Old-fashioned 00 - does anyone model in it?

[Ben B]

I sort of do, if unintentionaly... when I built our youngest a layout, the foundation for it was my old 80's and 90's Hornby stuff, so barring a couple of Railroad versions of the 0-4-0 tanks it all looks terribly retro.  The scenics have ended up that way too, all paint and scatter rather than static grass, etc.  Thing is, it's perfect for her, no small parts to be damaged, and the locos are surprisingly reliable, even my old stuff.  Heavens, it's 2020 and it's a child playing with a train set, that's 00 but with no fine detailing or DCC! Surely the Earth will shatter and the sky fall in... I shall repent and spend £200 on a DMU with working lighting at once

 

I'm embracing it, and get a nostalgia kick from it all of course; for the first time in my recent life I have a little bit of disposable income for treats, and what am I buying?  All those lovely Hornby diesels I couldn't afford as a kid. I got the Railfreight red-stripe 08 (with the woefully  incorrect chassis) at Christmas, and last week bought the red stripe 37 too... at this rate I might get the sky-blue Pacer

 

Incidentally, an earlier post mentioned poor running quality of the older models... I abandoned 00 in favour of N as a teenager in the late 90's, but found even my old 00 stuff, basic as it was, ran better than 90's Farish...  Damned near put me off the whole hobby at the time.

[Flying Pig]

On 19/07/2020 at 16:25, Steamport Southport said:

 

What to?  It's old fashioned. It's 00 gauge.

 

 

 

Absolutely - old fashioned Modern Image.  Crystal clear and no room for disagreement

 

Really though, I think it would fit in the collectables forum.  They already have a thread about MTK, which was bang on trend for D&E modellers in the period being discussed here and about as crudipure as it gets:

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

If someone 3D printed a 4mm scale Bernard Cribbins using today’s technology would that be OK to include?  
 

One of the attractions when I switched from N Gauge to OO in 1991 were the 1st radius curves that made a small layout possible for me.  The (perceived) greater reliability of Hornby OO was the other selling point as I didn’t have the tools / time / skills to do more than ‘plug and play’ (and my N Gauge stock had been basically unused for nearly a decade by then because of this).  It was a move that has stood the test of time: I’m still using a Hornby Dunster Station kit and Church kit from those days and one or two other bits, but as part of contemporary projects rather than in a complete 80’s layout.
 

Certainly the Hornby Track Plan book defined what I thought UK Railway Modelling meant to someone like me without specialist skills.  It all looked so much fun - which was the point!

Edited July 21, 2020 by Keith Addenbrooke

[t-b-g]

I wonder if the Hornby Dublo layout which was illustrated in the recent "Minories" thread would count.

 

A "proper" model railway in terms of layout and operation but done with all RTR Hornby Dublo.

 

 

Is that something along the lines of what is being discussed?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I suggest there is more than one way to read the OP - which informed my earlier post:

 

On 18/07/2020 at 13:26, Alex TM said:

Is it something that anybody models in or with?...  

 

...I am thinking about those who choose to model with items that were available before the early 1980s.

 

I still use items I think were first available in that period - page 38 of July '19 BRM has my Hornby Church kit showing in a photo, for example.  I bought my own copy of the kit in the 1990s, but - as others have noted - many items stayed in production year after year and the designs were already decades old by then.

 

What we learned growing up has a big influence in later life: particularly for people like me who weren't very active in the hobby for many years.  So, another example, one of my current projects re-uses Sundeala baseboards with 2" x 1" softwood framing.  It went out of fashion while I wasn't looking, but I still have some.

 

I also still have an H&M Powermaster Controller in working order which I plan to use for another layout (I'm controlling this layout with a spare Hornby Trainset Controller).

 

This photo from my own Layout thread shows the controller connection, large tension lock couplings, cork underlay (still used today), and the Dunster station kit I made 27 years ago referred to in my earlier post.

 

 

But while I'm using these items in a layout I'm building today, I'm not aiming to recreate r-t-r Railway Modelling from the 1970s / 1980s.  I just grew up with layouts that looked like this (so these things don't look too odd to me), I'm comfortable with how they work and how to use them and - of course - I still have them.

