Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild

[Barry O]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

I haven't seen the numbers or even know if they have been published but was it close?

 

It is no good arguing that it is not democratic because of the low turnout. That is democracy at work. Maybe many are not keen on the present board but don't like a hostile coup either, so chose not to vote rather than go vote for something they are not a fan of.

 

Hopefully the newly elected board will see this as an opportunity to change things for the better, having had a bit of a "wake up" call. It seems that the biggest financial problem, Telford, has been addressed. Perhaps a bit more information about how subs are spent will go a long way to calming things down.

 

Even if they didn't get elected, I hope the reform group's efforts to bring about change achieve something positive.

 

I will be renewing my subs next year. The Guild may not be perfect but it is, in the words of a late friend of mine, "Better than the one we haven't got".

 

 

they didn't change in 1999, 2000 or 2001 so I doubt they will change...

[neal cooper]

Well it was a good go, and Chris Basten came within 5 votes of winning. A good solid minimum of around 350 votes for change. Congratulations to all the candidates for putting their heads above the parapet. Disappointing though that so many see those who have presided for nearly 30 years around the Management  Committee and overseen the stagnation and financial losses as the way forward. I think that alone decides me I’m out and joining any new putative 7mm Scale group. At least someone tried to save the husk of GOG for future modellers but it seems un-saveable now that future votes will be only for 2 Management  Committee members per year out of 12. I Was persuaded to stay this year after nearly 30 years of membership to try and help change the direction but I won’t give them my money again to keep that shambles stumbling along. Sad. 

[chris p bacon]

34 minutes ago, neal cooper said:

but it seems un-saveable now that future votes will be only for 2 Management  Committee members per year out of 12.

 

That is a very low percentage, I thought that the minimum should be 25-30% for re-election each year so that a change can happen over 4 years maximum.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

they didn't change in 1999, 2000 or 2001 so I doubt they will change...

 

I am always an optimist! Hopefully a few new faces and a bit of a scare in the closeness of the vote might just kick start something.

 

No club or society is perfect. There will always be people who think things should be done differently and there will be others who think things are OK as they are. Many people joined the Guild not knowing any different and perhaps find it a cosy if rather old fashioned place.

 

There is actually something very comforting about that in this modern age.

 

I would guess, from my experiences looking at the sorts of people who attend the Guild events, that a dynamic, more digital, modern technology and modern railway based Guild would be something that is just to far outside of their comfort zone.

 

If people want to join a shared interest O gauge group, it seems that they have the Guild, the Scaleseven group or MOIG to choose from and not much else.

 

Perhaps there is room for a more modern looking group to rise up and show the Guild just how things should be done. There are clearly people with the skills to run it and probably enough disgruntled Guild members to kick it off with a decent membership. If all the people who voted for the reform group join up, it would be a cracking good start and better numbers than many groups start with.

 

When people have an alternative, that is when market forces and choice really come into play.     

[Simond]

40 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

When people have an alternative, that is when market forces and choice really come into play.   

I resigned last year, as I had stated I would if the committee ever repeated the absurd and draconian ban on a member expressing themselves on the forum in a manner that did not cross the bounds of common decency.  They did repeat it, to the same person.  I resigned on a point of principle.  They can do what they like, but not in my name (or with my £10 guarantee).

 

The alternatives are simple.  MRJ is a much better magazine than the Gazette, WT & RMWeb are perfectly good forums, though I do miss some excellent contributors on the Guild forum.  ALSRM has lower subs, and gets discounts from major suppliers, such as Slaters.  

The Guild needs members far more than potential members need the Guild.

 

I wish the new committee well, I hope they can change things for the better.  
 

In so doing, they might like to consider rescinding the EGM changes 18 months back, to improve transparency, and banning any individual serving more than x years on the committee in any role or combination of roles.
 

atb

Simon

 

 

[MarcD]

As Simon has pointed out there is already an alternative group. The Association of larger scale railway modellers. A very broad church from my dealings with them. 

Marc

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 

That is a very low percentage, I thought that the minimum should be 25-30% for re-election each year so that a change can happen over 4 years maximum.

 

Purely based on societies I have been in, I am quite surprised at how long the G0G terms are, as well as at the fact that they don’t all become due for re-election at the same time.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Simond said:

I resigned last year, as I had stated I would if the committee ever repeated the absurd and draconian ban on a member expressing themselves on the forum in a manner that did not cross the bounds of common decency.  They did repeat it, to the same person.  I resigned on a point of principle.  They can do what they like, but not in my name (or with my £10 guarantee).

 

The alternatives are simple.  MRJ is a much better magazine than the Gazette, WT & RMWeb are perfectly good forums, though I do miss some excellent contributors on the Guild forum.  ALSRM has lower subs, and gets discounts from major suppliers, such as Slaters.  

