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sir douglas

Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild

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9 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

It’s possible to tag @Horsetan still.

Yes but he can't get messages on RMWeb

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3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

For traders, a one-day show is probably preferable so long as the attendance figures are not too badly impacted.

 

It is layout owners who tend to be reluctant to go through all the effort of transporting and assembling a layout for just one day.

Fair point, actually. :yes:

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To be fair to the Guild, it was set up to ensure that the trade survived and supplied the hobby and all their shows have always been mainly trade with a few layouts.  Guildex had over 100 traders in 2019.

 

I usually go more for the trade and the socialising with friends rather than the layouts.

 

Jamie

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I joined for a year at Telford when I first got into 7mm. I say for a year but my membership expired in March (?) the following year. This was really not made clear when joining, they just pushed the exhibition entry discount. 

 

I was in my early 40s when I went to the first show and full of questions having moved up from 4mm. Whilst most of the traders were happy to help, I felt largely invisible to G0G officials. Not at all welcoming to a newcomer.

 

Having joined, I got copies of the magazine and access to the website. What a disappointment. Both very kit-built express loco centric, with little in the way of track or scenics. Seemed to be a lot of wallet waving and looking down noses at lesser modellers. I found much better advice and modelling on here and WT.

 

Was also concerned when visiting a later show to hear G0G officials discussing what I can only summarise as a dodgy approach to tax matters. I understand this later blew up on the Guild forum. The closed nature of Guild finances and bickering about expenses hardly promotes confidence.

 

Then there's how the Guild managed the Kettering show the year of the bad snow. A total lack of understanding that many going were not G0G members and would also be interested in if the show was on or not and which traders had cancelled. Info was only initially available once a public spirited member repeated forum updated on here. I still remember one G0G member stating on here that us "freeloaders" (non members) should join if we wanted info. Hardly freeloading if you pay a premium to get into a show. 

 

The show was not cancelled despite the poor weather with the feeling being that this was to avoid cancellation fees but the poor traders had very low foot falls. Really felt for the traders at that event.

 

All in all, other than organising the trade shows, I really don't see what purpose the G0G serves these days. It offers no products, other forums cover modelling and prototype advice, and IMO the Old Guard give the impression that they are in it for their own glory \ benefit rather than the promotion of the guage(s). 

 

I wish the G0G well, but with the experiences so far and the on-going washing dirty laundry in public, in addition to a lack of perceived member benefits, I have no intention of rejoining.

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4 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

Horsetan's profile says he hasn't logged in since October 11, 2018.

 

 

yes he is banned...

 

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nowt to do with the G0G.. and I didn't know he was anything but a S4 modeller.

 

Ask an Admin...

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24 minutes ago, 2ManySpams said:

I joined for a year at Telford when I first got into 7mm. I say for a year but my membership expired in March (?) the following year. This was really not made clear when joining, they just pushed the exhibition entry discount. 

My experience exactly as well - except that the fact my membership was only effectively valid for the next six months wasn't explained at all. Wasn't impressed, and will never sign up again. The rest of your post is spot on; beyond organising their shows, the Guild offers nothing to the scale, these days.

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1 hour ago, Lantavian said:

Feel free to message me privately with details of the Horsetan scandal, please.

 

 

 

Ivan (Horsetan) can be contacted on the LNER forum where he is still active.

 

There was no scandal 

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4 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

There was no scandal 

 

No scandal, I took personal offence to some of his comments and behaviour with respect to me made elsewhere.

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3 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

No scandal, I took offence to some of his comments and behaviour with respect to me personally elsewhere.

 

I better watch what I say .......:D

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2 hours ago, Lantavian said:

Feel free to message me privately with details of the Horsetan scandal, please.

 

 

I am now very sorry that I raised the matter. It was meant as a rhetorical and jocular remark.

 

I do miss him though, not least for our common interest in Citroens.

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I can report that he was alive and well last year when I handed over a set of old style French number plates for his Citroen at Ealing Broadway station.

 

Jamie

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Posted (edited)

going back to the op question and thoughts about the GOG. I used to be a member until last year and since the question has been asked here's the truth. There have been so many arguments on their forum about modernising over the past few years its sickening. Not because of the reforming people who want to do something, but because of the complete lack of understanding of the need for modernisation and openness by the management and its out of date supporters who seem in complete denial and can not let go of old ways and their annual shindig at Guildex. The whole management thing is jobs for the boys. I just could not carry on being a member of a club that is so introspective and arrogant. It actually stopped me from making models rather than helped me and i got quite depressed. This thread is the first time I've talked about it publicly. Modelling should be fun, like i see on here. The GOG is not fun. I'll stick with MIOG who are relaxed normal guys.

