Diagram 150 40t Girder Wagons Photos?

[Yellowperil]

Hope RMWebbers can help!

 

I'm after pictures of the BR Dia 150 Girder wagons operating in traffic.

 

Paul Bartletts site has some great detail shots of wagons in sidings, and there are two good shots in the 53A Models Collection, but what I'm really after is photos showing the wagons in traffic showing locomotive types, runner wagon types, brake van types, train headcodes, dates etc.

 

If anyone has any good photos, they would be gratefully received.

 

Pictures of these wagons operating in traffic are quite rare it seems.

[SP Steve]

If you can source "British Railways Wagons - Their loads and loading" by Brian Grant & Bill Taylor (ISBN 1-85794-205-1) then there are a few decent shots of Girdwags in traffic.

 

The pictures tend to show them at manufacturers sites before dispatch or after arrival on site so loco types would depend on the dispatching region - there is one image of a set with a class 24 or 25 lurking in the distance (many of the pictures were taken in the Middlesbrough area).

 

When used for conveyance of girders then the load effectively acted as the wagon body, with it hung between the two sets so hence did not overhang the headstocks. However the sets could be used for other loads and there is one image of a Girdwag MB carrying a cylindrical vessel at the start of its journey with what appears to be a Conflat attached. Certainly a lot of the photos within the book show that Flatrols were a popular choice for runners.

 

BR Dia 2/150 sets were unfitted so presume would warrant a similarly unfitted / piped brake van.

 

When travelling the loads would have been treated as one offs with details listed in Special Traffic Notices but an Ian Allan "British Railways Headcodes" book of 1962 shows that universal headcodes had been instituted for such workings:

 

8Z02 - Out of gauge load train which can pass a similar out of gauge load train similarly signalled on adjoining line.

 

8Z03 - Out of gauge load train which cannot pass a similar out of gauge load train similarly signalled on adjoining line.

 

8Z04 - Out of gauge load train which requires the adjoining line to be blocked

 

Eastern Region (Great Northern) also gave "F" for special trains to the East Coast main line that did not traverse LMR lines, "X" for special trains to or via LMR lines and "Z" for special trains local to the Eastern Region.

[Yellowperil]

Steve, useful info thanks very much, I'll try and source the book mentioned.

The wagons were unfitted but could be fitted with a temporary pipe for operation in a fitted train, particularly in later years. Brake vans were used anyway not only for carrying the guard, but also the attendant load inspector. The info about the headcodes is also extremely useful!

 

I've seen BR loading drawings showing conflats, Lowmac and Loriots acting as runner wagons. Quite often, there would also be bogie bolsters used to return the empty wagons (they often didn't run unloaded).

 

What does seem weird is the lack of photos of the wagons operating in an actual train. I assumed they'd be photographed, being specially diagrammed trains, but this appears not to be the case.

 

 

thanks

[SED Freightman]

On 15/07/2020 at 15:41, Yellowperil said:

What does seem weird is the lack of photos of the wagons operating in an actual train. I assumed they'd be photographed, being specially diagrammed trains, but this appears not to be the case.

 

I think the reason for a lack of photos may be that most movements were undertaken at night due to the various speed and operating restrictions applicable to the larger out of gauge movements.  Whilst short movements may have occured in daytime between loading points and the nearest main yard or recessing point, any long distance movement would have probably occured outside of the hours when passenger traffic may have been affected.

 

I had some involvement in two movements destined for the South Eastern Division, firstly in 1982 a movement conveying four fabricated steel girders from Fairfield Mabey, Chepstow to Angerstein Wharf for two bridges across the new Bugsby's Way road.  From what I recall the initial move was a daytime trip from Chepstow to Gloucester New Yard, thence overnight to Old Oak Common West.  I accompanied the SED Loads Inspector (Norman (Ron) Aylen) to check the load securing and measurements during the afternoon of 28/05/1982 at OOC West, prior to a Hither Green loco and crew moving the loads forward the following night.  Unfortunately I cannot remember wether the load was carried on Girder Wagons or Conger Wagons.

