Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I was surprised to find that you can be a member of an area group without being a member of the G0G.

 

The AGs seem to be separate entities with only a loose affiliation to the Guild.

 

Perhaps similarly, the 009 Society area group I am in is actually independent, even if in practice virtually all of us are also Society members. In the case of the 009 Society however, not all of the area groups are the same - some have closer links and must consist exclusively of Society members iirc. We don’t have any regional representatives in the way that G0G do though - that sounds like a slightly over-complicated way to organise it.

 

3 hours ago, neal cooper said:

It’s interesting that so many still think in terms of a formal organisation. If I miss anything when my Guild membership lapses it will be the forum contributions now that the Executor and Trustee service has ended.
 

This can be quite easily set up as a 7mm specific discussion and help group. (Threads on a forum are searchable and become a database of help in the future where Facebook posts are ephemeral and quickly disappear and are hard to find.) I’m thinking of something like the N Gauge Forum, run by a handful of people who ask for donations to cover the running costs.
 

It is unconnected to the N Gauge Society who have no forum of their own but instead have an excellent magazine and shop selling commissioned models and kits including some of those from former manufacturers that have since folded.  The forum works and is the go to site for N gauge modellers seeking help in my experience. 

 

I see a future in a specific forum along these lines, free of membership numbers and ‘it’s not steam’ comments where new to 7mm modellers can find advice and encouragement. Better still, no membership fee hikes to cover largesse and losses.

 

The problem with this is that a formal organisation is capable of doing a lot of things that can’t easily be done through a forum - specialist RTR, kits and parts for members, books and magazines (especially if available in print), secondhand sales operation, demo stands at exhibitions, conventions etc. (some of these could be done via a forum more easily than others). The 009 Society has at various times provided me with some of the forms of support mentioned (which I have found extremely helpful), and I understand that the S Scale Society, 3mm Society, 7mm NGA, EMGS etc. do likewise. So then it’s a question of whether a given scale/gauge needs that form of support from a society or whether it is sufficiently mainstream to just draw on the existing trade support. Although if there are still specific societies for 00 and N gauge then I’m not sure why the idea of one for 0 gauge should be seen as obsolete.

[ikcdab]

16 hours ago, Simond said:

In so doing, they might like to consider rescinding the EGM changes 18 months back, to improve transparency, and banning any individual serving more than x years on the committee in any role or combination of roles.

I've no idea what changes were made, but if done at an egm, then it can only be undone at another egm or AGM.

As I said upthread, I am a member of a heritage railway that needed to change its trustees. It took three attempts at egm and agm to do so. Three attempts to get enough votes. So start now for next year's agm or work to an egm if needed. For an egm you need 5% of the membership to demand one, then the committee must call it.

[fail safe]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

We don’t have any regional representatives in the way that G0G do though - that sounds like a slightly over-complicated way to organise it.

It is, and they have nothing to do with Gauge 0 groups which are in effect model railway clubs, sometimes within general model railway clubs anyway.  Area reps are just representing members nationwide and internationally in allotted areas and have to feed into directors at board level. Most people have never met one! Heavens knows why it has to be so complicated and pompous..

 

 

[N15class]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

The Reform Group wanting to take it over clearly believe that the 7mm world needs such a modern and forward thinking organisation.

But the RG didn't want to take over, they wanted to.bring it up to date. Change the thinking a bit to make it more relevant for today. Give the members more say, which the present board took away a few years ago. Four places out of 12 could not of been a take over. 

[t-b-g]

9 minutes ago, N15class said:

But the RG didn't want to take over, they wanted to.bring it up to date. Change the thinking a bit to make it more relevant for today. Give the members more say, which the present board took away a few years ago. Four places out of 12 could not of been a take over. 

 

I am sure you are right.

 

Having read some of the stuff on the Guild forum for the first time, I fully accept that I am but a novice and know next to nothing.

 

I have decided that dabbling in the political side of things isn't for me. The petty point scoring and sheer unpleasantness is just not my thing at all.

 

I will stick to building models and playing trains from now on.  

[neal cooper]

21 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

The problem with this is that a formal organisation is capable of doing a lot of things that can’t easily be done through a forum - specialist RTR, kits and parts for members, books and magazines (especially if available in print), secondhand sales operation, demo stands at exhibitions, conventions etc. (some of these could be done via a forum more easily than others). The 009 Society has at various times provided me with some of the forms of support mentioned (which I have found extremely helpful), and I understand that the S Scale Society, 3mm Society, 7mm NGA, EMGS etc. do likewise. So then it’s a question of whether a given scale/gauge needs that form of support from a society or whether it is sufficiently mainstream to just draw on the existing trade support. Although if there are still specific societies for 00 and N gauge then I’m not sure why the idea of one for 0 gauge should be seen as obsolete.

