Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild

[Craigw]

7 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

Nope,

 

 I chose to become an RMweb Gold member to  benefit from the additional excellent ‘perks and privileges’ afforded by paid membership whilst the GoG member adds his membership number purely as an attempt to gain perceived status within the GoG. In short, you are irrevocably wrong.
 

Btw, thanks for selecting only my comment, was Dave (Chris P Bacon) invisible?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks?

 

Please, do not flatter yourself.

 

Yours was the last reply when I looked. I can assure you there would be no other reason

 

Craig W

[hayfield]

12 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

The posts and ratings are part of the software so we get no choice in whether they're there or not, as for Gold, I choose to support the site and my avatar was changed. I have no doubt that it isn't about status but making it visible so more sign up so that the site pays for itself.

 

12 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

Nope,

 

 I chose to become an RMweb Gold member to  benefit from the additional excellent ‘perks and privileges’ afforded by paid membership whilst the GoG member adds his membership number purely as an attempt to gain perceived status within the GoG. In short, you are irrevocably wrong.
 

Btw, thanks for selecting only my comment, was Dave (Chris P Bacon) invisible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

As at least Dave knows I am an avid user of the site, I thought (perhaps wrongly) it allowed me to sell things on the platform. As I respect you both should I become a member and if so how would I benefit?

[chris p bacon]

30 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I thought (perhaps wrongly) it allowed me to sell things on the platform.

Gold gives you access to the Classifieds, I've sold stuff through there several times. 

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, Craigw said:

The gold badge, number of post and rating are all status symbols in RMWeb

 

Now it's starting to sound like you are criticising RMweb for a GOG observation. Back up please. 

[F-UnitMad]

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Not bad for an organisation that hasn't made it worth being a member since it was formed.

I think you're reading it wrong the way the person you quoted punctuated his sentence that started "Since it was formed".

To re-iterate; in it's earlier days, the Guild clearly was worth joining. Nowadays, for many, it isn't, and for various reasons that have been posted, people who have joined, have not renewed.

The OP's intent was to explore why, and what can be done to make the Guild worth joining, either for the first time, or again.

Two things stand out to me from this Thread -

1) be a hell of a lot more transparent about the Membership Year, especially when joining well into that 'year', and also transparent about finances, particularly "Misc. Expenses"; and

2) the lack of a Guild 'Store', or products O Scalers need that could be provided through the Guild itself.

This however is a difficult one - what products to stock?? Back in the 1950s I imagine it was pretty clear what O Scale modellers were doing - coarse scale standards, building their own track (& everything else), probably in the garden, and Steam because that was what everyone modelled back then and what was on the real railway anyway. Hence get a company to make cast track chairs. It was a start.

Nowadays O Scale is so much more diverse, with plenty of suppliers for each field of interest. What might everyone in O Scale need, regardless of interest? Even a Scale Ruler (yes I know they're available elsewhere anyway) might not suit everyone - I would need one to 1:48th Scale, as well as in 1:43..!!!

TBH, I can understand why the Guild itself doesn't have a store in the way that the EMGS does.

 

[t-b-g]

18 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Now it's starting to sound like you are criticising RMweb for a GOG observation. Back up please. 

 

I don't see it is a criticism at all. Simply a comment that RMWeb has a system for identifying the old lags and the newcomers in much the same way as quoting a membership number does in the Guild.

 

A quick glance through the Gazette showed lots of names, some known to me as long standing O Gauge members, who do not give a membership number.

 

I think it is more a case of people trying to invent problems to have a go at the Guild about than any criticism of RMWeb. Likewise there will be people who have been members of the Guild for many years but do little modelling. I have never seen anybody in the Guild say "I have a low number therefore I am more important or have a higher status". It is an "inference" that unless somebody can prove otherwise is an invention to stir ill feeling.

 

There are, to my knowledge, some fine modellers who are members of RMWeb but rarely post. So their ratings and post numbers will be low.

 

Likewise I have never seen anybody try to play a "Seniority" card on here. Although I did once get a "Don't you know who I am?" from somebody!

 

 

[t-b-g]

10 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I think you're reading it wrong the way the person you quoted punctuated his sentence that started "Since it was formed".

To re-iterate; in it's earlier days, the Guild clearly was worth joining. Nowadays, for many, it isn't, and for various reasons that have been posted, people who have joined, have not renewed.

The OP's intent was to explore why, and what can be done to make the Guild worth joining, either for the first time, or again.

Two things stand out to me from this Thread -

1) be a hell of a lot more transparent about the Membership Year, especially when joining well into that 'year', and also transparent about finances, particularly "Misc. Expenses"; and

2) the lack of a Guild 'Store', or products O Scalers need that could be provided through the Guild itself.

