fail safe Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Whilst everyone here is worried about subscription dates, thats the last thing the Guild and members is worried about right now. A friend tells me the election of officers in going into meltdown on their forum with all kinds of tricks and rubbish from the traditionalists trying to stop the reformers. I won't be joining anytime soon, it sounds manic. Probably be best if the two elements settled this and went their own way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2020 3 hours ago, 2ManySpams said: Hardly rocket science to say that if you are a new member joining at Telford/Stafford you only pay X/12ths of a full year membership. Really don't see why this is so difficult, after all it's only the first year. Working on that basis you would have members who have paid significantly less than others to be in the same society, and receiving the benefits that being a member entitles you to. If on the other hand you are suggesting that you are only entitled to the part year on one occasion, that would mean that should you roll up at a G0G show and want to take this up, you will have to wait while they search a 5000+ name database to see if you have done this before (Trust me there are plenty who try to con societies and blag membership rates on publications etc while not members) This then brings up another issue which is access to the membership database and who gets it. Just how many people who man the door should have access or do you wait while they find someone who does. In answer to the bold. It isn't difficult, you just want something to suit you that they're not offering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) Have just caught up on the thread which I made comments upon much, much earlier... One thing that has struck me, though, is the rule that someone has to be a member of the GoG for ten years before becoming eligible for nomination for election to the governing body! A decade?! Wow! Slightly OT but relevant - a few years ago, an amdram society I had previously worked for as Musical Director decided to employ a new creative team, after those people spent months bad-mouthing previous creatives and buttering up/flattering the relevant movers and shakers on the society's committee. The new team pulled in lots of new members into the society for that production, and then spent the entire production run bad-mouthing the committee to them, for not allowing free reign with ideas, costs etc, complaining that the society had surplus money that was not being spent due to the incumbent committee. The following year, this same creative team had persuaded various new members to stand as officials, and given that so many new members had joined only due to connections/loyalties to that creative team, the old committee were swept away in a swift coup d'tat ... the next two productions were lavish, no-expense-spared affairs with the creative team paid handsomely (almost professional rates) for their work by their 'stooges' in place on the committee, and a ball was had by all concerned. The third production was a different matter, as the creative team moved elsewhere (having used up all the funds), took most of the committee and new members with them, and left their chief "stooge" (a previous committee member, flattered by them and promoted up to Chairman) picking up the pieces. The society folded, with huge debts. In that instance, an influx of new, voting members was able to replace the existing, long-standing committee members in one fell swoop, simply through sheer numbers with no knowledge of, connection or loyalty to the existing committee. I am sure the GoG could not possibly befall that same fate, as it would need a lot of new members for that to happen, but the length of membership prior to elegibility to stand is - in my opinion - excessive. Another amdram society has a much more reasonable three year rule - enough time for someone to show commitment to the society, become known to the society and also themselves to get to know the society that they have joined. That seems, to me, a reasonable compromise to allow "fresh blood" into governance and protect the organisation from possible 'asset-strippers'! As to transparency of accounts, I have never known a non-profit organisation I have been involved with - whether amdram or brass band/orchestra - being less than fully transparent with accounts for their membership, especially avoiding as much as possible labelling anything as being for "misc expenses"; I also remember a brass band AGM when a heated question was raised over 'high' misc expenses in the accounts due to a large increase over the previous year ... turned out to be that all of the various internally awarded silverware trophies had been professionally cleaned/replated/restored for the band's golden jubilee, and the treasurer really didn't want to create a new category for a once in a five-decade expense! (Amazingly, after that was explained to him the same member then remarked that he thought the trophies had looked much shinier that year at the annual band dinner dance - but had just thought someone had given them a proper polish for once!). I can therefore understand GoG members feeling deeply uneasy about a lack of such transparency - and nothing shouts "dodgy" more than being told "nothing to see here"! Anyway, the dog is due his eye drops again... G'night, folks! Steve S Edited August 2, 2020 by SteveyDee68 Clarity (I hope!) and corrected Italianised verbs! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 4 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: One thing that has struck me, though, is the rule that someone has to be a member of the GoG for ten years before becoming eligible for nomination for election to the governing body! A decade?! Wow! As a Guild member (at the moment), I was not aware of that and so I have looked at both the Guild Rules and the Articles of Association for the Limited Company - unless I have missed something, that rule does not exist - do you have any evidence to confirm your statement ?? Mike 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said: As a Guild member (at the moment), I was not aware of that and so I have looked at both the Guild Rules and the Articles of Association for the Limited Company - unless I have missed something, that rule does not exist - do you have any evidence to confirm your statement ?? Mike Possibly this is another one of those bits of information that started as a rumour and is now the gospel truth because no one has checked the facts. Apparently at the next Guildex we all have to turn up wearing frock