 

It's a different interpretation - a full-on model recreating r-t-r Railway Modelling from the 1970s / 1980s would bring back many memories, but would be quite different.  It'll be interesting to see what examples are around.  

 

The lines will blur though - A local Model Shop has a Hornby Terminus Station kit on sale - plastic overall roof and modular station building included.  It's still in production today if you want one...

Edited October 5, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke
Reinstating pictures

[Zomboid]

The memory of the state of British RTR (mainly Hornby) in the early 90s when I was doing my first round of interest in model railways was a major factor in driving me to model in American HO.

 

Though at the time I always wanted the layouts illustrated in the Hornby track plan books. That 12x4 looks as though it would offer quite a lot of entertainment, but it was the even bigger one from the previous edition that I was most excited by. No idea why anyone with that kind of space would build such a thing, but the 9 year old me wanted it...

[The Johnster]

A layout plan book published by an RTR company has one purpose and that only, to persuade trainset owners to expand using as much of the company's catalogue as possible.  Very few of them were able to convince me that they resembled any real life situation even when I was 9 or 10 years old.  My inspiration came mostly from Cyril Freezer's 60 plans, but it became very quickly apparent that these plans were in some cases requisite of very skilled carpentry, cabinet maker level especially where multt-level operation was included, restricted you to very short train even considering the prototypes, and some were I suspect unbuildable.  They were inspirational nonetheless.

 

There was a hangover in the 70s and 80s from a 1950s concept that a model railway was an attempted reproduction of an entire railway; it was, after all, called a 'model railway' so was a modelled representation of a railway.  So there were 'out and back' 'inverted loop', and 'terminus to terminus' plans.  Continuous run layouts with single stations assumed that you left the station, ran a few circuits during which the station represented stations that your train ran through, then stopped at the same station which now represented the next scheduled stop; you set off from 'Paddington', passed through Slough and Maidenhead, and stopped at Reading, then passed through Pangbourne etc next stop Didcot.  Eventually you arrived at Bristol T.M. and that run was complete.  

 

Your layout's track formation, buildings, and scenery were representative, never intended to be be actual models of anything, any more than your Hornby Dublo Castle with 2 tinplate coaches was anything more than a nod in the direction of a Paddington-Bristol working.  Until the mid 60s, by which time HD was circling the drain, the RTR people, effectively Triang, did not supply a range of locos and stock that could represent any UK main line any more than half-heartedly, but nobody really minded that much; modelling, if you wanted to take it that seriously, was the preserve of finescale artists who could scratch or kit build locos and stock (Peter Denny, Frank Dyer, etc).  Triang's most comprehensive output was LMR orientated; Princess, 3F, Jinty, LMR numbered coaches.  There were nods to the Southern; Winston Churchill, L1, and S at a push, EMU, and Pullmans.  The GE got a look in with the Britannia, B12  and Brush Type 2, and for a long time the WR was represented by the BR 3MT tank and a brown toad.  Oh, and there was the Jinty chassis 08, and the Metrocamm dmu which could have been used on LMR, ER, NER, or ScR layouts with judicious numbering.

 

Hornby Dublo enabled you to model the ER with an A4 and an N2, then added a DP2/Deltic.  Or the LMR with a Duchess and an 8F, or SR with a rebuilt WC and an R1, or WR with a Castle and a, oh, yeah, another Castle I suppose, though there were WR liveried and lettered coaches including a TPO and a restaurant car.  The EE type 1 could be used on LMR or ER/NER layout, but the Metrovick was a purely LMR beast.

 

But that wasn't the intention.  Your railway wasn't a model of a region or line, it was a railway, so if you wanted a mixed traffic loco and were using Triang (not compatible with HD or vice versa) you had a choice, in 1965, between the Brush Type 2, B12, or 3MT, with the 3F being a possibility.  You would use a Princess, Britannia, or Winston Churchill as your express passenger loco, and freight would be handled by the Brush Type 2 or 3F, backed up by the shunters, your Jinty and your 08.  You'd be quite likely to use the Transcontinental range as well.  

