Bowers Row, British Oak and other Pepper/Hargreaves locomotives

[Ruston]

Such as this one. Class 11 12099.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p172403554/hE7372ADA#he7372ada

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/img/s/v-10/p3879152346-4.jpg

I've never really taken much interest in BR's 350HP types so what's the difference between that and an 08? What would I need to do to an 08 model to make it into that?

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Ruston

[Adam]

The key variations are 4' as opposed to 4' 6" wheels, and a cab roof of a slightly flatter profile. There's a conversion of a Hornby 08 here: http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb154.html and here: http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb153.html.

 

Adam

[Ruston]

Thanks, Adam. That looks like way too much effort. I'll go for 08016 instead.

[Mark Saunders]

Wait for the forthcoming Heljan rtr one!

[Sandhole]

The Guv'nor is a Kitmaster body, modified on an Impetus chassis.
The Impetus 08 chassis was, to my mind, the best 08 chassis kit and easily modified to the other types.
Sorry, all of these, you can't readily get.
I have been modelling a long time.

[03060]

5 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

Wait for the forthcoming Heljan rtr one!

 

As Mark says, 12099 in Orange livery is one of the livery options being proposed....but not expected until 2022 !

 

The cab front windows are also rectangular on the Class 11.

 

I bought a tin of orange spray paint from Halfords last year to spray up my 7mm Bachmann Brassworks 08 (with the dodgy cab profile, etc) in this livery as I don't know what else to do with it (lovely runner) ....but haven't had the bottle to do it yet.

Edited July 20, 2020 by 03060
More waffle added.

[Barclay]

I modified a Kitmaster kit to make mine back in the late 80's, but I have to admit I didn't know about the cab roof profile back then - the LMS design has a simple arc. I did know about the wheel diameter but chose to ignore it. I too have been looking at that clever conversion on the EM gauge 1970's website and the plan is to remedy the roof and build a new chassis using 4' tender wheels instead of the Gibson 08 wheels it has at the moment.

 

 

 

 

[Regularity]

The smaller wheels lead to a lower footplate height, and the buffer beam will be shallower by 3” (scale) with the “removed” piece between the footplate and the buffers.

It isn’t really a case of “removing”, so much as deleting the addition made by BR.

 

The LMS/EE design was adopted with odd modifications by other companies, notably the Southern who needed to incorporate more clearance from the cab steps above the 3rd rail, hence an extra 6” on the wheel diameter. This meant that the footplate was raised by 3”, as was the rest of the bodywork, hence the deeper buffer beams but also the need for a different cab roof. As know, when it came to the “standard” shunters, they also required train air brakes as well as vacuum, and a higher top speed for dodging between passenger trains on the mainline, as well as running trips.

 

The LMS shunters didn’t have train brakes, either. They were allocated class 11 under tops, but were withdrawn before renumbering. At that time, they were numbered in the 12XXX series, leading to some writers erroneously referring to them as “class 12”.

[Barclay]

You have helped answer a question of mine - the body will be 1mm lower with 4' wheels, but the buffers the same height as they are, effectively higher on the buffer beam? Is the cab roof higher at the centre, and is the flatter top profile of the 08 necessary to keep within gauge as the body is 3" higher? 

 

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

You have helped answer a question of mine - the body will be 1mm lower with 4' wheels, but the buffers the same height as they are, effectively higher on the buffer beam?

 

Yes. It’s an optical illusion!

 

Not exactly sure about the cab issue: off the top of my head, that’s probably the case, but I am away from my reference materials and can’t check - there may be some outline drawings on-line.

[Regularity]

This may help:

http://www.p4newstreet.com/some-more-plastic-bashing.html

[Sandhole]

I just remembered.
Somewhere I have a part built brass kit that was released in the 1980's.
I got it in a fit of chemo shopping therapy.
I got it with a crazy idea of making a class 11.
The fact it is a brass kit, leaves it open to modifying and soldering the body.
I think I can sort the chassis out.
Now I have to remember where in my pile of boxes I've put the kit.

 

[Barclay]

Modern Outline Kits, as per MRJ no.8 ? I hope it can climb over matchsticks !

[Regularity]

8 hours ago, Barclay said:

I hope it can climb over matchsticks !