coats and stovepipe hats; those having a valet will be allowed to enter 30 minutes before the scheduled opening time. If you turn up in a Landau, your coachman will be entitled to a free lunch at the back door. Edited August 2, 2020 by Happy Hippo 2 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said: As a Guild member (at the moment), I was not aware of that and so I have looked at both the Guild Rules and the Articles of Association for the Limited Company - unless I have missed something, that rule does not exist - do you have any evidence to confirm your statement ?? Mike Apologies if I have made a mistake - I am certain I read that earlier in the thread and that was one of two points that stuck in my mind, hence my post. Steve S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 On 14/07/2020 at 13:57, Ohmisterporter said: I was a G0G member for several years but gave up about twenty five years ago when my modelling interests changed. At the time all correspondence was by paper mail. Then we were informed that the Guild was going to have an on-line forum; but wait! The introduction of such a forum was still being discussed as "The committee will have no control over its content". That was the whole point wasn't it? Another thing that I found odd was that nobody could stand for election as an officer of the guild until they had ten years membership in. No matter how talented or committed they may have been. Now, that rule cannot possibly have been in the list of guild rules as originally drawn up. I saw it as an attempt by the old guard to maintain their grip on the club that they had founded. As for the Gazette having a preponderance of steam based articles; the editor can only publish articles that are submitted to him. If diesel/electric era modellers want to see more articles to their interest they should perhaps write something for publication. Some of the above may have been changed since I left, if they have I welcome correction. There you go! I knew I hadn't made it up in the wee hours of the morning! As I am not a member of the GoG, I have to take what I read on here at face value. Plus, it resonated with personal experience of a society (amdram) which actually does have a similar rule for valid reasons, when the lack of such a rule led to the demise of another, well-established society. Notice Ohmrporter's final sentence (my emphasis) - I don't recall anyone correcting him previously... Steve S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said: Possibly this is another one of those bits of information that started as a rumour and is now the gospel truth because no one has checked the facts. Apparently at the next Guildex we all have to turn up wearing frock coats and stovepipe hats; those having a valet will be allowed to enter 30 minutes before the scheduled opening time. If you turn up in a Landau, your coachman will be entitles to a free lunch at the back door. Crikey! I hope that doesn't get lumped into "misc expenses"!!! Hat, coat... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 I would love to see real auditable ( by auditors from outside of the Guild) proof of the number of paid up Guild members there are. The real (auditable by external sources) number of copies of the Gazette would also be a good idea. I doubt the figures of both... Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffAlan Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 minute ago, SteveyDee68 said: Crikey! I hope that doesn't get lumped into "misc expenses"!!! Hat, coat... This reminds me of a text conversation I had the other day. My friend, let's call him Ian, because that's his name, has been universally condemned because his latest car has a button on the tailgate to close it automatically. Comments were along the lines of..... How lazy can you get?' I've just ordered a new car, which doesn't have such a button. Perhaps I can have some guidance. Assuming I'm out in the car and need something from the boot. When I'm done, and assuming they're both travelling with me, should one's valet or footman close the boot, or is it a job for the chauffeur? I don't want to 'put up a black' so urgent advice needed. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, GeoffAlan said: Perhaps I can have some guidance. Assuming I'm out in the car and need something from the boot. When I'm done, and assuming they're both travelling with me, should one's valet or footman close the boot, or is it a job for the chauffeur? I don't want to 'put up a black' so urgent advice needed. That's the footman. It's definitely below your valet's pay grade and your coachman would no doubt have some strong words to utter under his breath if you told him to do it. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 Assuming one has been motoring for some distance since the motor car was cleaned before departure, ther is the possibility that there may be dust, or even mud splashes on the boot lid handle. Opening and closing it is clearly the task of one's footman, who will be wearing gloves, and will also open and close the car door for one. The footman will also carry the required item to one's location and hand it to the valet. The valet will also be wearing gloves, but these should not be allowed to contact the boot handle. The chauffeur will be busy cleaning said dust or mud off the bodywork. 1 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2020 55 minutes ago, GeoffAlan said: This reminds me of a text conversation I had the other day. My friend, let's call him Ian, because that's his name, has been universally condemned because his latest car has a button on the tailgate to close it automatically. Comments were along the lines of..... How lazy can you get?' I've just ordered a new car, which doesn't have such a button. Perhaps I can have some guidance. Assuming I'm out in the car and need something from the boot. When I'm done, and assuming they're both travelling with me, should one's valet or footman close the boot, or is it a job for the chauffeur? I don't want to 'put up a black' so urgent advice needed. 