 

So, this was still part of the culture, especially RTR culture, in the 70s and 80s.  The idea of being able to source all the locos and stock you'd need to model almost any stretch of line in the UK and do that to the exclusion of others is much more recent, and is the heritage of the earlier kit and scratch builders whose work we marvelled at in magazines and realised did not alway run reliably when we saw them at shows...  It developed in the 90 and is well rooted now; I can provide all the locos and stock I want from RTR sources for Cwmdimbath, which is a South Wales BLT set in the 50s and supplied with loco from Tondu shed, 86F.  The only items really likely to appear at this point in the space/time continuum are auto trailers, some of which are available as kits, and 2 loco classes which Tondu used on the Porthcawl branch and the main line, not the valleys branches, 44xx and Collett 31xx.

 

In 1965 there were some coaching stock kits available and any loco would have had to have been a white metal kit.  No 56xx, no 42xx, staples at Tondu, and no 64xx.  

 

In 1975 I'd have had an inappropriate Hymeks and Halls, and the Triang Hornby 8750 and 2721.  

 

In 1985 I'd have had more choice. Mainline 57xx, 56xx, Airfix 5101, Lima 94xx, 4575 AEC railcar, and A30 trailer and B sets, along with a much better quality and diversity of NPCCS and goods stock.

 

In 1995 I'd have had an increased diversity of good quality stock and improved versions of some of the above, and a decent 8750 (I think).  For the first time, 16ton and 7-plank minerals with the correct wheelbase were available.

 

In 2005, biodiversity is extended to 45xx,

 

In 2015, further extended to decent 4575. 

 

5 years on, I'm waiting for a pre-ordered decent 94xx, and own Collett suburbans not far off the actual vehicles used, a thing I would not have thought likely even 3 years ago.  I have a BLT representing a real valley that never had a coal mine or a railway as if it did have one with acceptably accurate items, more or less completely, from available RTR stuff, and any kit or scratch building (plenty planned in future) is icing on the cake.  I am of an age where this layout has enough to do on it to keep me going another 20 years after which matters will be probably academic.

 

I would be fascinated to see the results of a layout modelled in 70s or 80s style. they will recall a pivotal  ere in UK RTR modelling that led to the current situation which deserves to be seriously modelled as part of our collective culture and history, modelling models in a sense!

[andyman7]

22 hours ago, Titan said:

Well the average age of my rolling stock must be somewhere near 40 years old, and I model Br blue.  Yes there are some late 80's Lima in the mix, and one or two more modern items.  i have OLE, so I have a Trix 81, a Triang 81, Bachmann 85, 2x Hornby 86 and a Lima 87, as well as a yellow cab APT.   But the newer items are balanced by things like a Hornby Dublo class 20 painted blue, and three steam locos seen on mainline specials, a Triang Flying Scotsman, a Hornby Dublo Sir Nigel Gresley that could be really old as it might be a conversion from 3 rail, and a Triang Hornby Evening Star.

 

And I am in the process of detailing and painting a Triang DMU in to refurbished white with blue stripe livery - bet no one has done that!

 

All laid on Peco track, and powered by H&M!

 

I just love the smell of Ozone from the sparking of the motors, and the feel of the controllers. It is what I had when I was young and I am a little nostalgic for it!

 

15 hours ago, PatB said:

 

Well, not for ~40 years or so. There was an article in a '70s RM on doing exactly that. Well, the repainting bit anyway. Apart from Monty Wells, I'm not sure if anyone was bothering to detail diesels back then .

 

As a kid in the 70s, I craved modern image when the model shops and magazines were full of Flying Scotsman and GWR branch lines. There is a modern image 'Railway of the Month' in one of the 1977 RMs that to me was heaven, event though it was populated by Trix, Triang and MTK models.

