K's GWR Dean Outside Frame 0-6-0

[Jeff Smith]

I was discussing acquiring and build plans for this kit in another thread but decided it will merit it's own:-

 

Well, I have now received this 40+ year old kit.  This is boxed and thus pre-dates the bubble/card packed ones like the 63xx I'm just finishing.  The approach was somewhat different than the later kits although I've no idea if K's changed the design for the later Dean Goods.

 

The pot of Humbrol GWR green is still useable, although not by me as I have some acrylic versions.

 

The chassis sides appear accurate, straight and seem to have been milled with keyhole slots not stamped.  Spacer holes have been drilled and countersunk.  The main wheels have been mounted on the axles with top-hat bearings in situe, and the gear on the driven axle.  Assembly was to slide the separate frame sides over the axles using the keyhole slots, then spacing them out engaging the bearings into the frames.  Each axle has one live and one insulated wheel.

 

The Mk 1 motor runs but I won't be using it!

 

This is basically a 2301 Class Dean Goods with outside frame castings added.  This really is an entirely fictitious locomotive as the 20 2361 Class locos, although carrying numbers in the Dean Goods series, were actually completely different.  However visually they are similar enough, especially as later in life some of them apparently had Dean Goods (Belpair) boilers fitted from the boiler pool.  The cab sides were very similar and the same 5'2" wheels fitted, however the 2301's had 7'3"+8'3" wheelbase whereas the 2361's were 7'9"+8'0" .  After much consideration I decided that the few mm's difference will not be worth all the work required.  My plan is to use as much of the kit as possible with adaptation for Gibson P4 wheels, compensation and a new g/b and motor.  Also probably some detail fittings like smoke box door darts, buffers, and brakes.

 

Wiki mentions that the 2361 class was double framed and designed to be convertible to broad gauge (although none were).  This model will also be double framed as I will be using the K's chassis spaced out to P4 and either fully sprung or with the rear axle fixed and a single beam between the middle and front.  The outside frames will be just cosmetic.

 

I will not be starting this for a while but here are the chassis sides temporally screwed together using axle shims in addition to the supplied OO spacers.  Elongating the slots will be straightforward for compensation and it should fit into the body casting without too much work.

 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Gibson p4 wheels definitely improve these kits, I did the same. 

[hayfield]

8 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Gibson p4 wheels definitely improve these kits, I did the same. 

 

Usually most replacement parts improve K's locos  !!   

 

Having said this I have loads of k's locos and all of their standard gauge coaches and wagons. 

[Jeff Smith]

Just discovered that the punched holes in the K's frames are actually too big for standard top hat bearings so I'll be using the K's ones - I'll have to disassemble the wheels and axles to get them off though.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

On 28/09/2020 at 16:28, Jeff Smith said:

Just discovered that the punched holes in the K's frames are actually too big for standard top hat bearings so I'll be using the K's ones - I'll have to disassemble the wheels and axles to get them off though.

Yes I probably should have mentioned that might happen.

[Jeff Smith]

An update.  K's chassis sides slotted to accept the K's bearings as hornblocks for leading and centre drivers, 1mm upward movement allowed, rear driver fixed.  Chassis spacers repositioned to clear the motor and compensation - old position of one used for beam pivot - and shims added to suit P4.

 

[5050]

Have you secured the spacer fixing screws Jeff?  Coming loose could be a problem.

[Jeff Smith]

 I will secure the screws with loctite on final assembly, also retain the wheels with wire glued across the slots.

[Jeff Smith]

I will be getting a 2361 class number plate but have not settled on which one yet.  2370 is a possible as there are couple of good pictures but with two different Belpaire fireboxes, an earlier vertical sided one and the later one, as per the kit, narrower at the base.

 

I'm also toying with finishing it in black as according to GWR.org.uk a number of close to withdrawal Dean Goods were painted black circa 1925/30.  I don't how this worked for the tenders though as these often came from the tender pool......

 

I'd also appreciate knowing if superheating had any external identifiable features.

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

two different Belpaire fireboxes, an earlier vertical sided one

 

????

 

Quote

I'd also appreciate knowing if superheating had any external identifiable features.

