Bill Bedford Sprung W Irons

[unknown]

Hi all,

 

I'm currently building a series of Cambrian SPA kits have have chosen to represent the W Irons/axle guards by using the Bill Bedford sprung units.

 

I have folded them up as per the instructions but not having used these before I'm concerned that there appears to be approx 1mm of side to side play of the axle and that, to me, doesn't appear to be right. Are the bearings I'm using a mismatch for the the W Irons? Can't confirm the brand of them as I 'borrowed' them from the old man - and he doesn't remember either!

 

Using Gibson wheels, axle length measures 25.9mm using the vernier calipers.

Waisted bearings of unknown origin.

W Irons folded to 90 degrees.

 

Whats anyone else thoughts if they have/have not encountered similar, or what is the ideal combination, what works for you?

 

Cheers, Simon.

[brossard]

 

Deleted

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by brossard

[westie7]

I'm in the middle of a similar wagon project

I'm using the W Irons and bearings from Eileen's Emporium. There is a bit of side to side play which I compensate by bending in the sides. 

 

Regards

Mark

[Grovenor]

Standard axles are 26mm, 25.9 is close enough, with BB W irons and waisted bearings I don't get significant sideplay, that said waisted bearings are not very consistent and I use a Masokits depth gauge (Comes on one of their etches) to sort the bearings into shllow, standard and deep so I can select ones that suit the specific axle/W-iron combo..Standardisation and consistency are not features of our cottage industries!

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I agree with your comments about the lack of consistency in bearing dimensions.

I currently have a couple of Cambrian kits on the workbench, which now seem to need 010" spacers behind them to prevent too much axle slop, although they need to be built to the dimensions of the slots etc in the kit rather everything being put in the right place individually.

I also use the BB w iron spacing jig which gives me consistency in construction, but am often undone by the bearings.

Which fret is the depth gauge on please?

 

Mike.

[unknown]

22 hours ago, westie7 said:

I'm in the middle of a similar wagon project

I'm using the W Irons and bearings from Eileen's Emporium. There is a bit of side to side play which I compensate by bending in the sides. 

 

Regards

Mark

Have to say thought about something similar but in reality shouldn't have to do that. I noted in the instructions it mentions used a certain type of bearing, I assume the bearing you are using is the ones mentioned in the instructions?

[unknown]

9 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Standard axles are 26mm, 25.9 is close enough, with BB W irons and waisted bearings I don't get significant sideplay, that said waisted bearings are not very consistent and I use a Masokits depth gauge (Comes on one of their etches) to sort the bearings into shllow, standard and deep so I can select ones that suit the specific axle/W-iron combo..Standardisation and consistency are not features of our cottage industries!

Interesting that you mentioned something very similar elsewhere, possibly Scalefour society forum, about the depth gauge pictured. Perhaps this 'is' the ultimate issue, is the bearing too deep as such?

 

Out of interest, what brand of waisted bearings are you using? Other than that, finding a longer axle (27mm approx - do they exist?) or trying to extend an axle with some tube might be the way forward but seems a very long winded way to get these to work.

[Mark Forrest]

I tend to use Markits waisted bearings, think I read somewhere that they have the most consistent depth.  Combined with either Gibson or Maygib wheels, I seem to be getting away with it.

 

I seem to recall that the assembly suggestion provided with the axleguards suggests (or did, last time I read it) not soldering the bearing in place until you know it is the right depth.  Presumably (although I've never bothered doing it myself) you could put a thin washer between the bearing and its carrier to reduce the distance between bearings that are found to be too deep?

 

Edit to add, this might be of interest?

http://www.clag.org.uk/bearing-interface.html

[billbedford]

I'm surprised that a wheelset with 1mm side play stayed in bearings.

 

While there is a good deal of variation in pin-point bearings, usually the problems stem from them being machined  too shallow rather than too deep. A quick look at the CLAG bearing- interface page should convince everyone that there is no set of standard dimensions for these things, each manufacturer has used their own ideas of how they should work. 

 

I suggest the only answer to the OP would be to ditch the bearings he is using and buy some from a current source. 

 

Fixing washers between the bearing and carrier will not work with waisted bearings, as the parallel part of the bearing is not deep enough to be held in the slot in the w-iron etching. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Bill, as mentioned above,I use your jig to set my solebars/w irons, which manufacturers bearings did you use to arrive at the jigs dimensions?

 

Mike.

[Grovenor]

20 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Which fret is the depth gauge on please?

Mike.

It comes with the W-iron packs, at least with the BR plate versions I have, should be in them all, its a seperate little fret with the gauge and 4 washers. The W-iron instructions also specify how to use it.

[Grovenor]

15 hours ago, unknown said:

Out of interest, what brand of waisted bearings are you using? Other than that, finding a longer axle (27mm approx - do they exist?) or trying to extend an axle with some tube might be the way forward but seems a very long winded way to get these to work.

I have used Alan Gibson waisted bearings with these. I've never had to use a longer axle than the standard 26 mm.

[westie7]

Looks like I need to look at bearings I have