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Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild


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1 hour ago, ROSSPOP said:

 

ABSOLUTELY !

 

I am so so personally comforted that my membership (ex) fee no longer supports this outdated organisation.

Me too, and soon there may well be a few more of us if the Reform candidates don't win seats. Even if they do there will be a massive up hill struggle to truly reform the Guild as the culture of secrecy is so embedded.

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I think one of the problems is that the majority of the members do not access the forum and therefore are in complete ignorance of the issues. They get information from the Gazette and Guild News which are controlled by the Committee. It will wither and die without new blood.

 

Terry

 

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4 hours ago, TJ52 said:

I think one of the problems is that the majority of the members do not access the forum and therefore are in complete ignorance of the issues. They get information from the Gazette and Guild News which are controlled by the Committee. It will wither and die without new blood.

 

Terry

 

If most of the members don't know about any issues, why would they leave?

 

The Guild will continue with the majority of members, exactly as it has for years, assuming the majority are oblivious to the goings on.

 

Until one day, the members realise that most of the cash reserves, has been spent!

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5 hours ago, kevinlms said:

If most of the members don't know about any issues, why would they leave?

 

The Guild will continue with the majority of members, exactly as it has for years, assuming the majority are oblivious to the goings on.

 

Until one day, the members realise that most of the cash reserves, has been spent!

 

The Annual Report has been sent to all members - the actual surplus for the year was just £316 but would you be happy with the fact that the sum of £246,784 has been spent on 'Other costs' and no one is prepared to explain where the money has gone.

 

Mike

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2 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

The Annual Report has been sent to all members - the actual surplus for the year was just £316 but would you be happy with the fact that the sum of £246,784 has been spent on 'Other costs' and no one is prepared to explain where the money has gone.

 

Mike

I was replying to TJ52's comment about the majority not knowing (or caring?), about what is going on. Not suggesting that I agree.

 

A fellow club member told me about another (sporting) club AGM, that he'd been involved with. The big debate raged for an hour, because $100 worth of electrical tape had been used in the last 12 months.

 

It was a good diversion by someone, because what DIDN'T get discussed, was that $10,000 had gone missing from the bar!  The AGM meeting & Treasurers Report was accepted as is. That occurred 20 years ago.

 

So no, I would not be happy that huge amounts of cash had been spent without apparent reason. Just pointing out how ordinary members can be deceived.

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I'm informed by a reliable source that it's been announced the Guild accounts have now been audited, but the secretary will not reveal the name of the auditor or give any other information. There has to be an extraordinary reason not to do this. 

 

Some prominent members are now calling for the election to be halted, and some are calling for a vote of no confidence.

 

Doesn't look like I'll be re joining any time soon to say the least. Railway modelling is supposed to be a pleasant pastime without all this rubbish. I feel sorry for all the good members who are unaware of this going on.

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The very toxic election that's going on at the moment sums up today's mentality, both sides have a lot to answer. I did back the for change group but have come to the conclusion that it's probably better not to bother with it. The problems will never go away as big organisations forget what the core issues are all about, it's supposed to be a pleasant hobby that everyone can injoy without criticism. 

 

Simon

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On 24/08/2020 at 13:08, fail safe said:

 

I'm informed by a reliable source that it's been announced the Guild accounts have now been audited, but the secretary will not reveal the name of the auditor or give any other information. There has to be an extraordinary reason not to do this. 

 

 

Details announced on Tuesday by the Secretary - Burgess Hodgson, a large firm of Accountants based in Canterbury. Copied below from their website    https://www.burgesshodgson.co.uk/

 

Quote

 

 

Burgess Hodgson LLP is a Kent based accountancy firm with the skills and expertise to rival any other accountancy firm in the UK.

Our 20 Partners and in excess of 150 staff work from offices in Canterbury, Kent, for a portfolio of clients across the UK and beyond, and are dedicated to growth and are committed to providing the best possible service to our clients.

 

 

 

As reported on Aug 20th, the audit had been started but no date given for when the report will be available and we have no idea of the extent of the audit and what it will cover. 

