor can only publish articles that are submitted to him. If diesel/electric era modellers want to see more articles to their interest they should perhaps write something for publication.

There's a Catch-22; if D&E modellers don't join the Guild, they aren't going to submit articles. If they don't see D&E articles,they aren't going to join the Guild.... 

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Absolutely, and it's a decent scale to build things in. For some, spending 1,000 hours building a loco kit is the reward in itself. All I was saying was that a person no longer has to build things to make a start in 7mm.

 

1000 hours. You can build a decent etched brass kit in about 50 to 100.

 

Think of them as being the same as 4mm kits, just bigger. The size actually makes them easier to build.

 

Cost? Certainly not thousands of pounds as many seem to think. You can get decent kits for quite reasonable prices from the likes of Slaters, Connoisseur, Springside, DJH, etc.

 

This is only four times the cost of three or four similar RTR 00 gauge models. Not bad considering by volume it's eight times the size. Expensive? I don't think so. DMUs and EMUs are getting close.

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?code=7L015

 

 

As for Ruston & Hornsby 48DS kits. Hasn't anyone considered that Judith Edge already do one....

 

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/catalogue/judithedge

 

 

 

 

Jason

Edited July 14, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[fail safe]

52 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

GOG & 7mm may be very steamy - but that is not just about the demographic. 7mm modern image seems to be a very niche activity : trade support has been very limited , the space demands and costs are very severe on a younger less well-resourced demographic, and to be honest doing it in 4mm or N just seems so much easier and simpler. MIGO seems to have folded quietly as a small society : I'd not heard of MIOG before this thread, and it seems more of an online community/ network than a society

MIOG is indeed more of a social networking group. Post steam modelling is no longer really a niche in 7mm scale its just that the Guild is very steamy as you rightly say!  The Guild gives a bad impression of what modellers are really up to in 0 gauge.  Trade support is not really that limited as apart from rolling stock, much of what we model in the rest of the railway we all have in common. But yes rolling stock is an area that needs more. Heljan have Mk 2 coaches announced, and Dapol MK 1s are about to be released. Heljan seem to be going through all the BR diesel fleet, and with Dapol coming in with the 08 and soon the 66 things will be getting good. I'm not a Guild member and don't see the need.

[RedgateModels]

Personally?

 

There's not a lot the GoG could do to persuade me to join as I have never seen any need to do so. My GWR themed BLT got built, published and exhibited perfectly well without GoG assistance. 

Having said that, I'm not a member of any club or society apart from MERG

 

RMweb has provided all the assistance I could have ever needed

[RedgateModels]

19 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

When I informed my then new partner that I was going to the Gauge O Guild show, she gave me a funny look and asked: "Who is Gay Joe?"

 

Not helped by the named class 31 being painted pink ......

[RedgateModels]

15 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

MIOG is intriguing. It doesn't seem to "exist" in the way a traditional society does -- membership fees, constitution, etc.

 

And yet it does achieve a lot of things that traditional societies do -- such as giving people news about their particular niche, and, of course, running exhibitions.

 

 

 

 

The crux of the matter possibly. There are groups of people who want to help, promote the hobby/scale/etc and those who want to sit on committees. 

[Ohmisterporter]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

There's a Catch-22; if D&E modellers don't join the Guild, they aren't going to submit articles. If they don't see D&E articles,they aren't going to join the Guild.... 

 

As a matter of interest, I assume that articles sent for publication in the Gazette attract no writers' fee. Would the same article published in one of the monthly modelling magazines be paid for? If so perhaps that is why writers prefer to try their luck with the mainstream mags. 

 

Edit spelling.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ohmisterporter

[Stubby47]

3 minutes ago, Ohmisterporter said:

 

As a matter of interest, I assume that article sent for publication in the Gazette attract no writers' fee. Would the same article published in one of the monthly modelling magazines e paid for? If so perhaps that is why writers prefer to try their luck with the mainstream mags. 

 

Even when you are invited to submit content (photos and write up) for one of the main 4 mags, you may not get paid - a lesson I've just learnt...

Edited July 14, 2020 by Stubby47