Beyer Garatt, and its hatred of points

[yelrow]

Hi, have this new Beyer Garatt, that happily zooms up and down straights and curves. Wanted to put in a small siding, so could run other big locos, without removing Beyer. Have tried all option points that i have, all, Hornby, and it derails at some point, over whatever i try.. Can anyone recommend a point made by another manufacturer, that it is likely to accept.   thank you.

[simon b]

Can you fit a peco large radius point in? I would expect Hornbys points are too sharp a radius for it.

[DCB]

Peco medium radius should be fine and I would be surprised if the Garatt, Heljan(?) can't get round Peco 2ft small radius . Its only a pair of small wheeled Crabs back to back.  The standard Hornby points are a nominal 2nd radius but the tight bit through the blades is nearer 15" radius. My Bachmann 64XX pannier can't get round Hornby standard points so I'm not surprised the Garatt can't

[jcm@gwr]

A friend of mine has one, not a problem with the Peco points

on his layout (mixture of radii)

Have you checked the back-to-back of all the wheelsets yet?

[yelrow]

thanks, guys, have checked, back to back, seems about right, and it belts along the straights, and Hornby, large curves.    I think, it sulks, when faced with the prospect of sitting in a siding.   Trouble is, removing it, requires a planned operation, and these lifting boxes, aint cheap.  Will look at peco large radius, cos i have a Rivarossi, Big Boy, and a challenger, that may be just as  touchy.

[jcm@gwr]

I can't remember how easy it would be to do, but it might be worth removing

the pony trucks and running it as a double 0-6-0, to see if there is any change.

Also, are the main power units free to rotate fully both ways?

[simon b]

2 hours ago, yelrow said:

thanks, guys, have checked, back to back, seems about right, and it belts along the straights, and Hornby, large curves.    I think, it sulks, when faced with the prospect of sitting in a siding.   Trouble is, removing it, requires a planned operation, and these lifting boxes, aint cheap.  Will look at peco large radius, cos i have a Rivarossi, Big Boy, and a challenger, that may be just as  touchy.

 Peco sl88 or sl89 are what I'd be looking for, those are large radius. There are some with a slight curve to them to if it helps. None of these come with fish plates (rail joiners) attached, they are sold separately.

Edited July 13, 2020 by simon b

[yelrow]

thanks guys, belts away on straights, so presume , power units ok.  will look at peco .

[Pete the Elaner]

9 hours ago, jcm@gwr said:

A friend of mine has one, not a problem with the Peco points

on his layout (mixture of radii)

Have you checked the back-to-back of all the wheelsets yet?

 

Assuming it is a Heljan one in question (the OP does not specify)?

 

I checked the b2bs on mine before running & they were way too tight. So tight that I expected it would split every set of points it encountered.

Correcting the b2bs looked a bit daunting so I decided to try running it anyway. Although it is my poorest loco for staying on the rails, it does better than I thought it would.

[yelrow]

i have been checking on this loco , which came from a private collection. How does one know if it is a hatton one. It came in a  Heljan box. thanks

[Free At Last]

4 minutes ago, yelrow said:

i have been checking on this loco , which came from a private collection. How does one know if it is a hatton one. It came in a  Heljan box. thanks

On my Hattons/Heljan Garratt the only sign of it being a Hattons model is their logo on the instruction leaflet.

[yelrow]

Thank you, now here is the rub, owner could not find instructions, so mine came without.   I am fairly sure it is a Hattons one, i presume, Heljan, would know.

[Sturminster_Newton]

What would Hornby 'express points' bring to the party? Other than a lot of smirking behind covering hands.

 

They have a large radius and might be suited to giving access to the yard via a headshunt or loop.

 

A bit space hungry like all with a wide arc of operation but if you want to handle big loco's then sometimes you have to engineer the rails to suit the need

 

They also match the radius of the Hornby Y points which may open other opportunities.

 

 

[JWRStation]

Yelrow

 

The main problem with the Garret on points is due to the front steps.  Mine tends to derail on point sets or curved points that are positioned in the curve and configured to move to the inner track.  The rear wheel linkage presses against the steps which then pushes the tender outwards and forces the front pair of driving wheels off the rails; the pony truck has a lot more movement and thus is not affected.

 

I say 'sets' because the Garratt is designed for 2nd radius curves and thus makes the first point OK however, it is the combination of two as the front tender wants to move one way and the rear another as one will be on a LH 'curve' and the other a 'right'.  This has the effect of acting like a tighter curve than the actual second radius and thus the steps come in contact.  Similar for the curved points (when displaced from a straight entry) though this is because the loco is already in a curve and moving onto the switched part for the inner track again makes it effectively a tighter than radius two curve and the steps touch.

 

Unfortunately the steps are part of the detail and cannot be moved back a bit though they are Curved inwards (I assume the rear things were???).  I will be looking to 'Straighten' mine which should not look out of place (especially if I also match the rear steps to the same profile), hopefully the extra 0.5mm or so  will be enough to keep things on track.  It is also possible to 'shave' a little of the plastic off the back of the step which would add that little more clearance.  Thinking on I may go for this option first as it will the 'look'...

 

Now on to running backwards, the rear step are well displaced from the coal tender and so do not catch whilst the water tender when trailing will still catch the steps however, the weight over the leading wheels of the loco weight keeps everything in line.

 

Joe

[JWRStation]

Tried it out and whilst better it is not the full answer.  Further investigation undertaken and just at the point of contact with the steps the body also seemed to tilt slightly and the twisting force was still on the tender; obviously something else was happening?  Turned over the tenders could be moved a lot further round then when on the track but the body sides seemed to catch on the tender frame.  Lifting up slightly stopped this catching so I put the loco back on the track but this time  with spacers under the pivot points.  A bit thick at 1.5mm but its all I had and it left enough of the pivot pins protruding so as to keep everything else in place..

 

Test run and a completely different loco with the water tender nicely following the track and NO derailments...  I tested it as at ludicrously fast scale speed over my multiple points set and despite sounding like a 'bag of spanners' as it went across them, it did not derail.  Still just touches the steps but this was obviously not the primary cause of the derailing however, I will leave the front ones straightened anyway.

 

Rides and looks OK with the spacers in but I will try with slightly thinner ones just to remove the slight gap visible between the body and the trucks...

 

Joe