Jim Martin Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Hi I've been going through a 2006 issue of the"Freightmaster" freight timetable book, looking at services on the WCML between Warrington and Carlisle. There's a pair of EWS-operated trains, the 4M41 05:35 Mossend-Daventry and the 4S46 19:15 Daventry-Mossend, which are described as "fresh air express"; and I'm wondering why. Presumably, being class 4 trains means that they're intermodal (Enterprise freights ran as class 6) and I wondered if they might be trains that ran as empty flatcars because of unbalanced flows from north to south. If that was the case, though, why is there a train in each direction? Can anyone tell me what was special about these trains and where the name came from? Thanks Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 15 hours ago, Jim Martin said: Hi I've been going through a 2006 issue of the"Freightmaster" freight timetable book, looking at services on the WCML between Warrington and Carlisle. There's a pair of EWS-operated trains, the 4M41 05:35 Mossend-Daventry and the 4S46 19:15 Daventry-Mossend, which are described as "fresh air express"; and I'm wondering why. Presumably, being class 4 trains means that they're intermodal (Enterprise freights ran as class 6) and I wondered if they might be trains that ran as empty flatcars because of unbalanced flows from north to south. If that was the case, though, why is there a train in each direction? Can anyone tell me what was special about these trains and where the name came from? Thanks Jim I can easily imagine that the South-bound working might be lightly loaded, or even be a train of empty boxes. Otherwise, the only thing I can think of is that they are running empty to maintain the FOC's paths in both directions, in anticipation of future growth. It may be that, if the FOC doesn't use the paths for a given period, then they have to surrender them to Network Rail, allowing competitors to bid for them. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted July 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2020 Apparently Eddie Stobart in the early says established his business carrying new, empty tin cans to breweries for filling with beer, and was quite proud of building a business transporting canned fresh air. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2020 Dylan Thomas' wonderful 'Under Milk Wood' refers to the sound of a train carrying holes to Swansea. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bendall Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Fresh air express refers to any intermodal service running without or with very few containers. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2020 DRS 37059+37069 4L46 Daventry-Tilbury intermodal 10Apr06 fresh air express - also known as wagons loaded with glider fuel rev 37069_37059 4L46 Daventry-Tilbury 10Apr06 by Sarah S1ddons, on Flickr 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 6 hours ago, Ian Morgan said: Apparently Eddie Stobart in the early says established his business carrying new, empty tin cans to breweries for filling with beer, and was quite proud of building a business transporting canned fresh air. Cans full of of fresh air in one direction - then returned full of polluted carbon dioxide,I guess ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted July 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2020 In the US, BNSF ran empty intermodal or “bare table” trains around the system in times of slow traffic. It was seen as rolling storage and saved them time and resources in getting them back into traffic when times got better. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 Thanks to everyone for their replies. Modelling a lightly-loaded container train might be quite an interesting project. There's a lot of exposed underframe gubbins on container wagons. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) On 20/07/2020 at 17:21, The Johnster said: Dylan Thomas' wonderful 'Under Milk Wood' refers to the sound of a train carrying holes to Swansea. You sure about that? I don't recall it, and searching through the text the only mention of Swansea that turns up is a briefly-mentioned character called Billy Swansea. There's no mention of trains, or holes, in the entire text, as far as I can see. That said, I believe there have been a number of versions/adaptations of the work, and the original manuscript was lost (by Thomas himself, who left it in a pub!) so more than happy to be proved wrong. Edited July 22, 2020 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Maybe thinking about 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire ......... ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 20/07/2020 at 18:26, Metr0Land said: also known as wagons loaded with glider fuel In road haulage the variation I heard was 'Glider Engines'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I always thought it was the "Gatwick Express". About 8 passengers per 8 car set most of the time (before lockdown) - or at least thats what it looked like as they thunder through the often dangerously overcrowded platforms at East Croydon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 15 hours ago, Jim Martin said: Thanks to everyone for their replies. Modelling a lightly-loaded container train might be quite an interesting project. There's a lot of exposed underframe gubbins on container wagons. Jim & on that point have you ever seen a container train with every space filled up? If I have, I can't remember it. It is usual for a few container bays to be empty. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: & on that point have you ever seen a container train with every space filled up? If I have, I can't remember it. It is usual for a few container bays to be empty. The train from Spain to Dagenham is invariably full; so are many of the trains from the container ports to the terminals around the UK. Sadly, the 'export' trains are often very lightly loaded, and even when there are boxes, they may well be empty. There was a considerable traffic in scrap and 'recycling' to China, but ,of late, the Chinese have rightly become very picky about what they'll take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2020 17 hours ago, Jim Martin said: Thanks to everyone for their replies. Modelling a lightly-loaded container train might be quite an interesting project. There's a lot of exposed underframe gubbins on container wagons. Jim I’m looking forward to getting Ravensclyffe up and running again this week, should be the first opportunity to get my 25set of Bachmann Freightliner wagons out. Always loved seeing a completely empty set of flats, or even better just a single box right at the back Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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