RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Has anyone got any diagrams or pics of the underside of a Siphon C? I've got the side views in the Slinn/Clark book but can't exactly tell how the brake linkages for the DC levers are routed. Edited August 1, 2020 by 57xx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 DC brake rigging is a bit tricky, at least to me. I've done it for a few wagons but yet to build a Siphon. I'd like to see this myself. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillCav Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi 57xx I've just finished a Siphon C using the Ratio 4 wheel brake third as a basis for the underframe. I don't put much detail underneath so I'm not the best person to answer you. I just used the Ratio V hangers etc as directed and added a V hanger at each right hand end for a DC level. I would guess that the linkages go from there directly to the central(ish) Vacuum V hanger. Both linkages would have to be on the side away from the gas cylinder as it gets in the way. When you're ready to add transfers, the Railtec transfers for Siphon F/G have small Siphon (F) lettering that fits in the tight space required - I used an edited 'O' from Siphon G for the 'C'. Will 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 The layout appears similar to tools vans. Mike Wiltshire 2 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Great pics, Mike. Is the triangular safety loop under the cylinder a modernism? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) Thanks Mike, those are perfect. From what I have see in the book and of the Scorpio kit, the first pics do look like the same underframe, even down to the truss type. Are the last few pics of a different tool van, it looks like that one had two vac cylinders at one time and can't see and DC lever attachments? Knowing they are so similar/same, I need to dig out my pics I took the other year of the tool vans, not sure if I took too many of the underframe though. Do you have any of the lever ends? This is as far as I have got so far: I knew the linkages to the claps brakes would have to run along the centreline, it was then finding out which side of those that the DC linkages ran. Also there is then a long link between the two levers (with support part way along similar to Pythons) and then a 3rd link from the ratchet end back to the centre V. Ratchet end is on the left. Looking at pics 1,4 & 5 above, I think I need to shove the gas tank supports outwards and move the internal V support further over that way to accommodate the DC linkages. This then throws into doubt the long DC mount on the right. I just blindly copied that off this pic of an unfinished Scorpio pic: Edited July 16, 2020 by 57xx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, God's Wonderful Railway 1835 said: Well looking at photos it will be the DC 3 type of brakes and it will most likely be the same as the brakes on the Open C wagon and the Mink G van unfortunately I haven't any photos of the brake gear on these wagons to help you out. Just found that there is a good drawing of this type of brake gear in MRC Oct 1980 of the Python which will most likely be the same. The Open C and Mink G don't have clasp brakes and have two V hangers, not one central one like the Siphon. The Python however is very similar, that is the closest I have found, but again only have a side view GA drawing. Edited July 16, 2020 by 57xx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 If you open the PDF for underframe and solebar kits under Morgan Design, you will get a lot of great info on how underframes were arranged: https://www.scalefour.org/resources/downloads.html John 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2020 Hi John, yes I have that, that's where I have the Python side view from. There isn't a "downwards" shot of the underside though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Coach bogie said: The layout appears similar to tools vans. Mike Wiltshire I'd like to give more than 1 Thanks for this post! I've dug into my old Didcot pics and have all the shots I need now, including the DC lever ends. Also got some very similar views to your's above. I'd forgotten I'd taken so many as I have the Hayes toolvan kits stashed away and went to town taking underside pics. I'll have a look in the instructions for them too in case of any diagrams in there. I'll resize and post my own protype pics for others to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, 57xx said: Hi John, yes I have that, that's where I have the Python side view from. There isn't a "downwards" shot of the underside though. No but there are views of wagons with DC3 brakes. The mechanisms for DC3 would be the same for all wagons. This is my Slaters GWR Cattle Wagon with DC3 brakes: Note the instruction sheet. I did make some of the links myself as the kit didn't include them. HTH John Edited July 16, 2020 by brossard 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2020 Same but similar. I think there are subtleties in layout that I'm trying to determine. I can't see any evidence of the reduction lever between the ratchet and the centre V shaft on these long wheelbase vehicles in either the Morgan diagrams or prototype pics. Pretty sure I got enough to go on now though. Here are some of the pics I took of the tool van at Didcot. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 23 hours ago, Miss Prism said: Great pics, Mike. Is the triangular safety loop under the cylinder a modernism? I do not know when it was introduced, but I have seen it on others. There was a Mink G local to me that had it. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2020 Thanks to all ho contributed here, I have now finished the brake rigging.... unless I decide to add the safety loops too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I make a point of adding the yoke safety loops. I find that pretty much all kit manufacturers ignore the detail and it does make a difference IMO. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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