38 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: That's the footman. It's definitely below your valet's pay grade and your coachman would no doubt have some strong words to utter under his breath if you told him to do it. 35 minutes ago, petethemole said: Assuming one has been motoring for some distance since the motor car was cleaned before departure, ther is the possibility that there may be dust, or even mud splashes on the boot lid handle. Opening and closing it is clearly the task of one's footman, who will be wearing gloves, and will also open and close the car door for one. The footman will also carry the required item to one's location and hand it to the valet. The valet will also be wearing gloves, but these should not be allowed to contact the boot handle. The chauffeur will be busy cleaning said dust or mud off the bodywork. Cuthbertson, would you please inform her Ladyship that I am going to drive through the woods to the village. I will be gone a considerable length of time 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 56 minutes ago, petethemole said: Assuming one has been motoring for some distance since the motor car was cleaned before departure, ther is the possibility that there may be dust, or even mud splashes on the boot lid handle. Opening and closing it is clearly the task of one's footman, who will be wearing gloves, and will also open and close the car door for one. The footman will also carry the required item to one's location and hand it to the valet. The valet will also be wearing gloves, but these should not be allowed to contact the boot handle. The chauffeur will be busy cleaning said dust or mud off the bodywork. Crikey - that's a carful! What you driving, squire, a stretch limousine*?! Steve S * AKA the perfect Covid-19 UBER vehicle 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 It seems there are fellow Downton Abbey fans on here. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ohmisterporter said: It seems there are fellow Downton Abbey fans on here. Not personally, but I remember Upstairs, Downstairs; I think I saw all episodes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, petethemole said: Not personally, but I remember Upstairs, Downstairs; I think I saw all episodes. I presume we are talking a multi level railway, much loved by those from the USA. In this particular case an Upstairs 7mm railway would be trains of magnificent pedigree (such as Beeson) thundering through land similar to m'lord's estate. As it descends through the house it's elegance is reduced as you pass through the nursery with it's Hornby tinplate until you get Downstairs. Here the railway is that similar to the plastic junk that you can buy from a garden centre to go around the Christmas tree. But it's all 0 Gauge! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 41 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said: Crikey - that's a carful! What you driving, squire, a stretch limousine*?! Steve S * AKA the perfect Covid-19 UBER vehicle Probably a landaulette, with front and rear bench seats. A single gentleman, touring on his own (!) would probably travel with all three servants, with the valet in the back, for conversation. A gentleman accompanied by his lady would dispense with (probably) the valet, or purchase a vehicle with an external rumble seat for the footman. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, petethemole said: Not personally, but I remember Upstairs, Downstairs; I think I saw all episodes. I also have a notebook containing about one third part of the manuscript of Town and County or Forty Years in Private Service with the Aristocracy (1937) by Charles W. Cooper, valet and butler to Sir Anthony Wingfield at Ampthill House in Bedfordshire, which is fascinating. Cooper accompanied Sir Anthony on his travels in the UK and abroad in the Edwardian period, but mainly by train, though I think cars are mentioned. When I was very small my father knew Mr Cooper and I was once taken to Ampthill House. I believe we acquired a few small items of furniture after Sir Anthony died and the house was demolished. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 4 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: There you go! I knew I hadn't made it up in the wee hours of the morning! Apologies - I had missed that first time around otherwise I would have queried it sooner. I proposed David Rae (representing the 'Reform Group') for the position of Chairman and didn't recall any questions about his (or my) length of service. Following on from the recent comments above, if David is successful in the vote for the top job, what does that make me . . . . . . ? Mike 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said: Apologies - I had missed that first time around otherwise I would have queried it sooner. I proposed David Rae (representing the 'Reform Group') for the position of Chairman and didn't recall any questions about his (or my) length of service. Following on from the recent comments above, if David is successful in the vote for the top job, what does that make me . . . . . . ? Mike The GoG equivalent to Dominic Cummings? Hat, coat... PS No offence intended, Mike! Edited August 2, 2020 by SteveyDee68 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted August 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said: No offence intended, Mike! None taken - it made me smile - and after reading some of the comments on the Guild site I haven't done much smiling in the last few days !! 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, petethemole said: valet and butler to Sir Anthony Wingfield Valet and butler..??!!?? Crickey I had no idea Sir Anthony was so cash-strapped that he couldn't afford two men, one for each job!! Which leads me to ask why the rest of you have only talked of valets, footmen and chauffeur on these jolly jaunts? Do you always leave your butler at home, then?? After all this Thread malarky I think from now on I'm just going to send my man to see Telford Guildex for me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fail safe Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 26 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said: Valet and butler..??!!?? Crickey I had no idea Sir Anthony was so cash-strapped that he couldn't afford two men, one for each job!! Which leads me to ask why the rest of you have only talked of valets, footmen and chauffeur on these jolly jaunts? Do you always leave your butler at home, then?? After all this Thread malarky I think from now on I'm just going to send my man to see Telford Guildex for me. Your man will be all on his own as they are not doing Telford any more! Going to Stafford Show ground I understand. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve W Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, fail safe said: Your man will be all on his own as they are not doing Telford any more! Going to Stafford Show ground I understand. What? reduced to showing off in cattle sheds? Actually, it's a lovely site with good access and parking, though the floors are a bit uneven. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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