This however is a difficult one - what products to stock?? Back in the 1950s I imagine it was pretty clear what O Scale modellers were doing - coarse scale standards, building their own track (& everything else), probably in the garden, and Steam because that was what everyone modelled back then and what was on the real railway anyway. Hence get a company to make cast track chairs. It was a start.

Nowadays O Scale is so much more diverse, with plenty of suppliers for each field of interest. What might everyone in O Scale need, regardless of interest? Even a Scale Ruler (yes I know they're available elsewhere anyway) might not suit everyone - I would need one to 1:48th Scale, as well as in 1:43..!!!

TBH, I can understand why the Guild itself doesn't have a store in the way that the EMGS does.

 

 

Even the EMGS store is going through big changes, with several people taking it on and not lasting very long, with talk of streamlining the product range and ditching lines that have been stocked for many years but don't sell.

 

It is a fact that most products can now be bought direct from small suppliers and the unique items, made especially for the EM Society, are now down to a tiny number.

 

To my way of thinking, the Guild has a role in getting the specialist traders and the members together at the shows and doesn't need a direct selling role that would compete with the very people who bring trade stands to shows. If a particular range vanishes, it is likely because it was for sale at too high a price or the demand was limited. Either way, not a good business prospect for a Guild trying to reduce costs.

 

 

[sir douglas]

could people stop bickering, its getting as bad as the guild forum

[Guest Jack Benson]

8 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

 Either way, not a good business prospect for a Guild trying to reduce costs.

 

 

Hi,

 

Surely reducing overheads is the first step in reducing costs, such as a root and branch review of the number of members receiving expenses combined with transparency as to who claims and for what? The over used excuse of ‘audited’ accounts doesn’t wash if transparency is reduced to an overall figure.
 

Cheers and Stay Safe

 

 

[t-b-g]

4 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

Hi,

 

Surely reducing overheads is the first step in reducing costs, such as a root and branch review of the number of members receiving expenses combined with transparency as to who claims and for what? The over used excuse of ‘audited’ accounts doesn’t wash if transparency is reduced to an overall figure.
 

Cheers and Stay Safe

 

 

 

I would agree but my point was about buying product ranges.

[F-UnitMad]

46 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Likewise I have never seen anybody try to play a "Seniority" card on here. Although I did once get a "Don't you know who I am?" from somebody!

And did you??  

[Guest Jack Benson]

39 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I would agree but my point was about buying product ranges.

Hi,

 

This is where the reform and reactionary groups tend to part company. The idea of Guild finances being used for expenses for 20+ entitled members is questionable but the use of funds to ensure the viability of a range of unique products......that discussion is worth careful consideration. Is the real issue the fact that many of these products only appeal to the ‘finescale’ element within the Guild (a complaint previously heard at Telford and Reading) whilst an initiative to secure the purchase of spring steel for clockwork is considered to be saving an essential part of the heritage? 
 

Most likely I am wrong but saving the 1:43 ABS range or at least saving the moulds in case a buyer does not emerge is a better use of resources than expenses.

 

Btw, not bickering, merely a heartfelt plea for some sanity.

 

Cheers and Stay Safe

 

 

 

[t-b-g]

33 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

And did you??  

 

I did! It was somebody I used to respect.

[t-b-g]

Just now, Jack Benson said:

Hi,

 

This is where the reform and reactionary groups tend to part company. The idea of Guild finances being used for expenses for 20+ entitled members is questionable but the use of funds to ensure the viability of a range of unique products......that discussion is worth careful consideration. Is the real issue the fact that many of these products only appeal to the ‘finescale’ element within the Guild (a complaint previously heard at Telford and Reading) whilst an initiative to secure the purchase of spring steel for clockwork is considered to be saving an essential part of the heritage? 
 

Most likely I am wrong but saving the 1:43 ABS range or at least saving the moulds in case a buyer does not emerge is a better use of resources than expenses.

 

Btw, not bickering, merely a heartfelt plea for some sanity.

 

Cheers and Stay Safe

 

 

 

 

It would be nice but I see many practical problems.

 

"The Guild" is made up of individuals. Those who run things are volunteers.

 

You would need to pay out a considerable amount of money for the business and then what?

 

You need somebody with good skills and lots of spare time that they are willing to give up for no reward so that members can buy ABS products. If you buy the business and save it but don't produce anything, that is a waste of money plus you need to find somewhere to keep it all.

 

I think this is why the Guild set out to encourage manufacturers rather than become one. Unless you have the people and facilities, it is very difficult.

