Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild

[jonny777]

18 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

 

Even when you are invited to submit content (photos and write up) for one of the main 4 mags, you may not get paid - a lesson I've just learnt...

 

I have had a few photos published, and usually I get a free copy of the publication once it has been issued. 

 

I am quite happy with that. 

[The Johnster]

18 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Sums it up pretty well! The shows do tend to be mostly trade and a few layouts, static displays and demonstrators.

 

At the shows I have been to, mostly Doncaster and Telford, the specialist trade is the sort of variety that modellers dream of finding. All sorts of cottage manufacturers turn up and you see all sorts of things that you didn't know existed or that you needed. I know the E & T service has had some stick earlier but I have often come away with a bargain from either there or the second hand "bring and buy" stall.

 

More than anything, they are a social event to meet up with people you may only see at these very shows.

 

Last Telford show I stayed overnight (as did a couple of very good friends) and did two full days (plus a most enjoyable night out in Telford) and it was up there with the most enjoyable exhibition I have ever been to. Many, many good people to talk to, nick ideas from and catch up with. As the show closed on Sunday, I realised that I hadn't spent more than a short while watching layouts. It was much more about chatting!

 

I was really quite disappointed to read that the financial side of the show wasn't working and that things may have to change.

All shows were like this for all gauges back in the day, by which I mean pre-internet, with all sorts of left field traders turning up with what was usually their entire stock; you found all sorts of stuff you didn't know you wanted and came away with a bag full of small goodies and an empty wallet after spending hours sorting through hundreds of items in packets hanging on hooks.  More than a few of them had a sort of wild-eyed and disconnected eyebrows-missing look about them, and one imagined them as sort of latter day alchemists, poring over lost wax castings in dark cellars lit by black candles inside pentagrams at the dead of night to the accompaniment of sinister chanting in the background.  This entire world was wiped out overnight by the internet, but exists online in spirit to some extent, as a couple of hours wasted on Shapeways' site will show.  Most if it is either rubbish or inexplicable, but there are some gems to be found if you've got the patience...

[fail safe]

Most magazines pay little or nothing. Maybe just a very small 'appearance fee' or free copy. Most people are happy with that as it furthers the hobby. When I was looking into joining, a Guild member told me their magazine is for members only, which I imagine means that it is mostly steamy stuff. Not for me really.

[The Johnster]

i wouldn't expect payment for published material of mine in the journal of any club, society, or guild I was a member of, but would if I were not a member.  In the event, I'm not a member of anything and have never had anything remotely good enough to be published, so it's academic!

[The Johnster]

12 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

 

 

 

* Maybe it is just me, but soldering remains “rocket science” for the moment!!

I'm slowly improving, and now have 30% chance of making a successful joint first time, but I promise you it's not 'just you'!  Soldering is to my mind (and this is going I know to be controversial) a very bad way of making electrical joints and an equally bad way of assembling kits.  I 'get' that etched brass is a convenient way to produce highly detailed kit parts, but I find it hard to get brass to 'take' solder and you only get one go at a neat joint between parts.  Many of these kits would be better assembled by small nuts and bolts where the heads can be hidden, and even where they can't, with the bolt heads cut off and filed flat as a finishing off job.  Electrical connections where they are not screw terminals should be sprung clip connected; in both cases you can solder afterwards for a belt & braces job.

 

I have in the past successfully built a white metal loco kit with a nickel silver foldup chassis, some of which was soldered, but I kept the iron well away from the whitemetal parts, araldited them on instead.  Loco ran for 30 years without anything falling off and eventually wore through the chassis; some whitemetal parts have been used to upgrade lower standard RTR (Hornby 2721).

Edited July 14, 2020 by The Johnster

[alastairq]

17 minutes ago, fail safe said:

When I was looking into joining, a Guild member told me their magazine is for members only,

 

That is   commonplace amongst most societies, clubs, organisations, etc. Why should a member have to pay a membership  fee [which covers things like magazines?]....when any old turn-up can do a WH Smiths library trick with the latest [helpful, to some, perhaps?] club or society magazine?

 

What i do note is that some societies/clubs/associations offer 'samples' of past publications, by way of a sweetener...