Edited by fail safe
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On 28/07/2020 at 20:05, Natalie said:

Hi Colin

 

Being the sub editor and proof reader of UPDate, I was in the position of getting an early preview of your article. I found nothing intrinsically wrong with at all and it read very nicely indeed. Such was that I needed to do very little alteration/corrections and they were of a time sensitive nature caused by the blasted virus cancelling your forthcoming appearances, so it seemed pointless to leave them in. It was a very interesting read on the logistics and otherwise of taking a layout to a show and all that it entailed. I echo Kelly's sentiments in thanking you for submitting something so quickly that was 'a bit different' subject wise and also well written. Please feel free to submit more material, especially if you model in 7mm scale as we as a magazine are very much under represented in that size.

 

Thanks again for your article and I hope that we presented it to your liking. (The change of title/ adding of a subtitle was me so feel free to blame Kelly (D827 here).

 

 


Thanks Natalie,  I’ve already submitted a second (small) article and I’ll try and send something in 7mm when I can.

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5 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I better watch what I say .......:D

 

Fear not Crispy....you're one of the good guys.  I don't care what they say.....:jester:

 

 

 

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at the last renewal i was see-sawing on the fence wether to do it or not, with everything going in the last year or 2 on the forum. i decided to give it a go for one more year to see if things improve and hopefully now it will.

 

the only thing exlusive to the guild that i would not have otherwise are some useful articals saved from past gazettes, the other is the forum but im not that bothered about the it because its quieter and only O gauge, where as on here there are many more posts per day and a wide variety of scales and gauges to get ideas from. you dont need to be a member to go to the shows or buy from the traders, at the shows the only thing a non member can't do is sell on the Bring & buy. there isnt much of an incentive to join

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I was much the same as "sir douglas" back in March,but felt that with 4 candidates likely to stand for election from within the reform group, I too would give it another year. With the recent e-mail issue concerning Derek Mundy who is a member of the MC or a Director of the GOG trying to influence voting. I fear my renewal in 2021 will not be forthcoming. I see little long term future for the Guild when the vast majority of the membership are in my age group (Over 70) and very few young modeller's wanting to join an organisation firmly entrenched in the last century.Modern Image of course means from 1923 onwards and very little  real Modern Image to interest the vast majority of Younger Modellers that the guild so desperately needs for the future.

Just my opinion of course, but I fear I am not in a small minority of existing members.

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3 hours ago, CUTLER2579 said:

I see little long term future for the Guild when the vast majority of the membership are in my age group (Over 70) and very few young modeller's wanting to join an organisation firmly entrenched in the last century.

I find that aspect quite intriguing, and maybe revealing of the core problem. Someone mentioned earlier about problems in the Guild 20-odd years ago. If the average age of 'the Committee' was 70+ back then, then simply by the fact of our mortality, not too many from the committee of 2000 will be around today? They have been replaced by people who were in their 50s then, yet the same entrenched 'Steam Only Closed Shop' attitude seems to remain? Were the present committee members taught it by their predecessors, or is the current 70+ generation still entrenched in that mindset, which will only change when they in turn, shuffle off this mortal coil, to be replaced by a committee around my age, who grew up with BR Blue, spent our formative years detailing 4mm diesels (& heaven knows 1980s 4mm diesels needed detailing!!) and now are not averse to the current boom in 7mm R-T-R..?? :dontknow:

 

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some of the committee and one standing for a post were around 20 odd years ago.. others were not but..once involved in something which is above any form of check by the members it is not difficult if you huts follow teh lead of others.

 

Baz

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Hi,

 

Has anyone mentioned the influence of the coarse scale, tinplate collectors, three-rail enthusiasts, etc. within the GoG? I recall a rather odd and disturbing diatribe printed in both the gazette and the forum, authored by the promoter of one of the well known coarse scale companies which claimed that coarse scale O gauge was now the pre-eminent force within the GoG community and dismissed finescale as an temporary aberration. The article, was met with a great deal of warm appreciation within the GoG, together with a committee member endorsing the comment.
 

Cheers and Stay Safe

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2 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

coarse scale O gauge was now the pre-eminent force within the GoG community

"Within the GoG community" being the key phrase, if it's true at all..?