I agree, and get that from the N Gauge Society. But I don’t get that from the Gauge O Guild! Specialist RTR, kits and bits for members would be great but they are positively anti the whole idea of this. Stands at exhibitions to buy a tie or apron are not my thing personally and whilst the early Small Layouts publications were accurate if looking a little dated now, (the man who did these was a friend who died unrecognised for his work to the Guild, but he wasn’t ‘inner circle’ so what would you expect?) the latest version doesn’t render the track plans accurately of some of the layouts featured. It wasn’t free to members either unlike many good publications I received when I was a member of the 16mm Society. I’m confident I can save my Guild membership and lose very little if a decent new accessible and welcoming forum rises independently out of this debacle.

[009 micro modeller]

28 minutes ago, neal cooper said:

I agree, and get that from the N Gauge Society. But I don’t get that from the Gauge O Guild! Specialist RTR, kits and bits for members would be great but they are positively anti the whole idea of this. Stands at exhibitions to buy a tie or apron are not my thing personally and whilst the early Small Layouts publications were accurate if looking a little dated now, (the man who did these was a friend who died unrecognised for his work to the Guild, but he wasn’t ‘inner circle’ so what would you expect?) the latest version doesn’t render the track plans accurately of some of the layouts featured. It wasn’t free to members either unlike many good publications I received when I was a member of the 16mm Society. I’m confident I can save my Guild membership and lose very little if a decent new accessible and welcoming forum rises independently out of this debacle.

 

When I first joined the 009 Society I got given a wagon kit and a ‘handbook’ with advice for those starting out in 009 (how to build stuff, what manufacturers etc.). I believe a wagon kit is still given to new members (unless there have been any issues with sourcing or supplying these), though not so sure about the handbook, as it was due to be updated but I have a feeling the new one isn’t quite finished yet. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[fail safe]

Personally I think a new 7mm scale society is needed, to get away from the Guild baggage, concentrating on the more finer scale aspects of the scale. Unfortunately the 'S7 Group' have the best name available. Maybe as they have always been a 'group' as in 'S7 Group', they would concede to a society taking the name S7 Society?  S7S sounds good to me.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, fail safe said:

Unfortunately the 'S7 Group' have the best name available. Maybe as they have always been a 'group' as in 'S7 Group', they would concede to a society taking the name S7 Society?  S7S sounds good to me.

 

But S7 refers to a specific set of standards, by analogy with P4, and, as I understand it, that Group exists to support those who have chosen to work to those standards. Gauge seems to be nearly as fluid (though within tighter bounds) in 7 mm scale as in 4 mm scale. At least the scale is consistent, unlike 2 mm / N! How about a TT Gauge Society by analogy with the EM Gauge Society - TT being ambiguous enough to embrace 32 mm and 33 mm gauge! Only one problem there - TT already taken!

[fail safe]

I know what it refers to, but who cares about that, it's only an invention? They have the name.... Things can change, because I've seen people are now beginning to say 'I work to S7 standards but not the track and wheels'. So there's an opportunity there. 

[F-UnitMad]

15 minutes ago, fail safe said:

I know what it refers to, but who cares about that(?)

Quite possibly those who belong to the S7 Group? & who put a lot of effort (& money no doubt) into modelling to those standards, including for the track & wheels....  

[chris p bacon]

59 minutes ago, fail safe said:

Personally I think a new 7mm scale society

 

In which case 'The 7mm Society' might be sufficient and doesn't confuse any prospective members with an existing group/society.

 

You'll need 3 principal officers Chairman, Treasurer and Secretary and a constitution and rules, you might think you don't need them but they stop instances of the GOG happening as they are accountable to their members.

 

 

[fail safe]

But they may not object today. Some new members have recently been coming from the fine scale fraternity because the S7 shop sells products that suit all 7mm scale modellers such as Exactoscale products. It may well be an opportunity. As I said it needs less fussy thinking. Lateral thinking to broaden the appeal. The S7 group has never been able to get much above 200 members. Who knows what the future holds. In fact the main obstacle is that one two of those running the Guild now, and in the past, are S7 Group members!  It is here I have to admit to being a member of the S7 Group but I've never used 33mm gauge track standards. There are more out there like myself than is appreciated.

[chris p bacon]

15 minutes ago, fail safe said:

As I said it needs less fussy thinking

 

Can you elaborate on that?

 

[fail safe]

40 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Can you elaborate on that?

 

Not quite sure what you mean. Best not to isolate a selective part of what I'm suggesting!  It's not aimed at anyone personally.  I also said it needs lateral thinking to broaden the appeal, in the same post.  In other words we need to be a bit more creative in our thinking about a future for 7mm scale, especially as the world around us is changing rapidly.