 

The only model railway-oriented society I belong to is the S Scale MRS.....Not particularly elitist in any way....and they are happy with narrow gauge as well...

 

Perhaps the GOG should consider whether they wish to service the Gauge O world [with spares, advice, etc...] or whether they wish to be simply a social club for like-minded individuals

[I joined.....once....found one or two publications to be of interest...but aside from that, gained nowt else...so did not renew.]

[t-b-g]

29 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

All shows were like this for all gauges back in the day, by which I mean pre-internet, with all sorts of left field traders turning up with what was usually their entire stock; you found all sorts of stuff you didn't know you wanted and came away with a bag full of small goodies and an empty wallet after spending hours sorting through hundreds of items in packets hanging on hooks.  More than a few of them had a sort of wild-eyed and disconnected eyebrows-missing look about them, and one imagined them as sort of latter day alchemists, poring over lost wax castings in dark cellars lit by black candles inside pentagrams at the dead of night to the accompaniment of sinister chanting in the background.  This entire world was wiped out overnight by the internet, but exists online in spirit to some extent, as a couple of hours wasted on Shapeways' site will show.  Most if it is either rubbish or inexplicable, but there are some gems to be found if you've got the patience...

 

Maybe wiped out by the internet in most of the world but don't forget, the O gauge community lives in a completely different era to everybody else and the GOG shows still have those very same sorts of people peddling their wares. Perhaps that is why I enjoy them so much.

[The Johnster]

1 minute ago, t-b-g said:

 

Maybe wiped out by the internet in most of the world but don't forget, the O gauge community lives in a completely different era to everybody else and the GOG shows still have those very same sorts of people peddling their wares. Perhaps that is why I enjoy them so much.

Quite.  If I thought any 4mm stuff was available it'd almost be worth my attending such a show; I miss the hours wasted going through endless packets and the delight of finding, say, a brass sliding roof ventilator for a 5101, or little lost wax nipples for pannier domes.  There's nothing wrong with a little lost wax nipple, i tells ya!

[fail safe]

9 minutes ago, alastairq said:

That is   commonplace amongst most societies

I know, I meant member only 7mm scale features. Nothing about the outside world in it,  Just member models. Can understand it in principle but in the Guilds case it gives a bit of an insular impression of 0 gauge to the ageing membership and that may be one of the problems.

[Ravenser]

45 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

All shows were like this for all gauges back in the day, by which I mean pre-internet, with all sorts of left field traders turning up with what was usually their entire stock; you found all sorts of stuff you didn't know you wanted and came away with a bag full of small goodies and an empty wallet after spending hours sorting through hundreds of items in packets hanging on hooks.  More than a few of them had a sort of wild-eyed and disconnected eyebrows-missing look about them, and one imagined them as sort of latter day alchemists, poring over lost wax castings in dark cellars lit by black candles inside pentagrams at the dead of night to the accompaniment of sinister chanting in the background.  This entire world was wiped out overnight by the internet, but exists online in spirit to some extent, as a couple of hours wasted on Shapeways' site will show.  Most if it is either rubbish or inexplicable, but there are some gems to be found if you've got the patience...

 

This casts a sudden blinding light (accompanied by peal of thunder and sound of torrential rain) on  the online persona of the late Adrian Swain 

 

"Eye of bat and toe of frog

Splasher of Jidenco kit

Ashes of an old fag end

Smoked by Colin Massingham

 

Innards of a Dublo tank

Sacrificed to Protofour;

Merco lithos light the fire

'Neath a Triang Nellie's flank

 

Pull the wheels and bush the gear

Chuck the castings in a pot

'Neith the moon at witching hour

Dip the etches in a vat

 

I can just imagine Adrian Swain complaining that the black candles need to be half the thickness and the blood lining the yellow chalk of the pentangle needs to be on the inside or the spell won't work

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ravenser

[SteveyDee68]

49 minutes ago, RTJ said:

Connoisseur models do a 'starter' diesel kit. The instructions are the best in the market (downloadable for free). A soldering iron IS needed though - and a few simple tools.

