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Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild


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9 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

The accountants have not audited the accounts, and offer no opinion on their accuracy. They only helped the guild to prepare them.

 

 

There doesn't seem to be a need for the accounts to be audited

 

Copied from   https://www.gov.uk/audit-exemptions-for-private-limited-companies

 

For financial years that begin on or after 1 January 2016

Your company may qualify for an audit exemption if it has at least 2 of the following:

an annual turnover of no more than £10.2 million

assets worth no more than £5.1 million

50 or fewer employees on average

 

 

There is a resolution being presented at the AGM that an independent audit should be undertaken - since this was first proposed, the committee has agreed to an audit. The proposal being put forward is rather specific about checking opening and closing balances, detailed income & expenditure related to events and a report on the adequacy of the reporting, recording and control systems - the Committee feels that these clauses are not required as they cannot give 'direction' to an independent auditor.

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51 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

But the woman on the stand was rude, apparently.

 

So an opportunity to tempt someone to join was lost.

 

So we are told. Spend an long, unpaid day having to tell people who think the rules about sales to non-members should apply to them and see how lovely you are. That, and we only have one disappointed customer's opinion - one who thinks they shouldn't even be allowed at a show. 

 

The whole sales to non-members debate has been covered many times. If you want the benefits of belonging to an organisation such as this, or the various manufacturers collectors clubs, join. If you won't join, don't moan you don't get the benefits.

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20 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

No legal need..... 

 

Yes. No legal need. That is the law - you suggest that anyone shouldn't comply with it? Or that money should be spent on an audit just to please someone who looks like they are trolling? If the members want an audit, they just need to vote for one, or refuse the pass the accounts at the AGM.

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3 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

"Look at all the goodies you can get ... but you have to join first. It only takes a minute or two..."

 

You've not dealt with many modellers at shows.

 

"I don't see why I have to pay extra to have that... "

"What have you got free?"

"Do you do that in N/O/S gauge?"

 

Some of them spend plenty of time thinking of questions that can't be answered or where you cannot give them an answer that satisfies their needs.

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5 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

I don't that's an excuse to be rude. I think societies need to be professional. You wouldn't put up with rudeness in a shop. Volunteers need to be trained to see each nonmember's attempt to buy something as an opportunity to recruit a member. "Look at all the goodies you can get ... but you have to join first. It only takes a minute or two..."

 

Then it's painfully obvious that you've never spent much time in a customer facing position. If you had, you would know that it's hard enough to be smiley 100% of the time when you are being paid. When you aren't, then it's not going to happen - and don't forget, you are condemning someone on only one person's opinion. Some people are going to be impossible to keep happy.

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Just now, Lantavian said:

 

I've worked in plenty of shops and volunteered for charity events in my time. It's not only modellers who can be difficult customers.

 

 

 

And you can guarantee that every single one of those people you served went out perfectly happy? Not "I did my best", an absolute guarantee.

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Just now, Lantavian said:

It's not only modellers who can be difficult customers.

 

Of course not but they are far more skilled at 'it' than just casual punters.

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1 minute ago, Lantavian said:

Being rude is an absolute guarantee of making customers unhappy.

 

You don't have to go to those lengths; just giving them an answer they didn't want will suffice.

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1 minute ago, Lantavian said:

 

No, I have. People can be ar5eholes. I know that. I've dealt with the public in many such situations before. Generally, I think British organisations have a problem with customer service. I don't think it's confined to volunteers at model railway show.

 

 

 

Do we?

 

Not been to France, Germany, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, USA, Australia, South Africa, etc. then have you?

 

Germany and France in particular has an attitude of "WHAT DO YOU WANT?". In American they are chasing you down the street because you haven't tipped them enough as they are only being polite for the tip.

 

 

Jason

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2 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

1. It sounds like you don't like modellers very much.

 

2. Are you in the right job?

 

1. There are some that I love, some that I can tolerate and some that I can't be in the same room with.

 

2. See above

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1 hour ago, ianathompson said:

 

A little digression and probably off track. If so tell me and I will reach for the tin helmet and creep back under my stone!!

 

A few years ago I attended York exhibition where the N gauge society had a stand, packed with lots of N Gauge Society 'goodies'.

I picked up a 6 wheel brake (Stove R) and tried to buy one.

I was rather rudely told by the woman serving, in no uncertain terms, that I could not do so as I was not a member of the Society.

There was no sign to this effect on the stand.

 

My point is: why were they allowed to occupy space at a puiblic exhibition but only sell to their established members?

I would quite happily have paid a premium for buying an item available to members at a discount.

 

Ian T (A very infrequent attender of exhibitions)

As an on/off member since 1975, I can't speak for the N Soc.

But, if I've got this right, they're supposed to be there to promote the society. Sounds like the person concerned didn't do a Good job there!