Outside in the real world, things could be slightly different? :scratchhead:

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11 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

"Within the GoG community" being the key phrase, if it's true at all..?

Outside in the real world, things could be slightly different? :scratchhead:

 

I thought earlier in this thread there were comments from coarse-scale 0-gaugers suggesting that G0G is less relevant for them and HRCA et al are more useful, which seems to contradict this.

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Posted (edited)
On 30/07/2020 at 22:01, sir douglas said:

at the last renewal i was see-sawing on the fence wether to do it or not, with everything going in the last year or 2 on the forum. i decided to give it a go for one more year to see if things improve and hopefully now it will.

 

the only thing exlusive to the guild that i would not have otherwise are some useful articals saved from past gazettes, the other is the forum but im not that bothered about the it because its quieter and only O gauge, where as on here there are many more posts per day and a wide variety of scales and gauges to get ideas from. you dont need to be a member to go to the shows or buy from the traders, at the shows the only thing a non member can't do is sell on the Bring & buy. there isnt much of an incentive to join

 

12 hours ago, CUTLER2579 said:

I was much the same as "sir douglas" back in March,but felt that with 4 candidates likely to stand for election from within the reform group, I too would give it another year.

 

...

 

I see little long term future for the Guild when the vast majority of the membership are in my age group (Over 70) and very few young modeller's wanting to join an organisation firmly entrenched in the last century.Modern Image of course means from 1923 onwards and very little  real Modern Image to interest the vast majority of Younger Modellers that the guild so desperately needs for the future.

Just my opinion of course, but I fear I am not in a small minority of existing members.

 

8 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I find that aspect quite intriguing, and maybe revealing of the core problem. Someone mentioned earlier about problems in the Guild 20-odd years ago. If the average age of 'the Committee' was 70+ back then, then simply by the fact of our mortality, not too many from the committee of 2000 will be around today? They have been replaced by people who were in their 50s then, yet the same entrenched 'Steam Only Closed Shop' attitude seems to remain? Were the present committee members taught it by their predecessors, or is the current 70+ generation still entrenched in that mindset, which will only change when they in turn, shuffle off this mortal coil, to be replaced by a committee around my age, who grew up with BR Blue, spent our formative years detailing 4mm diesels (& heaven knows 1980s 4mm diesels needed detailing!!) and now are not averse to the current boom in 7mm R-T-R..?? :dontknow:

 

 

At that rate, I very much doubt if I'd ever make it onto the Committee (not that I could imagine too many people wanting me to in the first place, you understand).

 

Before anybody gets the wrong idea, I'm definitely not trying to suggest that I should find my way there - let's face it, I've never been a member, so I wouldn't expect to be in contention any time soon.

 

However, even if I were to join tomorrow (which isn't about to happen), I wouldn't even be allowed to be considered unless I'd continuously been a member for at least the previous decade - by which time I'd be 65. In other words, if I ever were to get into a position from which it were possible to change anything, I would hardly be representative of the new, fresh, young, blood which could possibly be of any use with any potential modernisation.

 

Please note that I'm not offering my services - far from it, in fact.

 

I do, however, see the "ten year rule" as one way in which some societies might effectively block any potential modernisation which could otherwise be wrought by a significant number of reform-minded newer members - members who could easily be driven out / frozen out in the time it would take for them to become eligible to reach positions of influence.

 

Is this an attack on any, or all, of the current committee? Am I saying that any / all of them are in any way unfit for office? Am I even suggesting that any / all of these people might not have earned their places on the committee? No - of course not. As an outsider - a non member - I actually know nothing about any of these people. I also actively seek to see people in as positive a light as possible.

 

In fact, I am merely pointing out that the potential exists for certain of the current rules to be abused if any people in authority were determined to block change.

 

I am also pointing out that rules like this might make me reluctant to join any club which would happily have me as a paying member, on the "perfectly reasonable" condition that I didn't wish my voice to be heard. Sorry old chaps - "close but no cigar". Well, in my case, definitely no cigar - and no cigarettes, rolling tobacco, or anything else of that ilk, as I've been militantly anti-smoking since I was old enough to walk.

 

This does not mean that, if I were to join the Guild (or whatever it might be called then) at some later date, I would instantly attempt to weasel my way into some position of influence - not a chance. I do, however wonder if ten years might be slightly excessive.