 

The second movement comprised two prefabricated box girder sections manufactured by Butterley Engeneering for the Atlantic Lines bridge at Brixton conveyed on Conger Wagons. This train was initially tripped to Codnor Park Exchange Sdgs, from where it moved on 16/10/1989 to (presumably) Toton Yard, before moving overnight to Cricklewood Recess Sdgs. Once again I accompanied the SR HQ Loads Inspector (Terry Knight) to Cricklewood for examination of the load prior to movement onwards to Stewarts Lane.  Unusually the move took place in daylight as the route only involved a relatively short distance on passenger lines with few restrictions other than speed.  On this occasion I was able to travel on the special train and obtain a couple of photos which I will dig out and post if anyone is interested.  The train was stabled on the Bridge PAD at Stewarts Lane for several days whilst additional steelwork was added to the box girders, making them further out of gauge in the the process.  The movement from Butterley to Stewarts Lane was air braked with temporary air pipes attached along the load, whilst from Stewarts Lane to Brixton the girders were moved separately on two unfitted movements, possibly the last to operate South of the Thames.

[jonhall]

9 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

On this occasion I was able to travel on the special train and obtain a couple of photos which I will dig out and post if anyone is interested.  

 

yes please!

 

Jon

[Yellowperil]

Agreed, the photos would be fascinating!

[SED Freightman]

Apologies in advance for the quality of the photos, but I hope they will be of some interest.

 

Firstly, three views of 6X56 1310 (Mon) Codnor Park Exchange Sdgs to Stewarts Lane taken at Cricklewood Recess Sdgs after its overnight movement by LMR resources.  This photo shows the leading end of the movement with the 35.88m long box section girder, weighing 60.5t, resting on two Conger Wagons.

 

Here is the second longer box girder section of 41.161m, weighing 84.5t, supported on Conger wagons and overhanging runner wagons at either end.

 

A closer view of the longer girder resting on Conger Wagon DB998070 showing the securing arrangements, specially fabricated bolster and various temporary securing and lifting brackets.  The temporary air brake pipe and supprting arrangements can also be seen attached to the runner wagon and then slung under the end of the load before passing through the girder.

 

Here is 8X56 with 73132 attached ready to depart on the last stage of its journey. Formation : short girder on Conger Wagons + runner + long girder on Conger Wagons + runner + two open wagons for returning the Conger Wagons after use, these also made up the three fitted wagons on the rear.

 

8X56 propelling north out of Cricklewood Recess Sdgs in order to access the Dudding Hill Branch.  The curved nature on the shorter girder, albeit fabricated from straight sections, can be clearly seen in this view, along with the air brake pipe disappearing into the end of the longer girder.

 

Finally nearing journeys end, a view back along 8X56 taken between Ludgate Jn and Culvert Road Jn.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Trying to ID the runner wagon - the double link suspension suggests a cut-down ferry wagon or maybe AB van (VAA-type?), with extra rails for ballast weight?

[dvdlcs]

I assumed the runner was one of the former SAA steel bolster wagons, but yes, could be the underframe from something else in that family of vehicles.

[markw]

I think it is a Ford Palvan, the triangular bracing under the headstock is quite distinctive.

[Yellowperil]

SED fantastic historical photos...especially as I model the Erewash Valley Line!

[SED Freightman]

3 hours ago, Yellowperil said:

SED fantastic historical photos...especially as I model the Erewash Valley Line!

Thanks, if you model the Erewash Valley I guess there would have been a number of interesting loads originating from Butterley Engineering over the years.  Another interesting load to pass that way from the South Eastern Division would have been the MoD Flask wagon and escort coaches when en route from Chatham Dockyard to Sellafield or Rosyth.

[eastwestdivide]

6 hours ago, markw said:

I think it is a Ford Palvan, the triangular bracing under the headstock is quite distinctive.

I see what you mean. Here's one I photographed at Barking in Sep 1983 while still a van:

[P58586]

When was the POLLEN E designated as GIRDWAG WE?

Also, what is the timeline for livery colour changes?

Many thanks,

Peter Prydderch,

 Stockport

 

[Wickham Green too]

Both changes would have occurred early in B.R. days.

 

Reverting to the original dia 2/150 theme - there's a good - though small - shot of B907500 in traffic at Cowlairs in Don Rowland's 'British Railways Wagons'.

I'm not sure whether these wagons retained their original partners throughout - if so B907500 is the further one in : - 

 

... and B907504 is the further one in : - 

Telford, Horeshay : 26/5/80