 

Chimneys were in the forward position if superheated, and in the rear position if unsuperheated. Even if superheater elements had been removed from the boiler, the S-shaped blastpipe casting usually remained in place, and thus chimneys were in the forward position in such cases.

 

[Shed82CB]

any news on this? 

[Jeff Smith]

I will give an update with pictures shortly.  I have been building the tender using the Comet Dean Goods outside framed chassis and 7'6" /7'6" inside frame chassis, mated to the K's body.  And cab floor, etc.  Still haven't settled on the livery.

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

I will give an update with pictures shortly.  I have been building the tender using the Comet Dean Goods outside framed chassis and 7'6" /7'6" inside frame chassis, mated to the K's body.  And cab floor, etc.  Still haven't settled on the livery.

 

I look forward to seeing your model, as it seems you have hit the brief of a working EM or P4 wheel gauge for tenders, which I guess could be used with other makes of whitemetal kits

[Jeff Smith]

I will show the difference between the 43xx tender which just uses the Comet inside frame chassis inside the K's axle boxes and springs, and the Dean Goods where these were replaced with the Comet kit.

[Jeff Smith]

First picture is the 43xx tender with Comet inside frame chassis and K's tender shell with pillars (K's chassis spacers and additional washers) for mounting - this will give space for wheel-top pickups!

 

 

Now shown fully assembled.

 

 

This is the K's Dean Goods tender with the same Comet inside frame chassis assembled to the Comet Dean Goods outside chassis kit.  For both tenders the chassis have been built with fixed front axle and second and third compensated with central beam.  The kits have EM/P4 spacers and holes for compensation pivots but the pivot and beam is not included.

 

 

Side by side of both tenders.  the Dean Goods tender body was assembled then cut off just above the footplate and stuck onto the outside frame chassis.  Note the differing shovelling heights to match the loco footplate heights.

 

 

Progress so far with the whole kit, still some parts missing.

 

 

The upper backhead was in the kit but the lower part was missing to make way for a false floor to cover the K's motor.  The new motor arrangement did not need this space so a new floor, splashers and firebox doors were constructed from white metal and styrene.

 

 

Finally the chassis quartered and with brake gear fitted (Gibson plastic GWR brake hangers and brass strip).  A lesson learned here was care in fitting the flywheel.  The superglue grabbed before it was on far enough......impossible to move now, luckily still just about had clearance inside the body!

 

[Jeff Smith]

Just realised that there is a width difference between the loco footplate and the Comet tender.  The loco is in fact 3mm too wide......

[Jeff Smith]

An update.  Livery is black per comments on GWR.org.uk regarding the painting of some soon to be retired locos in the late 1920's, including some Dean Goods.  This is a fictitious loco due to K's adaptation of a Dean Goods into a representation of the 2361 Class.  I have ordered number plates for 2370 as I have a couple of pictures of it but don't know if it ever was black.  Pick-ups have been fitted but running was a bit haphazard, then I found a split outside crank (Gibson).  Still left to be fitted are the main springs but not until the crank is sorted and running improved.  Most of my recent locos have had two-stage gearboxes which this may have benefitted from.  I might yet upgrade with the Comet sprung chassis and two-stage g/b.....

 

[BR60103]

I just noticed this topic.

I have one of these kits in nearly untouched condition that I've had for xx years.

 

Is here any way to print a whole thread?

 

[Jeff Smith]

A superglue repair of the split outside crank seems to have done the trick, running seems ok now......

 

I should just add for anyone interested that it is brush painted with Vallejo Model Color black and a couple of brushed coats of Vallejo matt varnish.  A little black added to the varnish to tone down the transfers which are HMRS Methfix.  Buffer beams are Humbrol acrylic from the rail colour range.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Jeff Smith

[5050]

On 30/04/2021 at 16:43, Jeff Smith said:

A superglue repair of the split outside crank seems to have done the trick, running seems ok now......

I've never had any luck with the AG outside cranks, all the ones I've used have split. My thought is that on a wheel, the tyre provides an amount of 'compression' through the spokes when pressing the wheel onto the axles but outside cranks don't have this so they tend to split.  I generally make my own from 1/16" brass, drilled on the lathe for axle and crankpin holes and filed to shape to suit the loco.