 

 

Another rule that has, on a number of occasions, put me off joining has been the one about membership "years" finishing on the same date for everyone. What can possibly be so scary about allowing everyone who's paid the same membership dues the same length of membership year - 12 months? Nothing to stop you taking this to the end of the month, if you want. However, if I paid a full year's dues at Guildex - only to find out at a later date that I was only getting 6 months' membership - I'd be demanding satisfactory answers about what had happened to the rest of the year. In other words, I'd feel swindled - and I don't think I'd stay quiet about this, either.

 

 

I am also extremely concerned by suggestions that somebody might have been doing (or omitting to do) anything with the intention of influencing members' voting. If there is any truth at all in this, I would regard it as a very serious charge. Regardless of the relative merits of the candidates standing for election, I would hope that robust, timely, steps would be taken to stamp out any behaviour of this nature.

 

Somehow, I also suspect that all candidates would wish to distance themselves from anything like this - since not doing so could easily bring them into disrepute. I'm sure they are all reputable, civilised, people - willing to engage with and listen to all Guild members. I'm also sure that all Guild members would expect nothing less from any of these people.

 

Okay - that's the rant stuff out of the way.

 

 

Now, I come to my experiences - and perception - of the Guild and its shows.

 

When it comes to Guild (and Guild connected) shows, I've only been able to get to the shows at the Lysaght Institute, in Newport. My experiences of these have been very positive - so much so that, on a number of occasions, I've wanted to get to the events at Bristol (UWIST) and especially Telford. Unfortunately, my caring commitments and lack of effective public transport have prevented me from getting to these events.

 

I don't have access to a car and - until last December - I was a carer for both my parents. Before Parkinsonism (which later morphed into full-blown Dementia) "took away" my late father, he'd made similar observations about words like "Guild" and "Gazette" to posters earlier in this thread. Of course, one difference was that he was not a railway modeller. (It also goes without saying that I miss Gwyn - and will for some time to come - but I digress.)

 

Anyway, returning to my interactions with the Guild etc. I've actually known (and liked) a number of Guild members, for a number of years. I've enjoyed the chance to catch up with these people at the Newport show. I've also enjoyed seeing a number of layouts at this show (a number of these layouts have actually been rather good). I've also welcomed the chance to obtain essential supplies at these shows (although I mainly model in OO and sometimes HO, I'm also building a bit of stuff in O) - and spare "back" copies of the Gazette have also given me some rather useful ideas.

 

I've been made welcome at these shows - and also at the Guild stands at other shows where the Guild has had a presence.

 

In other words, I'm not about to take cheap shots at Guild events or people involved with running or promoting the Guild.

 

 

As for what else the Guild might have to offer, I really don't have a clue. I'd like it if the Guild (and other gauge / interest societies) were to make pitches in mainstream model railway magazines - setting out (in a positive way) exactly what they have to offer potentially sympathetic outsiders like me - and how this might differ from what's already available - through websites like RMweb, Model RailForum and Western Thunder.

 

Somehow, I suspect that a number of Guild members might also appreciate it if all candidates seeking election / re-election to Committee posts could set out their stalls somewhere all members will see them - again in a positive, constructive, way - and make it clear that they're all approachable and willing to be approached by all Guild members, whatever their personal preference in traction and era.

 

 

As I've already commented, I'm not a member - but I'm not against the idea of becoming one at some point in the future. I also don't know what might - or might not - have happened in recent years. I don't know any of this stuff - just like I don't personally know any of the people currently asking Guild members to lend them their votes.

 

However, I can be certain that any change within the Guild is likely to be a process - not an event - and it's likely to require everyone who is elected to the Committee keeping Guild members "on board" and "on side". If anyone is alienated in this process, I could imagine any self-respecting Committee members feeling that they've somehow fallen short - and I don't wish this to happen.

 

Where things have gone wrong, I'm sure no Guild members would want this brushed under the carpet - and neither would I. I suspect that some element of Glasnost (or openness) is probably on the cards - along with Perestroika (or rebuilding / restructuring) - and, hopefully, a definite willingness to work together and make progress together.

 

Time will tell what happens - but I don't want everything to end in recriminations and backstabbing.

 

 

Huw.

Edited by Huw Griffiths
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6 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

Another rule that has, on a number of occasions, put me off joining has been the one about membership "years" finishing on the same date for everyone.

 

Does G0G do this (like some other societies) purely to reduce the amount of admin needed? Although I’m sure it would be possible to reduce the cost for members who will only get a few months before they have to renew.

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