 

Quote

The external audit is currently being conducted by the appointed audit company and a report is expected in the near future.

 

This is why the Reform Group has put forward a resolution for a more detailed review of the Guild finances.

 

Quote

 

We understand that the Management Committee has commissioned an external audit of the accounts for 2019- 20 following the submission of our original resolution in February 2020. We recommend that such an audit should:

a) Verify the opening and closing balances and reserves for the year 2019-20;

b) Verify the income and full costs attributable to Guild Events;

c) Report on the adequacy of financial recording, reporting and control systems.

 

 

In a response to this resolution, the Management Committee made the following response in the Annual Report sent to all members.

 

Quote

 

The appointment of an external auditor has been made by the Management Committee for the financial year 2019. The report following the audit together with the actions and recommendations to the Management Committee will be made available to all members.

An auditor is independent. We are not permitted to direct or stipulate what the auditor will review.

Lines a, b, and c are therefore not admissible.

 

 

As mentioned in the posting above 'there has to be an extraordinary reason not to do this' with the implication that there is more to be disclosed - but this will obviously be after the election at the end of this month. Even if successful, the Reform Group would still only be 4 out of 12 on the Committee - but at least it would be a start . . . . . . . 

 

Here I must declare an interest as I proposed David Rae for the position of Chairman.

 

Mike

 

 

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Wow! A quarter of a million not properly listed! If that's true, then the treasurer and the committee will,at some point have to prove what it was spent on. 

A receipt or receipts must exist, failing that the bank will know where it went. 

If Plod and the external auditor aren't interested, the HMRC will be.

A group if friends used to buy beat up old houses, do them up and resell them. All was well for several years until one of them got pinged by HMRC. They kept asking him to redo his tax returns. Eventually he was interviewed by them and all it was over a few pence interest he had on a personal account. He managed to trace it back to a bank holiday weekend when, because the company bank was 20 miles from his home, he'd put several thousand quid, in cash, into his local current account at the bank in his town. On the Tuesday he'd sent  cheque to the company bank.

The money had, over the week or so it had sat in his current account earned a very little interest, which he'd not declared. HMRC accepted it was human error and all was well.

The potential of a large sum having gone amiss will attract attention.

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Guest Jack Benson

At some stage, Companies House should be involved, the sum of £246,784 has been spent on 'Other costs' and no one is prepared to explain where the money has gone will be of interest to them and HMRC, if not the GoG membership.

Words such as embezzlement and negligence may not be welcome or appropriate but they may allegedly have some relevance.

It just takes one letter to start the process and this link might help.

 

Stay Safe and Tuck in your Vest

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We are told that a more detailed breakdown of expenditure will be available at some future time - and to be fair has been provided in previous years providing information (to Feb 2019) such as a loss of £37,201 for Guildex 2018 and Board costs of £9324 (with more than half of that sum spent on Hotels and Meals). Regardless of the outcome of the election, there will be a new Treasurer next week as that is one of four contested positions.

 

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1 hour ago, Jack Benson said:

At some stage, Companies House should be involved, the sum of £246,784 has been spent on 'Other costs' and no one is prepared to explain where the money has gone will be of interest to them and HMRC, if not the GoG membership.

Words such as embezzlement and negligence may not be welcome or appropriate but they may allegedly have some relevance.

It just takes one letter to start the process and this link might help.

 

Stay Safe and Tuck in your Vest

 

GOG is not of a size (i.e. annual turnover) where detailed accounts need to be presented to Companies House.

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Guest Jack Benson
49 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

GOG is not of a size (i.e. annual turnover) where detailed accounts need to be presented to Companies House.

Mr Pestell,

 

Just looking on my post where I suggested that detailed accounts should be presented - hold on, I didn't.

 

So please, don't misquote me.

 

Stay Safe and Tuck in your Vest

 

Thank you

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1 hour ago, Jack Benson said:

Mr Pestell,

 

Just looking on my post where I suggested that detailed accounts should be presented - hold on, I didn't.