Look carefully at that photo, and you can see that the MRJ model didn't quite manage it!

[5050]

Guess who's got a Kitmaster '08' already built..................................

 

I used a Crownline chassis to go under my extensively 'improved' Lima 08 and it went together quite well.  A good alternative to the Impetus one if you can find one.

[Barclay]

I got a Crownline chassis kit recently which will receive 4' wheels and go under the LMS shunter. The existing chassis will go with a modified Hornby body as an early 08 in BR blue and then I have a modern Hornby 08 body which is far too good to waste so that will need a scratchbuilt chassis, luckily only the 'works' as the Hornby outside frames are quite good.

 

These things breed !

[PenrithBeacon]

On 20/07/2020 at 21:23, Sandhole said:

The Guv'nor is a Kitmaster body, modified on an Impetus chassis.
The Impetus 08 chassis was, to my mind, the best 08 chassis kit and easily modified to the other types.
Sorry, all of these, you can't readily get.
I have been modelling a long time.

Unfortunately not available any more. Both the Bachmann and Hornby 08s have chassis issues and I would love to see one of the etched kit manufacturers do a chassis kit for these.

[Michael Edge]

I had just finished doing much of the work on this when the announcement of an rtr model appeared so if anyone is interested here is my basic drawing. The 08 was considerably different in many respects due to the larger wheels required by the SR (to keep the coupling rods well away from the 3rd rail) and more restricted BR loading gauge.

LMS EE 350hp 0-6-0DE 2.pdf

This drawing was made from BR GA and some detail drawings.

[Barclay]

Mike even if you don't do a full kit,  I reckon a chassis kit along the lines of the old Crownline and Impetus kits would still go down very well.

[Regularity]

On 21/07/2020 at 08:30, Barclay said:

the LMS design has a simple arc

Drawing appeared in Model Railways, April 1976.

[Michael Edge]

Not my drawing - they were Carter's if I remember correctly and most of those come with a health warning.

[Sandhole]

On 24/07/2020 at 14:36, Barclay said:

Mike even if you don't do a full kit,  I reckon a chassis kit along the lines of the old Crownline and Impetus kits would still go down very well.

I would second that Mike.
I like your chassis, they are buildable by me.
That means anybody can build 'em.

[Ruston]

I got this Bachmann 03 from 5050 as a body only. The chassis is my own and from a Mainline 03 that I had years ago but doesn't run very well. it needs poking with a finger to get it moving and although it runs nicely in one direction, it doesn't in the other. I'll either build my own chassis for it, or get a High Level chassis kit.

 

I can either paint it orange, as 03149 at Bowers Row, or scruffy faded BR blue as 03037, at British Oak. The other option is the BR livery but in dark blue, which 03037 was repainted in at some time during its stay at British Oak.

 

I had this bought for my birthday, recently.

3F 47445 as working at British Oak. Bachmann did this as a Collectors' Club special. I hate these so-called factory weathering jobs. They're crap. It had also had an oversize lamp glued on the front of the smokebox and glue had run down the front of the smokebox. Another modification by its previous owner were some fire irons that had been glued to the tank top and painted silver! It had no couplings on it but I would only have thrown them in the bin if it had.

It has now had the vac brake equipment removed from the boiler and the pipework and hoses removed from the buffer beams. I stripped the weathering fro the tanks by using T-cut on a cotton bud. When the weathering had been removed the tanks looked far too yellow so I sprayed them with an orange colour. The whole lot was given a dirty wash and some areas have been treated with weathering powders. ?the fire irons were cleaned up, painted and weathered rusty and refitted. All it needs to finish it, as far as appearance goes, is the sandbox on the right hand side. I believe the sand box may have come from a Hudswell Clarke that was scrapped on site at British Oak in 1967.

 

I managed to file and sand the glue from the front of the smokebox but the lamp iron had been destroyed by the previous owner, so I fitted a lamp. I won't be doing anything with the chassis as it runs beautifully.

 

[Corbs]

The orange looks so much more akin to the photos of the real thing.

[Corbs]

Digging around in my memories I believe that there was a plan for one of the preserved jinties to appear at a Foxfield gala as 47445 in black/orange as its final appearance before overhaul, but there perhaps was not the support for it?