The Guild needs members far more than potential members need the Guild.

 

I wish the new committee well, I hope they can change things for the better.  
 

In so doing, they might like to consider rescinding the EGM changes 18 months back, to improve transparency, and banning any individual serving more than x years on the committee in any role or combination of roles.
 

atb

Simon

 

 

 

Is there another organisation, magazine or forum that is specifically for 7mm modelling? The ones you mention are all multiscale/gauge.

 

If not, what is wrong with starting one?

 

It has to be easier than gradually wearing down the Guild and then changing it into something else.

 

 

[LBRJ]

10 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Is there another organisation, magazine or forum that is specifically for 7mm modelling? The ones you mention are all multiscale/gauge.

 

If not, what is wrong with starting one?

 

It has to be easier than gradually wearing down the Guild and then changing it into something else.

 

 

 

That is a good idea.

Easy for me to say that I suppose, but I would join if it was something like the Scalefour Society or the 2FS Association who actively promote their choices and make you want to be part of it.

 

 Rather than my impression over the years of the GOG who would like your dollars if not your actual input.

[F-UnitMad]

8 hours ago, Simond said:

The Guild needs members far more than potential members need the Guild

A concise summing up of the whole situation, & almost getting back to the point of the OP - "what would encourage people to join the Guild?".

Precious little, it would seem, as no really good ideas have been forthcoming. This thread would most likely put people off IMO, & it's also clear that there are many ex-members who wouldn't rejoin ever again even if the Guild gave away a free XYZ locomotive as an incentive....

[Joseph_Pestell]

11 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Nonsense! If the reform group had won in such a low turnout, the people crying "foul" would have been very happy to accept the result.

 

If you have a simple "most votes wins" system, then you cannot say a result is undemocratic because not enough people voted.

 

 

 

My point was about democracies and turnout in general, not the GOG. When apathy reigns, the "government" has little imperative to improve its performance.

[Giles]

9 hours ago, Simond said:

I resigned last year, as I had stated I would if the committee ever repeated the absurd and draconian ban on a member expressing themselves on the forum in a manner that did not cross the bounds of common decency.  They did repeat it, to the same person.  I resigned on a point of principle.  They can do what they like, but not in my name (or with my £10 guarantee).

 

The alternatives are simple.  MRJ is a much better magazine than the Gazette, WT & RMWeb are perfectly good forums, though I do miss some excellent contributors on the Guild forum.  ALSRM has lower subs, and gets discounts from major suppliers, such as Slaters.  

The Guild needs members far more than potential members need the Guild.

 

I wish the new committee well, I hope they can change things for the better.  
 

In so doing, they might like to consider rescinding the EGM changes 18 months back, to improve transparency, and banning any individual serving more than x years on the committee in any role or combination of roles.
 

atb

Simon

 

 

 

 

I too resigned for the same reasons...., I wholeheartedly agree with the all above....

[Simond]

7 hours ago, t-b-g said:

If not, what is wrong with starting one?

Starting a new 0 gauge group is entirely possible, but I’d suggest entirely pointless.  It’ll be difficult to make ends meet because uptake of membership will be slow because there isn’t really an unfilled need, and advertisers won’t bother, because they don’t get much bang for their buck.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with starting one, but I guess my question would be “what for, why does anyone need a single-scale club or magazine?” particularly for what has become a relatively mainstream scale & gauge.  If you’re modelling the Listowell & Ballybunion, you might well want to find the handful of like-minded souls to solve specific problems, and lobby manufacturers, but 0 gauge is not like that any more.  Jack Ray & the other founding fathers did a such a damn good job, it’s no longer necessary.

 

Good modelling is good modelling irrespective of scale & gauge (and era) and there’s usually something to learn.  The incessant ads for 00 in the mainstream press undoubtedly fills a market need, but I find it boring so I don’t buy the mainstream press.  If anything exciting is announced, someone will mention it on here, and I can Google the rest.

 

atb

Simon

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Is there another organisation, magazine or forum that is specifically for 7mm modelling?

 

 

John Emerson's on line Magazine 'Lineside Look' is dedicated to 7mm scale modelling.

Scale 7 Group (and their stores also sell components for the slightly more narrow minded.)

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[Simond]

Good point.  S7.  Somewhat more specialist than 0 gauge.  Needs some kind of forum to advertise their wares and to connect those who model in that scale.  Much more relevant than my Listowell example!

 

atb

Simon

[fail safe]

With this result I certainly won't be re joining. I will not give them another chance. They won't change because all the ideas for the future came from reformers and people who left anyway! 

 

The guild will just slowly revert to its arrogant destiny as members get older and go to the big model railway club in the sky.