 

So please, don't misquote me.

 

Stay Safe and Tuck in your Vest

 

Thank you

 

No, you didn't. But without detailed accounts, there is nothing there to be of interest to Companies House.

 

PS: I have not worn a vest since I was 13, fifty years ago.

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On 13/07/2020 at 14:58, Gilbert said:

I've been a member for a number of years and through the Guild have benefitted from the help of a number of individuals - something that should not be overlooked in the current debate as none of this would have happened otherwise:

  • I can only solder brass because of the large amount of time given freely by a gentleman called Pete - I forget his surname - who organised a 1/2 day clinic at Telford some years ago.
  • the late Bob Alderman - who was chair of the Technical Committee of the Gauge O Guild at the time - gave me all sorts of help when I was starting.
  • Fred Lewis who is a local GOG rep and organises the NEWGOG show has been a constant source of support and "encouragement".

Just my thoughts...

The gents name is Peter Trigwell.

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On 20/07/2020 at 21:22, Barry O said:

No we were not asked to cut expenses.. we tried to balance books. The exhibition didn't cover the expenses of the various high ups in the Guild and (Spouses) and was charged into the Guild standard "misc. expense" (I believe)  The people involved thought as a Company - if they were say.. a Vice President then they expected to receive the expenses etc that they thought a "Vice President" in a Company should have. and.. until the night we cleared up at Telford and then drove home..was the first the events knew about the 3 course meal and drinks going on in the Holiday Inn.  I left when the next year we ended up in the do.. having again built the show, manned it and then dismantled it. A room full of people who didn't help being fed and watered was the end..

 

I left as I did not like to see some people doing nothing and freeloading on the Guild. We couldn't cut their expenses.. but we made the Guild Profits on all of the Shows.. which seems not to have been the case since then..

 

Baz

What year was this supposed to have happened?.

Bob

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6 hours ago, GeoffAlan said:

Wow! A quarter of a million not properly listed! If that's true, then the treasurer and the committee will, at some point have to prove what it was spent on. 

A receipt or receipts must exist, failing that the bank will know where it went. 

If Plod and the external auditor aren't interested, the HMRC will be.

The potential of a large sum having gone amiss will attract attention.

 

5 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

At some stage, Companies House should be involved, the sum of £246,784 has been spent on 'Other costs' and no one is prepared to explain where the money has gone will be of interest to them and HMRC, if not the GoG membership.

 . . . . . embezzlement and negligence . . . . . 

 

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

GOG is not of a size (i.e. annual turnover) where detailed accounts need to be presented to Companies House.

 

To clarify my previous posts - there are no suggestions of any embezzlement or negligence and as Joseph has mentioned the accounts presented to the membership meet all the requirements of Company Law.  As I mentioned above, a detailed breakdown of expenditure has been published in previous years and of course the figures must have been available to enable the Treasurer to present the final accounts.

 

What is needed is the same information for the financial year that ended February 2020. This would include Guildex 2019 as there were unsubstantiated rumours at that time that the loss incurred was greater than that seen in 2018. This resulted in the change of date for 2020 to save £15,000 on the venue hire and the start of a search for an alternative location.

 

Obviously CV19 put a stop to the 2020 show and the Guild negotiated with the Telford Exhibition Centre to get deposits refunded and so as far as I am aware the only costs for 2020 were for printing exhibition flyers and other advance publicity. Guildex will be held in September 2021 in the Bingley Hall at Stafford Showground - note this not the same building as the February Stafford exhibition.

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2 hours ago, Bob Lawrence said:

What year was this supposed to have happened?.

Bob

20 years ago ish..when the Events Committee resigned and an unsigned letter was sent out to all members with a view of the committees view of the events. It did happen..ask Ian Kirk for a clear view of what went on from an unbiased view. It is not dreamt up and some people are still around in the hierarchy of the Guild

 

Baz

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I have just checked the letter from the Guild Management.it was sent out in January 2001.

 

If you were involved at the time you would probably know when it happened..but not necessarily  what happened.

 

Baz

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