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6 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

Whatever I did, I was never rude to customers. Being rude is an absolute guarantee of making customers unhappy.

 

Weren't you? How do you know? Simply giving people an answer they don't want is considered by many to be rude. Even if the answer you give is correct, they will be grumpy and consider that you had been rude to them.

 

7 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

It sounds like you don't like modellers very much.

 

Are you in the right job?

 

This exchange is making me think I'm in the wrong job.

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20 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

You've not dealt with many modellers at shows.

 

"I don't see why I have to pay extra to have that... "

"What have you got free?"

"Do you do that in N/O/S gauge?"

 

Some of them spend plenty of time thinking of questions that can't be answered or where you cannot give them an answer that satisfies their needs.

The worst sort are the ones who have a world view not in touch with reality. I worked for 10 yrs in a customer service role and you'd get them convinced that Black was White and while the rest of the world thought otherwise. Moreover, it was up to the 7 billion to change, because they were right and everyone else wrong!

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6 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Do we?

 

Not been to France, Germany, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, USA, Australia, South Africa, etc. then have you?

 

Germany and France in particular has an attitude of "WHAT DO YOU WANT?". In American they are chasing you down the street because you haven't tipped them enough as they are only being polite for the tip.

 

 

Jason

 

He did not compare with other countries - just said that customer service is poor in many UK businesses.

 

And I wholly endorse that. It has got a whole lot worse in recent years as businesses cut costs (including outsourcing so much abroad) and relying on the computer to always be right when, due to poor programming, it is more often wrong.

 

Of all the many companies that I have dealt with over the last eight months (as I try to revive a business), only one or two have offered even adequate customer service. Most have been utterly incompetent and hopeless with energy companies to the fore.

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1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

If I were, that would make 2 of us.

 

The crystal ball on my desk has started glowing - I can see someone else is soon to be off to the Galapagos Islands for a long break today.

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13 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

The crystal ball on my desk has started glowing - I can see someone else is soon to be off to the Galapagos Islands for a long break today.

Why are you inflicting such on the Galapagos Islands?

 

What have they done to deserve that?

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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

So we are told. Spend an long, unpaid day having to tell people who think the rules about sales to non-members should apply to them and see how lovely you are. That, and we only have one disappointed customer's opinion - one who thinks they shouldn't even be allowed at a show. 

 

The whole sales to non-members debate has been covered many times. If you want the benefits of belonging to an organisation such as this, or the various manufacturers collectors clubs, join. If you won't join, don't moan you don't get the benefits.

 

 If it was the same women as I often encountered on the N gauge stand then she was an equal opportunity grump, equally brusk with members who just asked for stuff in stock. The current mob on the main stand is much more resilient; at Doncaster earlier in the year (was it six months ago?) the guy in front was being a pain and when it got to the point where it was not going to progress there was a pleasant but firm 'that was interesting, now that we have finished I need to help the next person'.  Hopefully the next time I won't have the current ritual to ask if the post 1976 warflat is available.

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It seems our friend from Hong Kong has disappeared - looks like I missed an interesting exchange of views with Andy and Phil . . . . . . 

 

Perhaps we can get back to discussing the Gauge O Guild . . . . . . . . . . . . 

 

.

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Late to this topic, as I am in no danger of having anything to do with the G0G, but I've found it a thoroughly entertaining discussion!

 

It might be worth considering why we join societies (and pay membership fees) - potentially a combination of several factors, which may or may not include (inter alia):

 

- Sociability;

- Member benefits (e.g. journals, limited editions/exclusives, library, discounts, trips, etc.);

- Access to expertise within a given field;

- Access to "privileged" information;

- Support for the aims of a society (e.g. historical research);

- Sense of obligation;

- Personal aggrandisement.

 

At a time when many railway societies (prototype and model) are suffering decline due to age profiles, the G0G must be offering enough of these factors to sustain the large membership reported in this thread.  That doesn't mean there aren't murmurings in the ranks, as this thread shows, but somehow they must be offering enough to enough people.  If membership doesn't tick enough boxes, then there is no reason to continue, and misplaced loyalty comes at a price. 

 

In common with many societies, I can appreciate why the G0G has a standard "membership year".  I'm fully sympathetic to membership secretaries having to chase up renewals only once a year, process changes of address, remind members when subscriptions increase, etc., etc.  It's a largely thankless task and I try to ensure my subscriptions are covered by direct debits and standing orders.

 

I do agree that it does seem a little off-putting (and deceptive) to potential new members not to pro rate membership fees and certainly to fail to explain about a shortened year when joining.  However, for many societies (I cannot comment on the G0G) the benefits that accrue from membership are not limited to those spread out over the course of a year (e.g. journals and entry to events) as members can often avail themselves immediately of various goodies (e.g. discounted items) which can outweigh the cost of membership.