[PMP]

Just now, fail safe said:

  I also said it needs lateral thinking to broaden the appeal, in the same post.  In other words we need to be a bit more creative in our thinking about a future for 7mm scale, especially as the world around us is changing rapidly.

 

I don’t understand why you need a society or formal group though. Your position sounds like mine but I work primarily in 4mm. I attend S4 shows and similar finescale events. I can buy from the society shop there or online/shows for independent traders. I don’t have a need for a society, though I appreciate the efforts they go to in supporting their section of the hobby.

[F-UnitMad]

28 minutes ago, fail safe said:

In other words we need to be a bit more creative in our thinking about a future for 7mm scale, especially as the world around us is changing rapidly.

7mm as a scale is doing fine at the moment, & seems to have a good future.

 It's the future of the Gay Joe Guild that's in doubt - especially as the world around us is changing rapidly....

 

 

[fail safe]

24 minutes ago, PMP said:

I don’t understand why you need a society or formal group though.

Yes I accept that point.  I guess I'm just speculating because there are so many Guild members and ex Guild members who are asking questions. Personally I will remain as I am as there is enough out there for us already. As for shows I like to go to all scale shows for inspiration not just 7mm scale ones.  Probably like most people.

[MarcD]

The problem with multi-gauge and multi-scale shows from a traders perspective is not enough people attend who would buy things from you stand to off set the costs. We do, in a normal year, Bristol o gauge, Kettering GOG, Reading ALSRM, Doncaster GoG, GuildEx and Guilford o Gauge reading shows and the only one that is a muilti-scale is ALSRM reading and that is touch and go some years. We have done other muilti-scale shows in the past and sold one wagon in two days. I don't think that I'm alone in this. On the whole specialist manufacturers go to their respective gauge/scale shows. I know that most 7mm NG manufacturers don't attend 7mm "Standard Gauge Shows". NG layouts do but but traders don't.

 

Marc

[SvenL]

Yesterday I wrote to the guild in order to leave. 

I am now officially not a G0G member anymore.  

This election has been a farse with directors instructing guild members how to vote. Slander against  the reform group Candidates and more. 

I could simply not stay anymore.  

I really liked being a member.  I felt the forum great. 

But I cannot accept the actions of the Guild leadership. 

Now I am hoping for something better to be created. 

Sven 

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

In which case 'The 7mm Society' might be sufficient and doesn't confuse any prospective members with an existing group/society.

 

There may be a possibility of confusion with the 7mm NGA.

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, fail safe said:

‘I work to S7 standards but not the track and wheels'.

 

But I thought the track and wheels were the main thing, as with P4 etc...

[fail safe]

17 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

But I thought the track and wheels were the main thing, as with P4 etc...

Yes for many that is vital, but there is also the modelling concept.  It's not just track and wheels, that idea is a common misconception, albeit a very subtle one. 

[F-UnitMad]

4 hours ago, fail safe said:

 I've seen people are now beginning to say 'I work to S7 standards but not the track and wheels'. 

 

47 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

But I thought the track and wheels were the main thing, as with P4 etc...

It's a slightly humourous play on terms - meaning that someone models everything else to the highest standards they can, except for the track & wheels. This is because adopting S7 for track & wheels is a bit of a waste of effort if the rest of the layout has mediocre scenery & buildings.

As standard O scale is already about the equivalent of EM in 4mm scale, it's already quite 'fine' looking; indeed some layouts I've seen at shows I've only realised were S7 because of the wheel flanges, rather than the trackwork. Some where I haven't paid attention at all, I never realised were S7 until I read the Show guide afterwards back home!!

[chris p bacon]

3 hours ago, fail safe said:

Not quite sure what you mean. Best not to isolate a selective part of what I'm suggesting!

 

I just wondered what you meant by that, I only quoted part as it doesn't need the whole text repeating.

 

Sometimes people have thought about creating a 'Society' but think you can do it without a structure (no chairman etc) but that is fraught with problems as there is no clear leadership. 

 

If instead you are thinking about a simple online presence (forum) to pool info and ideas in one place you could approach Andy Y and ask if a seperate sub section could be created here (RMWeb), it wouldn't be closed and so anyone registered with RMWeb would be able to read and comment and Andy may not like the idea of having to Mod somewhere else (he already has a 27 hour day) but you can but try.  

If you wanted it as a closed forum you could ask that every contributor has paid for RMWeb gold then I think that access can be restricted to only those members. Obviously everybody wants something for free but this place does cost money and it would help defray the costs. 

 If not there's always Wordpress with a forum attached.