 

see: http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Loco Kit Pages/Drewry 0 4 0 Diesel Shunter.html

 

Lots of other kits to choose from!

 

No connection etc.

 

R

 

 

 

Oh my! Thank you for pointing me towards this starter kit. It is a thing of beauty. And relatively cheap, too.  I've downloaded the instructions, and those are excellent and really make me feel it is achievable...

 

Hang on!

 

Motor, wheels, axles, pickups all have to be sourced separately (I know that is common because of different 'standards' and it allows modellers to make their own choice but...) which pushes the price up. Even more importantly, as a beginner/newcomer, I don't want to have to make all those decisions and start sourcing things to complete my model! When buying a Dapol Terrier, for example, you hand your cash over and things like B2B, profile of wheels, gear ratios, suitable motors, pick up systems are all things you don't have to think about! 

 

This is where the Guild could step in. Let's assume, for the moment, that PECO track is the de facto standard for technical matters. Beginner's/new converts are going to buy PECO track, so they want their locos and stock to run on it. For me, this is where the Guild could 'plug the gap' by producing a small, cheap(ish), easy to construct (but it does have an element of construction involved) loco kit and maybe a standard 5 plank open wagon and a closed ventilated van, all as complete in one box kits. If the new GOG member then decides to go down the SuperSeriousScaleStandards or TraditionalTinplate or VariationUponGaugeO route, it is up to that person to replace the 'standard' wheels etc with their own choice.

 

Again, I would suggest that bulk buying power by the GOG could greatly reduce the cost of the 'bought in' parts for the kit/s they produce, whilst at the same time providing one of the existing 'cottage industry' suppliers with a sizeable and economically attractive order.

 

BUT now I've thought about all that, I have taken another look at the wonderful instructions showing how easily I might solder this attractive starter kit together into a beautiful model... it all looks so simple in the photos....

 

And realised that I am more likely to reduce the components to a smouldering pile of slag metal! Suddenly, 

the "starters kit" feels beyond my capabilities. I can screw things together. I can cut and glue plastic bits together. I can perhaps do a simple bit of soldering. That is the newbie I would aim to attract in order to get 'young blood' into the group!  Once hooked on the bulk of the models and the detail possible, then they might invest time and effort into expanding their skills!

 

I know I would!

 

Please develop:

A plasticard based model of the 48DS, complete with screw together (ie foolproof) chassis, suitable wheels, gears and motor, with cast resin (or 3D printed) detailing parts, all requiring the most basic of soldering/cutting/glueing skills, that builds up into a useable loco, all for around £100 and coming in a box to keep the finished model in (apparently a gripe I read about elsewhere on the forum!) and I will happily stump up a registration fee to the GOG to get my hands on it!

 

I'll stop - I'm sure others will have opinions on the above including as to how feasible it might be!

 

Steve S

 

[The Johnster]

2 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

This casts a sudden blinding light (accompanied by peal of thunder and sound of torrential rain) on  the online persona of the late Adrian Swain 

 

"Eye of bat and toe of frog

Splasher of Jidenco kit

Ashes of an old fag end

Smoked by Colin Massingham

 

Innards of a Dublo tank

Sacrificed to Protofour;

Merco lithos light the fire

'Neath a Triang Nellie's flank

 

Pull the wheels and bush the gear

Chuck the castings in a pot

'Neith the moon at witching hour

Dip the etchings in a vat

 

I can just imagine Adrian Swain complaining that the black candles need to be half the thickness and the blood lining the yellow chalk of the pentangle needs to be on the inside or the spell won't work

By the pricking of my thumbs

with a fresh Xacto blade...

given up for time of lent

something wicked, that way went!

 

'It lives, it lives'!!!

 

Yes, that's the sort of thing I meant, a whiff of sulphur.  Fetch our guests a glass of wine, Igor,  I myself do not drink... wine.  Mwah ha ha ha ha...

 

Glad this discussion is taking place by daylight...

[RTJ]

Steve,

 

"...

Hang on!

 

Motor, wheels, axles, pickups all have to be sourced separately ..."

 

I think you'll find that 'Big Jim' (of Connnoisseur) will sell you motor+simple gearbox(and gears). Wheels from Slaters come with axles; you don't need plunger pickups.