 

If the business is viable when transferred to new owners, it would be much better if a consortium, like the Finney 7 group, take it on, or an individual with the skill and time to do it properly. To a person or people who can legitimately earn money for doing it rather than a volunteer expected to do the work of an unpaid trader.

 

 

 

[fail safe]

19 hours ago, Craigw said:

But if things like this are the biggest issues you can raise then you have the problem, not them.

Eh? I didn't raise it I was taking the proverbial out of it. Think you need to read back over again!

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi T-B-G,

 

Considering the demographic and the number of solicitors, doctors, company directors, engineers and other awfully clever bods amongst the membership, I am astounded that the Guild lacks a volunteer with a modicum of business sense. As for unpaid, is this another excuse for expanding the number of those entitled to claim expenses? 
 

Why do you not respond to the question of decreasing the overheads by reducing the number of entitled claimants rather than attempt to divert the issue to one of ‘manufacturing’?  Is this a problem that you prefer not to discuss? 
 

Sorry but reform within the Guild is not an issue that is going away. 
 

In the meantime, stay safe

[t-b-g]

25 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

Hi T-B-G,

 

Considering the demographic and the number of solicitors, doctors, company directors, engineers and other awfully clever bods amongst the membership, I am astounded that the Guild lacks a volunteer with a modicum of business sense. As for unpaid, is this another excuse for expanding the number of those entitled to claim expenses? 
 

Why do you not respond to the question of decreasing the overheads by reducing the number of entitled claimants rather than attempt to divert the issue to one of ‘manufacturing’?  Is this a problem that you prefer not to discuss? 
 

Sorry but reform within the Guild is not an issue that is going away. 
 

In the meantime, stay safe

 

I will discuss any problem you like but not like this!

 

 

 

[Guest Jack Benson]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

I will discuss any problem you like but not like this!

 

 

 

Hi interested others,

 

“Not like this!” is the issue the subject matter and why the use of an exclamation mark, I am offended by the tone but not surprised.

 

I think that we are done here, the discussion has established a number of no-go subjects and have nothing more to add.
 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Jack Benson
No being drawn into an argument.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Jack Benson said:

Hi interested others,

 

“Not like this!” is the issue the subject matter and why the use of an exclamation mark, I am offended by the tone but not surprised.

 

I think that we are done here, the discussion has established a number of no-go subjects and have nothing more to add.
 

 

No offence intended. I was just concerned that we were not really understanding what each other was trying to say. Thanks for the lively discussion and I will also add no more.

[Craigw]

7 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I don't see it is a criticism at all. Simply a comment that RMWeb has a system for identifying the old lags and the newcomers in much the same way as quoting a membership number does in the Guild.

 

 

 

 

 Someone appreciates my point . Thank you. It was never intended as a criticism of RM Web.

 

Regards,

 

Craig w

[Arun Sharma]

On 08/08/2020 at 17:58, fail safe said:

Oooh my numbers smaller than yours, I must be more important.

Not 'more important' - more 'My opinion is more valid than yours'. There has been much discussion on the G0G forum about this in the past. The membership number is part of the default setting that identifies the poster. It is rare now to find the membership number also quoted as part of the signature block and those who do it are often laughed at behind their back - They are seemingly generally unaware of this of course!

Edited August 9, 2020 by Arun Sharma

[polybear]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Even the EMGS store is going through big changes, with several people taking it on and not lasting very long, with talk of streamlining the product range and ditching lines that have been stocked for many years but don't sell.

 

 

 

In fairness to the EMGS, they have also been introducing new ranges to the stores, not least the considerable effort and outlay involved with the introduction of RTR EM Turnouts from Peco.

[chris p bacon]

7 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I think this is why the Guild set out to encourage manufacturers rather than become one. Unless you have the people and facilities, it is very difficult.

 

Now that there are many manufacturers and the Guild is unlikely to become one of them, what exactly is the point of it ? 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

In fairness to the EMGS, they have also been introducing new ranges to the stores, not least the considerable effort and outlay involved with the introduction of RTR EM Turnouts from Peco.

 

Yes they have and as you say, fair play to them. The EMGS/Peco points ready to lay were a first and have played a big part, I am sure, in giving the Society a boost in new members joining.

 

I am a member and wouldn't like to give the impression that I was being critical. The EMGS stores is a facility I have used often. It is from talking to the EMGS stores people that I learned just what is involved and that it can be very time consuming for the lucky person who volunteers!

 

 

[t-b-g]

2 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Now that there are many manufacturers and the Guild is unlikely to become one of them, what exactly is the point of it ? 

 

Too deep for me. I just enjoy the shows, the magazine and the social interaction with people who share my interests. Whether it needs more point than that is above my pay grade to work out!