Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild

[Barry O]

The GoG is not all run by Volunteers. It pays Artetype to not only publish the Gazette but also some of the Admin.

It is no longer a truly "voluntary" organisation as it employs people to do work that they believe no volunteer will do.

 

If the GoG wanted to stock items what would it be? Wheels?.well Slaters do stock lots of them,  motors?...lots of different suppliers stock them...provide items from the ABS range? Who has the skills to do this but it may be someone has already sorted that out.

 

So unlike the EMGS ( I am not a member but could be tempted) who are filling a major gap with their RTR track, what could the GoG sell which others don't already sell?

Baz

[fail safe]

Meanwhile I'm told on good authority there are a small number of Guild management supporters disrupting the reform candidates discussions on the Guild forum. Not arguing necessarily in support of a management committee, who refuse to engage at all, but to make the reform candidates look faulty and misguided. The result of the election will define the Guild for the next decade, in that it may well either prosper, or slowly fade into obscurity after this.

Don't think I'll be rejoining at this rate.

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Now that there are many manufacturers and the Guild is unlikely to become one of them, what exactly is the point of it ? 

 

That, surely, is for GOG members to decide.

 

Clearly, its initial purpose is no longer needed as there are plenty of manufacturers producing 0 gauge materials.

 

But there is surely still a role for a body to provide events, information, etc for 0 gauge modellers. Whether the GOG, as currently run, is the best-placed to do that is another question. Are there people out there who would want to create a new national "club" for 0 gauge modellers?

[CUTLER2579]

How can you have a democratically fair election when Directors of the Guild are telling people how to vote by email. It is not illegal according to the Acting Chairman,but clearly it is immoral to try to influence the vote. The guild is outdated and not in the 21st Century,but clearly suits the vast majority of members. However when several items are lumped together in the accounts as miscellaneous expenditure it does not suit me any more and I will not be renewing in March 2021.

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

How can you have a democratically fair election when Directors of the Guild are telling people how to vote by email. It is not illegal according to the Acting Chairman,but clearly it is immoral to try to influence the vote. The guild is outdated and not in the 21st Century,but clearly suits the vast majority of members. However when several items are lumped together in the accounts as miscellaneous expenditure it does not suit me any more and I will not be renewing in March 2021.

 

I think that the Acting Chairman may be wrong on that point. G0G is entitled to hold membership records under GDPR. But the use of that data must be appropriate. I would suggest that use of the e-mail database to send out electoral material just for one side is a breach of GDPR and therefore unlawful and, perhaps, illegal. "Reform" candidates may wish to raise this with the Information Commissioner's Office.

[hayfield]

17 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I would agree but my point was about buying product ranges.

 

One thing to bare in mind is has the society the capacity to run a decent size operation, both in staff and storage facilities. Its a very big commitment for a lone volunteer. Could the society afford the acquisition and storage facility costs, let alone some form of part time remuneration expenses ? 

[fail safe]

I don't think they were talking about large items for sale to members, just maybe a few useful items that are difficult to source. Something that would support the scale like the S7 group do with the Exactoscale parts otherwise unavailable. I'm sure with a bit of creativity there would be a few unusual items that could be stocked. This in turn would make being a member more worthwhile. Management has to date categorically refused to do this with the usual lame excuses. They always know best and rarely listen to ideas. If they do put any into place they always claim it was their idea. Also, Artytype are paid to do a hell of a lot for the Guild and maybe they could stock items and administer this under the watch of a volunteer.

 

One problem with the Guild in this matter is that it claims to be all things to all 7mm scale modellers. So what should they stock? Items for course scale or items for fine scale? Or even the various narrow gauges?  In any case I'm afraid what the Guild has always lacked is imagination, consequently this issue is unlikely to be solved until there are separate groups for the different concepts in modelling.  After all there is an S7 Group already.

[2mm Andy]

3 hours ago, fail safe said:

I don't think they were talking about large items for sale to members, just maybe a few useful items that are difficult to source. Something that would support the scale like the S7 group do with the Exactoscale parts otherwise unavailable. I'm sure with a bit of creativity there would be a few unusual items that could be stocked. This in turn would make being a member more worthwhile. Management has to date categorically refused to do this with the usual lame excuses. They always know best and rarely listen to ideas. If they do put any into place they always claim it was their idea. Also, Artytype are paid to do a hell of a lot for the Guild and maybe they could stock items and administer this under the watch of a volunteer.

 

One problem with the Guild in this matter is that it claims to be all things to all 7mm scale modellers. So what should they stock? Items for course scale or items for fine scale? Or even the various narrow gauges?  In any case I'm afraid what the Guild has always lacked is imagination, consequently this issue is unlikely to be solved until there are separate groups for the different concepts in modelling.  After all there is an S7 Group already.