 

Bad News:

 

Jim is so busy with present orders he's not taking any more new orders until September!

 

I think with the advent of 3D printing many kits in the future will be nut&bolt and glue fixing.

 

Go for it Steve...!

 

R

[Fenman]

2 hours ago, fail safe said:

... But yes rolling stock is an area that needs more. Heljan have Mk 2 coaches announced, and Dapol MK 1s are about to be released. Heljan seem to be going through all the BR diesel fleet, and with Dapol coming in with the 08 and soon the 66 things will be getting good. I'm not a Guild member and don't see the need.

Don’t forget Ellis Clark’s really lovely Darstaed Mk1 Suburbans. They already have mainline Mk1s, and Thompsons are coming soon.

 

Paul

[fail safe]

13 minutes ago, Fenman said:

Don’t forget Ellis Clark’s really lovely Darstaed Mk1 Suburbans. They already have mainline Mk1s, and Thompsons are coming soon.

 

Paul

Yes and Ellis is doing Mk1 sleepers too. Can't wait for these.

[alastairq]

A quite anti-GOG product, from the 1970's was once available from, I think, a spot called Cherry's? It used the Lima O gauge motor bogie drive unit, and IIRC, was a collection of stick-on templates to cut plasticard bits from...making up a Y6{?} tram loco, or even, an 0-4-0 steamer. Cost-wise, better than Triang, as I recall??

I got one..didn't finish it, sadly, but it ran well enough. I still have the Lima power unit....the bodyshell now altered to a Kof...but a motor upgrade is cheap enough.

 

Fred-drift..

 

Perhaps the GoG, as champions [champeeens?] of O gauge [why not O scale?]...could take a leaf out of the 2mm Scale Association book of policies? [In terms of attracting outlanders?]    

Edited July 14, 2020 by alastairq

[SteveyDee68]

41 minutes ago, RTJ said:

Steve,

 

"...

Hang on!

 

Motor, wheels, axles, pickups all have to be sourced separately ..."

 

I think you'll find that 'Big Jim' (of Connnoisseur) will sell you motor+simple gearbox(and gears). Wheels from Slaters come with axles; you don't need plunger pickups.

 

Bad News:

 

Jim is so busy with present orders he's not taking any more new orders until September!

 

I think with the advent of 3D printing many kits in the future will be nut&bolt and glue fixing.

 

Go for it Steve...!

 

R

 

Whilst I was busy tapping away at my previous post, the link appeared to the Judith Edge kits and lo! There was the 48DS at only £55 - but I suspect wheels and motor are not included as the site says that they are included in the 4mm kit! I am definitely tempted right now to purchase it except that it is in brass ... which means all that bending, forming, soldering malarkey, which as stated before is ten steps from where I am! 

 

Steve S

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

I can just imagine Adrian Swain complaining that the black candles need to be half the thickness and the blood lining the yellow chalk of the pentangle needs to be on the inside or the spell won't work

And invariably he would have been correct!

[Arun Sharma]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

By the pricking of my thumbs

with a fresh Xacto blade...

given up for time of lent

something wicked, that way went!

 

'It lives, it lives'!!!

 

Yes, that's the sort of thing I meant, a whiff of sulphur.  Fetch our guests a glass of wine, Igor,  I myself do not drink... wine.  Mwah ha ha ha ha...

 

Glad this discussion is taking place by daylight...

I would change the last line to:

"Something wicked, disappearing into the carpet, that way went!"

[RTJ]

52 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Whilst I was busy tapping away at my previous post, the link appeared to the Judith Edge kits and lo! There was the 48DS at only £55 - but I suspect wheels and motor are not included as the site says that they are included in the 4mm kit! I am definitely tempted right now to purchase it except that it is in brass ... which means all that bending, forming, soldering malarkey, which as stated before is ten steps from where I am! 

 

52 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Steve S

 Annealing brass is quite easy. (Got a gas cooker, or, even better a cook's butane torch-?). Cleanliness, a good flux, a good 60W soldering iron + LEADED solder and you're away!