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6 hours ago, GlenPudzeoch said:

 

I have been to several O gauge clubs in Scotland and England,  At one I was asked to show my Gauge O card.  The Guild may not have associated clubs, but some clubs clearly associate with it - this may not be within the Guild's control, but if it is against their rules they need t make clubs listing with them know.

 

Kettering great foer the midlands, but useless for Scotland or the south. (I know there are shows in Pollokshaws and Linlithgow but they are not Guild organised ones.

 

 Glen P

 

 

 

As far as I know the Linlithgow show is known as Scotgog and has a form of subsidy from the Guild to allow Scottish members to have a show. As a French and formerly  English based member I am quite happy for this to happen.

 

On a broader front I will be voting and hope to see change for the better. I firmly believe that change is better managed from within rather than setting up splinter groups. I have seen this happen in other areas of my interests, particularly churches. It never ends well.

 

Finally re the debate about rude customers, as a police officer I was in a unique position. If they failed the attitude test I could lawfully lay hands on them and assist them, willingly or not towards the cells. It was sometimes the best thing to do.

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208
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Having been a Guild member and now a non member I can say there are a lot of very good people in the Guild as members.  After all, why shouldn't there be.

However. Most members renew out of long standing habit. Most members model the steam period. One director said last year, he hated the modern railway. So many ideas have been rejected its just became surreal to watch it unfold.

 

The main problem is that the organisation itself has become secretive in some respects at a high level, and is a self perpetuating phenomenon, and as such has drifted into todays world without noticing the passage of time to some extent.  Most of the people who have run the Guild over the last twenty years have been dominant, arrogant and know best, and if the face doesn't fit they won't answer you or entertain your ideas. You have to suck up to them to get anywhere, or behave in a subservient way in order to demonstrate you are not a threat to their status quo. This may sound a bit melodramatic but it is strangely true, and is why the Guild doesn't appear as relevant today as it should be.

 

And if any Guild management are reading this, then what did they think would happen to those who threatened to leave, and then did not renew their subs this last March?  Did they think their influence could reach out to stifle public debate?

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5 hours ago, EddieB said:

Late to this topic, as I am in no danger of having anything to do with the G0G, but I've found it a thoroughly entertaining discussion!

 

It might be worth considering why we join societies (and pay membership fees) - potentially a combination of several factors, which may or may not include (inter alia):

 

- Sociability;

- Member benefits (e.g. journals, limited editions/exclusives, library, discounts, trips, etc.);

- Access to expertise within a given field;

- Access to "privileged" information;

- Support for the aims of a society (e.g. historical research);

- Sense of obligation;

- Personal aggrandisement.

 

At a time when many railway societies (prototype and model) are suffering decline due to age profiles, the G0G must be offering enough of these factors to sustain the large membership reported in this thread.  That doesn't mean there aren't murmurings in the ranks, as this thread shows, but somehow they must be offering enough to enough people.  If membership doesn't tick enough boxes, then there is no reason to continue, and misplaced loyalty comes at a price. 

 

In common with many societies, I can appreciate why the G0G has a standard "membership year".  I'm fully sympathetic to membership secretaries having to chase up renewals only once a year, process changes of address, remind members when subscriptions increase, etc., etc.  It's a largely thankless task and I try to ensure my subscriptions are covered by direct debits and standing orders.

 

I do agree that it does seem a little off-putting (and deceptive) to potential new members not to pro rate membership fees and certainly to fail to explain about a shortened year when joining.  However, for many societies (I cannot comment on the G0G) the benefits that accrue from membership are not limited to those spread out over the course of a year (e.g. journals and entry to events) as members can often avail themselves immediately of various goodies (e.g. discounted items) which can outweigh the cost of membership.

It's been interesting, if sometimes painful, to follow this discussion and it is very  relevant to anyone involved in any Society. We can all learn lessons from this for our own organisations such as. Is the Society that the committee thinks it is offering,  the same Society that "ordinary" members experience.

 

The French Railways Society, along with a couple of others I belong to, does have a standard calendar year membership period but, for those who join after September, their membership runs to the end of the following year. New members also receive all the preceding Journals for that year.  In cash terms the journal actually is the main "member benefit" . There are many others including an extensive library , large photo archive and a members' email group, but the real benefits of membership are or should be priceless.  

 

If a society is any good (and I don't know enough about the GOG to comment on that) then a new member should feel they've had the full value of their annual membership in a lot less than a year.

 

 

 

Edited by Pacific231G
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6 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

That, and we only have one disappointed customer's opinion - one who thinks they shouldn't even be allowed at a show. 

 

I don't recall saying that they should not be there.

i sought enlightenment regarding their inclusion and received an initially reasonable answer from yourself amongst others.


As I pointed out I rarely attend exhibitions and I am sure that it is possible to become short tempered over various issues whilst running such a stall.

I will bear that in mind next time that I see  a stall run by such an organisation in the future.

 

Ian T

 

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