 

Any you would then no doubt get people grumbling about having to become a member in order to buy items from the members shop....

 

Some of the scale societies (2mm, S Scale, etc.) run their own member's shops as it is not viable for commercial suppliers to produce and sell the items necessary to model in those scales, but there is a fairly healthy trade support in O gauge already with multiple sources for most items, so is there really a need for a member's shop?

 

Andy

[Arun Sharma]

7 hours ago, Barry O said:

What could the GoG sell which others don't already sell?

Baz

Personally, if I had to choose something, I would suggest 7mm GB-style OLE bits - which may then encourage manufacturers to start producing 'Modern Image' AC locomotives and EMUs.

[fail safe]

8 minutes ago, 2mm Andy said:

 

Any you would then no doubt get people grumbling about having to become a member in order to buy items from the members shop....

 

Some of the scale societies (2mm, S Scale, etc.) run their own member's shops as it is not viable for commercial suppliers to produce and sell the items necessary to model in those scales, but there is a fairly healthy trade support in O gauge already with multiple sources for most items, so is there really a need for a member's shop?

 

Andy

That may be true, but we are on a precipice at the moment with that 'healthy support', as many of the valued traders in 7mm are retiring or about to retire. Perhaps because of the RTR influence they are not being replaced. Especially worrying are those who also supply small parts, accessories etc such as the late lamented ABS who's owner consumed so many names, like Classic Commercials and Cavalier, only to have them disappear without trace on his passing away. I could list maybe a dozen who have disappeared without trace over recent times. Nobody could retrieve everything but at least some effort in one or two areas would help, even as an arbitrator. I'm the first to admit I haven't got the answer. It does need creative thinking.

[fail safe]

2 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

Personally, if I had to choose something, I would suggest 7mm GB-style OLE bits - which may then encourage manufacturers to start producing 'Modern Image' AC locomotives and EMUs.

Thats it in one. How that would encourage things to move forward. Brilliant.

[Barry O]

21 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

Personally, if I had to choose something, I would suggest 7mm GB-style OLE bits - which may then encourage manufacturers to start producing 'Modern Image' AC locomotives and EMUs.

If you are a trade liaison officer have you tried getting some made up for sale?

Baz

[2mm Andy]

 

2 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

Personally, if I had to choose something, I would suggest 7mm GB-style OLE bits - which may then encourage manufacturers to start producing 'Modern Image' AC locomotives and EMUs.

 

https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/o7catenary.html

[Happy Hippo]

7 hours ago, fail safe said:

I don't think they were talking about large items for sale to members, just maybe a few useful items that are difficult to source. Something that would support the scale like the S7 group do with the Exactoscale parts otherwise unavailable. I'm sure with a bit of creativity there would be a few unusual items that could be stocked. This in turn would make being a member more worthwhile. Management has to date categorically refused to do this with the usual lame excuses. They always know best and rarely listen to ideas. If they do put any into place they always claim it was their idea. Also, Artytype are paid to do a hell of a lot for the Guild and maybe they could stock items and administer this under the watch of a volunteer.

 

One problem with the Guild in this matter is that it claims to be all things to all 7mm scale modellers. So what should they stock? Items for course scale or items for fine scale? Or even the various narrow gauges?  In any case I'm afraid what the Guild has always lacked is imagination, consequently this issue is unlikely to be solved until there are separate groups for the different concepts in modelling.  After all there is an S7 Group already.

When I first mentioned the ABS 7 mm assets I did use the word 'hypothetically' in the statement.  It was used as merely an example.

 

Another example of how the Guild stores could have done a lot of members a big favour was during the Heljan diesel gears saga. 

 

Did the Guild get on Heljan's back over their  poor engineering quality control ?

Did the Guild look to source replacements?

 

The answer to the above was no!

 

It took Jim Snowdon to do that, and when he had sorted it all out so that replacement gears were available, did the Guild think 'This could be a nice little earner' and buy the complete stock of gears from Jim, and sell them through the stores?

 

Of course not.

 

 

 

[Arun Sharma]

5 hours ago, Barry O said:

If you are a trade liaison officer have you tried getting some made up for sale?

Baz

I am torn between asking Peco to scale up their 4mm ones or designing my own to go with my 7mm class 309/1 unit. At the moment I would probably prefer to produce my own as LW castings and 'H' section brass . However, for general use I will happily speak to Peco regarding this  when next we have a show.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Arun Sharma
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[GlenPudzeoch]

I appreciate that it is all very well to say "someone should " and the inevitable reply is " well volunteered", and it is necessary to get a suitably qualified volunteer, but it would be useful if a scale-devoted organisation such as the Guild considered "succession Planning" for small manufacturers.