 

I have a feeling Steve that you're really raring to go...you're just on the brink aren't you...and you know, just know, you've got to take the plunge!

 

In the meantime a Dapol 08 'Gronk' plus a few yards of 7mm Peco rail and you will  be hooked...honest.

 

R

[Jeremy Cumberland]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

[why not O scale?]...

Because 0, like 00, is a scale-gauge combination. Or at least it was once, in dim and distant past. It now seems to be three scale-gauge combinations, with S7 adding a fourth. From my own enquiries into 7 mm modelling, one thing that I had settled for myself was to use 0-MF, with a track gauge of 31.5 mm. Perhaps I would need to join the 0MFA.

[ColinK]

I noticed those two kits too and could be tempted/distracted from my current projects.  I would much prefer if everything was in the box and I’m undecided on couplings.  I can solder and have never made a brass kit yet. But annealing brass certainly puts me off.

 

Getting back to the original topic, perhaps the GOG could work with suppliers and offer a package, say a simple loco kit (choice of steam or diesel) containing everything, a wagon kit and two years membership of the guild. If they have some kind of internet forum, that could be used as a way of helping people build them. 
 

Another suggestion would be to produce a booklet ‘getting started in 0 gauge’. The 7mm NGA have done this - the first edition included one of my layouts.

[Steamport Southport]

I've never found any need to anneal brass in any of these kits.

 

They are modern kits designed for ease of building. All curves are usually ready done or are basic rolling using a mouse mat and a bar. All bends are with half etched lines and just need a straight edge.

 

I built a Connoisseur Jinty and it was probably the easiest kit I've ever made. Previous to that I had only built a handful of 4mm kits from the likes of K's and Wills. 

 

The only experience of O Gauge I had previously was a few Slaters and Parkside wagons. Apart from a diesel shunter which I always thought was Lima but may have been another continental manufacturer.

 

The other point a few people have mentioned is wheels, couplings, etc. Simple. Just use Slaters.

 

 

Jason

Edited July 14, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[polybear]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

 

What i do note is that some societies/clubs/associations offer 'samples' of past publications, by way of a sweetener...

 

 

 

The GoG often give away copies of back issues whenever they have a PR/Demo stand at "regular" model railway exhibitions

 

5 hours ago, Lantavian said:

 

The is the Guild's page at Companies House.

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02640556/filing-history

 

I don't think the Guild actually has to produce audited accounts if it doesn't want to, as it takes advantage of the small-company exemptions.

 

The annual accounts seem to be filed to Companies House every July, so the latest report should be published anyday now.

 

 

 

 

Not guaranteed though - the accounts for the period to Feb 2018 didn't appear until November 2018.

 

7 hours ago, RTJ said:

RE: GoG.

The problems are:

1. A luck of accountability - especially in the area of finances. Guildex at Telford, excellent showcase though it is, had been losing (a lot of) money for ages -but details are hazy.

 

 

I'm no Accountant, but......looking at the accounts for the period ending 28 Feb 2019 there is (under the Cost of Sales section) a line entry stating "Other Costs", with a figure of £256,565; it's by far the biggest cost and (from my interpretation) is a significant contributor towards the Guild having a 15K closing deficit for the year.

However, there is absolutely no explanation regarding these "other costs" of over a quarter of a million.

[RTJ]

25 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

The GoG often give away copies of back issues whenever they have a PR/Demo stand at "regular" model railway exhibitions

 

 

Not guaranteed though - the accounts for the period to Feb 2018 didn't appear until November 2018.

 

 

I'm no Accountant, but......looking at the accounts for the period ending 28 Feb 2019 there is (under the Cost of Sales section) a line entry stating "Other Costs", with a figure of £256,565; it's by far the biggest cost and (from my interpretation) is a significant contributor towards the Guild having a 15K closing deficit for the year.

However, there is absolutely no explanation regarding these "other costs" of over a quarter of a million.

Exactly Poly!

 

Costs may include travel and business expenses- hotel bills + meals etc. No breakdown, however.

 

As a slight aside, if you are a member of GoG, the 'discussions' of the reform group and up-and-coming elections are now getting even more acrid and personal. NOT a good advert!

 

R