Fast forward to 2020 and with the release of the Dapol 21/29 every single BR main line diesel has now been issued in 'super detail' format (and a fair few of the shunters too). So why do I find myself kitbashing MTK models and Lima diesels? Because I am finding enormous satisfaction in setting myself the test of what you would need to do to create that 1970/80s layout in the 1970/80s. Although the  old mechanisms are constantly scorned, I have found that with extra weight and pickups, they can perform entirely satisfactorily if not up to current standards. I too was inspired by Monty Wells' efforts and one of my projects is to upgrade a Triang/Hornby Class 37 so that it is a half decent model. Utterly pointless in logic-land when the Lima, Bachmann and Accurscale offerings will all get you much nearer the goal straight out of the box, but what a challenge. I remember Monty using Kitmaster Deltic  sideframes to replace the incorrect Hornby offering. Back in '83 the Kitmaster kit had been out of production for over 20 years and to a 13 year old schoolboy you might as well have suggested using Unicorn droppings, but guess what? In 2020 I have a box of spare Kitmaster Deltic parts, oh, and look there's a set of Craftsman cab window etched windscreens. Now where's that razor saw?

[Legend]

1 hour ago, andyman7 said:

 

As a kid in the 70s, I craved modern image when the model shops and magazines were full of Flying Scotsman and GWR branch lines. There is a modern image 'Railway of the Month' in one of the 1977 RMs that to me was heaven, event though it was populated by Trix, Triang and MTK models.

Fast forward to 2020 and with the release of the Dapol 21/29 every single BR main line diesel has now been issued in 'super detail' format (and a fair few of the shunters too). So why do I find myself kitbashing MTK models and Lima diesels? Because I am finding enormous satisfaction in setting myself the test of what you would need to do to create that 1970/80s layout in the 1970/80s. Although the  old mechanisms are constantly scorned, I have found that with extra weight and pickups, they can perform entirely satisfactorily if not up to current standards. I too was inspired by Monty Wells' efforts and one of my projects is to upgrade a Triang/Hornby Class 37 so that it is a half decent model. Utterly pointless in logic-land when the Lima, Bachmann and Accurscale offerings will all get you much nearer the goal straight out of the box, but what a challenge. I remember Monty using Kitmaster Deltic  sideframes to replace the incorrect Hornby offering. Back in '83 the Kitmaster kit had been out of production for over 20 years and to a 13 year old schoolboy you might as well have suggested using Unicorn droppings, but guess what? In 2020 I have a box of spare Kitmaster Deltic parts, oh, and look there's a set of Craftsman cab window etched windscreens. Now where's that razor saw?

I remember the 77 RM that had modern image in it , maybe Oct or Nov .. Electrics and diesels . I remember being jealous as he had 5 of this 6 of that etc . I also think there was an MTK kit for my beloved Class 126 Swindon dmu , I always fancied . 43 years later I’m finally making one from a Lima 117 chassis and Trix Mk1 coaches ( thanks to Signaller69s thread on here) . I was warned off MTK way too complex for me to make anything useful.

 

I loved the 3rd/4th edition Hornby track plans . The layouts were fun but hardly prototypical . That said in I enjoy Barrie Davies YouTube channel which is essentially plan 17 of the 3rd edition Hornby Track Plans 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

It’s worth reading through @The Johnster’s posts here for the careful explanation of the history.  I think one of the things highlighted is how the gap between commercial r-t-r and the rest of the hobby has perhaps progressively narrowed since the period in question.  As another example, I can think of a top layout now that uses a prominent ready-to-plant Bachmann building - but you wouldn’t know (I just happened to ask).  The consequences of this convergence are well documented elsewhere - what @Alex TM has reminded us of is the time before this, and the important place it has in its own right in the history of our hobby (and the memories of many of us). To build, maintain and display a r-t-r 70s / 80s layout today could be done, and @Legend’s layout goes a long way to proving it.  Keeping it running would I suspect, now require no little mechanical skill (ironically perhaps).
 

Some years ago we used to visit the Dapol factory in mid-Wales where they had a large exhibition of layouts that - from memory - also illustrated this history well.  
 

I’m sure all the bits are available - it would be easy to source many of the, if exhibition / club rummage boxes were accessible but there are other ways.  One thing that I can’t get away from: would you need a solid baseboard 6’ x 4’, 8’ x 4’ or bigger to be authentic too?

[Andy Reichert]

I don't have any choice. All my commercially produced models of the Pacific Electric were only made between 1975 and the late1980's.  All wer brass, no injection moulded models then or later. All excellent runners though.