 

We may all love Joes Loco Kits, but Joe aint gonna live forever. and Mrs Joe or the Joeettes probably dont want to take over the buisness, so if and when Joe goes what happens to a popular range of Kits or widgets?  Sold off, binned or given away. And the hobby loses a worthwhile source.

 

We dont think about what happens when we are not around and sometimes the unexpected happens, but if an organisation was able to have a discussion with an owner about helping in a future transition, it may stop the loss of a much appreciated resource.

[mike hughes]

On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 16:01, Arun Sharma said:

Personally, if I had to choose something, I would suggest 7mm GB-style OLE bits - which may then encourage manufacturers to start producing 'Modern Image' AC locomotives and EMUs.

Some Overhead EMU's are coming slowly

 

Michael

[jamie92208]

I actually produced Midland Railway 1907 style  OLE for Green Ayre and am scratchbuiding the emu's i had a lot of help from guild members annd traders that I met at Telford.

 

Jamie

 

 

[Ohmisterporter]

23 hours ago, GlenPudzeoch said:

I appreciate that it is all very well to say "someone should " and the inevitable reply is " well volunteered", and it is necessary to get a suitably qualified volunteer, but it would be useful if a scale-devoted organisation such as the Guild considered "succession Planning" for small manufacturers.

 

We may all love Joes Loco Kits, but Joe aint gonna live forever. and Mrs Joe or the Joeettes probably dont want to take over the buisness, so if and when Joe goes what happens to a popular range of Kits or widgets?  Sold off, binned or given away. And the hobby loses a worthwhile source.

 

We dont think about what happens when we are not around and sometimes the unexpected happens, but if an organisation was able to have a discussion with an owner about helping in a future transition, it may stop the loss of a much appreciated resource.

 

There have been cases of small suppliers deciding to retire and thinking that their moulds, jigs, presses, whatever have a value way above what a potential buyer is prepared to pay. It can be very difficult to let your baby go for what you see as less than its value. Where the guild could step in is as a mediator between seller and buyer to help settle on a price that both sides see as reasonable. 

[whart57]

I am also aware of cases where the production methods used in "Joe's Works" discourage others taking them on, or even frighten others off. There is a story of a wheel maker whose centrifugal casting machine was a bucket swung round his garage on a rope ........

 

Real problems I have encountered though are moulds that were for an obsolete machine and can't be used on current machines, excessively labour intensive moulding processes and worn out tools that were too costly to replace. I believe there was also a case where "Mrs Joe" was so resentful of the time "Joe" spent on his model railway stuff that the first thing she did after the crematorium curtains closed on Joe was throw all his stuff out so no-one else could have it.

[Poggy1165]

I was surprised (although in a way not surprised) to see how few members have traditionally voted in GOG elections. IIRC the figure given was 7%! This means that the managing body do not really have a democratic mandate, they are there by default. Of course, some would say that if only Joe is standing for Chairman (or whatever office) there is not much point in voting.

 

It is odd though that in this year when there is at last a contested election, there seems to be an attitude in some quarters of: "How dare non-approved candidates stand!" (Normally the attitude is: "If you're not happy, why not volunteer for office?")

 

I think the GOG is a very conservative (small c) organisation with some inbuilt inertia and resistance to change. But what is the chief problem is not so much what it is, as what it is perceived to be, especially by outsiders. Stuffy, outdated, cliquish and unwelcoming, and not open to new ideas. Whether this is true or not is almost irrelevant.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Poggy1165

[Joseph_Pestell]

Overhead line is a bit of tricky one!

 

If it has not been much available in 4mm scale until now, there are good reasons for that and I am saying that as someone who was involved with the ScaleLink 1.5kV in HO (which would look OK on a British 4mm scale layout).

 

Would 7mm scale modellers accept the major compromises that have been designed into the 4mm product? A good tensioning system would certainly be needed over the lengths of span required.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[F-UnitMad]

31 minutes ago, Poggy1165 said:

But what is the chief problem is not so much what it is, as what it is perceived to be, especially by outsiders. Stuffy, outdated, cliquish and unwelcoming, and not open to new ideas. Whether this is true or not is almost irrelevant.

Very true, although it's also worth asking why & how those perceptions have come about.

[chris p bacon]

When is the election? I am presuming that it is all postal voting with votes counted by an independant 3rd party.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Poggy1165 said:

I was surprised (although in a way not surprised) to see how few members have traditionally voted in GOG elections. IIRC the figure given was 7%! This means that the managing body do not really have a democratic mandate, they are there by default.

 

If only 7% bother to vote, then why is that not valid? They aren't there 'by default', but the way those who cast their votes did vote.

 

Besides, I would have thought Britain not that long ago, learnt what happens if many people don't vote. No good complaining later, that the result didn't go your way!