coaches IRONCLAD LIVERIES

[vectislad]

I am planning to construct a former LWSR Ironclad push pull set as they appeared in the mid 1950's. Does anyone know what livery they would have carried, either former SR Malachite green or the BR non lined crimson?

[Kubes]

According to Mike King's book the answer is both! They were converted between 1948 and 1949. Apparently the earlier conversions were outshopped in malachite and the later ones in BR crimson either with or without lining. They ended up in BR SR green. Set 382 is pictured in lined crimson in 1949. 

Kubes

Edited July 19, 2020 by Kubes

[Kubes]

Oh and sets 381 and 383 were malachite green.

Kubes

[corneliuslundie]

You may find this book helpful. There is a lot of detail:

https://hmrs.org.uk/publications/books/books-in-print/southern-style-after-nationalisation-1948-1964.html

Jonathan

[D-A-T]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

You may find this book helpful. There is a lot of detail:

https://hmrs.org.uk/publications/books/books-in-print/southern-style-after-nationalisation-1948-1964.html

Jonathan

Do you know if this book covers the Isle of Wight in the detail given in the book’s synopsis?

[corneliuslundie]

There are references to the Isle of Wight in the Locomotives section but none in the Carriage, Goods stock and Structures sections.

Specifically there is discussion of different approaches to lettering. For example:

'Pure 'Sunshine' lettering included the internal line, blocking and highlights, but numerals did not have an internal line (see plates of the 'BRIT' painting and 30164, Pure Sunshine);

The Isle of Wight simplification omitted the internal line and highlights, but retained the blocking to the yellow face;

...'

About six references in all to the Island.

Jonathan

[The Johnster]

Coaches emerging from paint shops between 1/1/48 and 31/5/48 were in Southern Railway malachite green (sunshine) livery but with BR S prefixed (not suffixed yet) numbers in Southern Railway style.  From 1/6/48 non-ganwayed stock, which would have included push-pull sets gangwayed within the set, were painted unlined crimson with BR type Gill Sans numbering.  

 

The next change would be in 1950 when the first BR designed coaches were introduced; in order to avoid duplicate numbers a suffix was added to pre-BR design coaches, some of which were still being built at the time, to denote the region responsible for maintenance, S for Southern Region in this instance. 

 

Matters remained at this position until 1956, when greater regional autonomy following board level reorganisation allowed the SR to paint passenger stock in green again; there was some variety between malachite and a deeper colour, and this was the situation until the coaches were withdrawn from service.  Some may have had the first class denoted by yellow band at cantrail very late in their service.

 

Important to stress that this applies to coaches coming out of paint shops after overhaul; examples of previous liveries would be seen in service for a long time after a livery change, and you might find examples of Southern Railway coaches never being painted in the crimson livery, or crimson coaches carrying that livery until withdrawal in the early 60s.  Photographic evidence is best if it is available, but the above may be of some help if you have to 'guesstimate' and can find out when stock was overhauled and painted.