 

Andy

[Legend]

19 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 To build, maintain and display a r-t-r 70s / 80s layout today could be done, and @Legend’s layout goes a long way to proving it.  Keeping it running would I suspect, now require no little mechanical skill (ironically perhaps).

Thanks Keith . I am basically a lazy person so do the minimum of maintenance but it all still runs fine .  I’ve written before that I think the modern metals used in track helps this , being less labour intensive . That said I have a Peco track cleaning rubber and a Gaugemaster fibre pen to clean wheels which I use . Other than that locos that haven’t run for a while get a bit to Peco electrolube . I think being in the relatively dry atmosphere of the loft may also help .  It is true that the M7 tank , for instance can stall on the diamond crossings at low speed, but my B12 just sails across without difficulty . So basic mechanisms but they work fine .  No major work required

Edited July 22, 2020 by Legend

[5050]

On 20/07/2020 at 21:20, Nova Scotian said:

The gent disappeared from Instagram more than a year ago now, but there used to be someone on there who posted videos often daily of an extensive Wrenn layout. Pretty much everything was Wrenn and it was a well used layout (no shelf queens etc).

When you say 'Wrenn' do you mean the ex-Hornby Dublo Wrenn (ie locos, rolling stock but using possibly Peco track) or a layout built using Wrenn track?  Like this?

 

 

If it was Wrenn track throughout I'd like to know how he wired it as there seems not to be any attempt at insulating gaps etc. etc. meaning the user had to work it all out him/her self.  At the time this was on the market, as a young lad, I wouldn't have had a clue and would probably have given up and taken up stamp collecting!

 

 

[Nova Scotian]

47 minutes ago, 5050 said:

When you say 'Wrenn' do you mean the ex-Hornby Dublo Wrenn (ie locos, rolling stock but using possibly Peco track) or a layout built using Wrenn track?  Like this?

 

 

If it was Wrenn track throughout I'd like to know how he wired it as there seems not to be any attempt at insulating gaps etc. etc. meaning the user had to work it all out him/her self.  At the time this was on the market, as a young lad, I wouldn't have had a clue and would probably have given up and taken up stamp collecting!

 

 

Wrenn rolling stock (ex-dublo), pretty sure it was on more recent track. That said, it's been at least a year, probably more, since I saw the user and I remember searching for them a while ago and thinking they may have deleted their instagram account. All the buildings and trackside etc seemed "of the period", and I'm guessing were probably Triang and the like? 

[adb968008]

I still have my heritage fleet..

 

including my dads first models (6233 and 80054)

my first model (37130 and 3 coaches), and others including a Triang Met Cam, 101+3 coaches, 13012, D6830, D1016 and 9006, Wrenn 48073,46235 and 35028.. all with me for 40 years now and still operational on their original wheels.

 

When it comes to the 1990’s.. My entire fleet of 25 Class 31’s are getting a Hornby motor upgrade currently... I dont see Hornby making those rare liveries anytime soon, and for £170 sheets the Lima ones are mostly better overall, so a £20 upgrade of a £19.99 bought model 25 years ago will more than suffice.

Edited July 22, 2020 by adb968008

[Alex TM]

On 19/07/2020 at 16:49, Mike Buckner said:

So you want this thread to exclude a great deal that is old fashioned and 00 gauge. That isn't clear from the thread title.

HI Mike,

 

I think you miss my point - I wanted to exclude the area of 'collecting', hence the use of the word 'model' in the thread title.  The references, earlier, to the '1963 BLT' or the Minories and Hornby-Dublo are along the lines of what I am thinking though from an era with which I am not yet familiar.

 

I have nothing against collecting models of, or from, any era, which is why I mentioned my enjoyment of the Tri-ang displays.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Alex TM
Updating reference.

[Alex TM]

On 20/07/2020 at 19:07, The Johnster said:

Thank you, 34, that has made my day.  Brilliant word!  I suppose the obverse has to puricrudity...

Brilliant ... try Googling those, and watch the software give up!

 

Both sound as if they come from a bygone age, and have a certain believability to them; again, brilliant.