 

As others say, a new 7mm scale society is a bit pointless in this day and age because many people get their fix on a forum like this or Facebook. And for a modern railway fix there is already MIOG.

 

Roll on Heaton Lodge Junction, which is the best thing in 7mm scale since sliced bread, and not a jot to do with the Guild.

 

 

[burgundy]

9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Is there another organisation, magazine or forum that is specifically for 7mm modelling? The ones you mention are all multiscale/gauge.

 

If not, what is wrong with starting one?

 

It has to be easier than gradually wearing down the Guild and then changing it into something else.

 

 

Why do you have to have an actual organisation? Why not start an online magazine which features 7mm scale modelling?

Best wishes 

Eric 

[MarcD]

They only thing the GOG do for me is organized shows and a little bit of free advertising when we put out new products. 

I think I'm going throw my lot in with ALSRM as manufacturer and trader at least I get priority booking for the show. 

I will continue to use their shows but that is it. 

Marc

 

[t-b-g]

It seems that the people who don't like what is happening at the Guild have very different views.

 

The Reform Group wanting to take it over clearly believe that the 7mm world needs such a modern and forward thinking organisation.

 

My comments about starting a new group being easier than changing the old one are mainly for them.

 

Anything I say about such things need not apply to those who don't feel that O Gauge needs a formal group at all.

 

No doubt recent events will lead to people leaving. If those people decide to either join ALSRM that is fine. I just thought that if there are hundreds of like minded people who want to be in an group but not the Guild, then there is an opportunity for them to band together if they want to.

 

If they just want to be fly solo and don't want or need to be part of a group, that is fine too.

 

I was not telling people what they should do, simply pointing out the opportunity for something they could do if they felt that way inclined.

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Scale 7 Group (and their stores also sell components for the slightly more narrow minded.)

 

Slightly more broad minded, surely?

[neal cooper]

It’s interesting that so many still think in terms of a formal organisation. If I miss anything when my Guild membership lapses it will be the forum contributions now that the Executor and Trustee service has ended.
 

This can be quite easily set up as a 7mm specific discussion and help group. (Threads on a forum are searchable and become a database of help in the future where Facebook posts are ephemeral and quickly disappear and are hard to find.) I’m thinking of something like the N Gauge Forum, run by a handful of people who ask for donations to cover the running costs.
 

It is unconnected to the N Gauge Society who have no forum of their own but instead have an excellent magazine and shop selling commissioned models and kits including some of those from former manufacturers that have since folded.  The forum works and is the go to site for N gauge modellers seeking help in my experience. 

 

I see a future in a specific forum along these lines, free of membership numbers and ‘it’s not steam’ comments where new to 7mm modellers can find advice and encouragement. Better still, no membership fee hikes to cover largesse and losses.

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, fail safe said:

With this result I certainly won't be re joining. I will not give them another chance. They won't change because all the ideas for the future came from reformers and people who left anyway! 

 

The guild will just slowly revert to its arrogant destiny as members get older and go to the big model railway club in the sky.

 

As others say, a new 7mm scale society is a bit pointless in this day and age because many people get their fix on a forum like this or Facebook. And for a modern railway fix there is already MIOG.

 

Roll on Heaton Lodge Junction, which is the best thing in 7mm scale since sliced bread, and not a jot to do with the Guild.

 

 

 

Well the new Committee have said things will change, so I will give them the chance to do just that.

 

There are many people, myself included, who don't like our entire social interaction to be online. I really enjoy the Guild shows. I have visited a few home based layouts due to contacts made through the Guild or the Area Groups and I like the Magazine.

 

Heaton Lodge Junction is an example of superb modelling and great ambition. I have yet to decide how effective it will be on the operational side. I have always preferred layouts with complex and intricate operation rather than watching the trains go by.

 

I this case, the modelling is so good that it might win me over!  

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 due to contacts made through the Guild or the Area Groups 

 

 

I was surprised to find that you can be a member of an area group without being a member of the G0G.

 

The AGs seem to be separate entities with only a loose affiliation to the Guild.

[t-b-g]

15 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I was surprised to find that you can be a member of an area group without being a member of the G0G.

 

The AGs seem to be separate entities with only a loose affiliation to the Guild.

 

I hadn't realised that either!

 

Perhaps that may be a way forward for those who like the social side of the 7mm scene but don't want to be in the Guild.

[fail safe]

Yes the Guild has no area groups, anyone can join a group anywhere, they are all independent 0 gauge model railway groups, with 0 gauge acronyms. The Guild likes to hide behind this one because they do have so called area managers who have nothing to do with the groups officially.

 

So nobody has to belong to the Guild to go to Guild exhibitions, to join 0 gauge groups, or buy Guild publications. You may have to buy the Gazette a little late at a guild exhibition stand but its news value is next to nothing anyway as it is always way out of date.