[Andy Reichert]

6 hours ago, 5050 said:

When you say 'Wrenn' do you mean the ex-Hornby Dublo Wrenn (ie locos, rolling stock but using possibly Peco track) or a layout built using Wrenn track?  Like this?

 

 

If it was Wrenn track throughout I'd like to know how he wired it as there seems not to be any attempt at insulating gaps etc. etc. meaning the user had to work it all out him/her self.  At the time this was on the market, as a young lad, I wouldn't have had a clue and would probably have given up and taken up stamp collecting!

 

 

 

Mine was inserted into a double track oval on a 8 x 4 poorly braced sheet of "Essex Board".  I know it worked and there are gaps in the critical places if you look closely. But I can't remember now anything about how I how I wired it, if at all. This is the "universal" version, with moving frogs. I seem to have an idea that there was also a "fine scale" version with fixed frogs.

 

Andy

[melmoth]

In the late 70s/early 80s, the mostly unobtainable things for me were Mainline and Airfix locos and rolling stock. I had a GWR BLT powered by a Hornby pannier and a 101 tank. Rolling stock was Hornby 4 wheelers and some Cooper Craft and Ratio wagons.

 

I am massively tempted (as others have already been) to build The Art Of Compromise to late 70s standards, with appropriate stock, for no good modelling reason at all, but for that strange sense of fulfilling some nostalgic yearning. D.H. Lawrence put the whole thing rather well in his poem "Piano", quoted in full below:

 

Softly, in the dusk, a woman is singing to me;

Taking me back down the vista of years, till I see

A child sitting under the piano, in the boom of the tingling strings

And pressing the small, poised feet of a mother who smiles as she sings.

 

In spite of myself, the insidious mastery of song

Betrays me back, till the heart of me weeps to belong

To the old Sunday evenings at home, with winter outside

And hymns in the cosy parlour, the tinkling piano our guide.

 

So now it is vain for the singer to burst into clamour

With the great black piano appassionato. The glamour

Of childish days is upon me, my manhood is cast

Down in the flood of remembrance, I weep like a child for the past.

 

As you were chaps.

[The Johnster]

What a lovely thing to read just before I go to bed; thank you, Melmoth!

[Alex TM]

Hi again folks,

 

If I were to tell my non-modelling friends that this forum branches out into such subjects as comedy, music, philosophy, political and social history, physical sciences, and now classic English literature they would never believe me.  What a wonderful place this is!

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Alex TM said:

Hi again folks,

 

If I were to tell my non-modelling friends that this forum branches out into such subjects as comedy, music, philosophy, political and social history, physical sciences, and now classic English literature they would never believe me.  What a wonderful place this is!

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

You should have a browse through the Castle Aching thread in "Modelling Zone/Special Interests/Pre-Grouping - Modelling & Prototype... 

[Stubby47]

I have a collection of my early Hornby wagons, which I'd never thought I'd use again. But, I could use a selection on T-CATS as a change  (hand uncoupled) just for some fun....

 

Hmmm (mentally scuttles off to the loft to remember where the UD milk tanks, etc., are...)

[HonestTom]

I'm very fond of playing around with older models to see what I can make of them. Sure, there are better models available now, but I find it immensely satisfying to start out with a basic wagon from the 70s and break out the paints and powders. I've made a few videos about it on my YouTube channel, on the grounds that they're an inexpensive way to get started if you're new to the hobby.

 

I have a few books from the 70s and 80s and I have a kind of admiration for the ways people compromised. I remember one book that made much of a layout based on a North Yorkshire branch line in LNER days that used an Airfix N2, Hornby Gresley coaches and a mixed bag of RTR wagons to represent the appropriate stock. I think the Triang J83 was on there too.

[5050]

On 21/07/2020 at 11:03, t-b-g said:

I wonder if the Hornby Dublo layout which was illustrated in the recent "Minories" thread would count.

 

A "proper" model railway in terms of layout and operation but done with all RTR Hornby Dublo.

 

 

Is that something along the lines of what is being discussed?

But that's 2-rail Tony!  John Taylor operates a 'proper' 3-rail HD version of 'Minories'.  Very little 'scenery' apart from the basic requirements using HD buildings wherever possible and a very intensive service.