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My guess is that this subject is done to death but is Kappa board a brand name for generic foamboard?

 

Foamboard as A1 sheets is relatively easy to obtain at Hobbycraft whilst Kappa board seems only to be available in relatively expensive bulk packs.

 

Railway Modeller and Morill featured the joys of Kappa and as lockdown continues, a ultra-slim version of an elevated Minories is looking as a possibility. The design is a mirror image of Phil's adaptation of Minories and it has lost the kickback siding in order to fit inside the 110x22cm footprint of the 77ltr 'tough box', three modules should be enough including a fiddleyard.

 

terminus1.jpg.1261812de52008c2176467695ba5e9e1.jpg

 

77Lbox_500.jpg.1e54cc8af04b0dbd7a1ac6846f45b262.jpg

 

 

Cheers and Stay Safe

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8 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

My guess is that this subject is done to death but is Kappa board a brand name for generic foamboard?

 

Foamboard as A1 sheets is relatively easy to obtain at Hobbycraft whilst Kappa board seems only to be available in relatively expensive bulk packs.

 

Railway Modeller and Morill featured the joys of Kappa and as lockdown continues, a ultra-slim version of an elevated Minories is looking as a possibility. The design is a mirror image of Phil's adaptation of Minories and it has lost the kickback siding in order to fit inside the 110x22cm footprint of the 77ltr 'tough box', three modules should be enough including a fiddleyard.

 

terminus1.jpg.1261812de52008c2176467695ba5e9e1.jpg

 

77Lbox_500.jpg.1e54cc8af04b0dbd7a1ac6846f45b262.jpg

 

 

Cheers and Stay Safe

Generally yes, but note there are a variety of kappa boards, some plain card facings, some plastic coated card facings, aluminium facings and there ae others. so depending on what you get, then gluing and painting may need different approaches..

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On 30/07/2020 at 10:26, Jack Benson said:

My guess is that this subject is done to death but is Kappa board a brand name for generic foamboard?

 

Foamboard as A1 sheets is relatively easy to obtain at Hobbycraft whilst Kappa board seems only to be available in relatively expensive bulk packs.

 

Railway Modeller and Morill featured the joys of Kappa and as lockdown continues, a ultra-slim version of an elevated Minories is looking as a possibility. The design is a mirror image of Phil's adaptation of Minories and it has lost the kickback siding in order to fit inside the 110x22cm footprint of the 77ltr 'tough box', three modules should be enough including a fiddleyard.

 

terminus1.jpg.1261812de52008c2176467695ba5e9e1.jpg

 

77Lbox_500.jpg.1e54cc8af04b0dbd7a1ac6846f45b262.jpg

 

 

Cheers and Stay Safe

Good evening Jack

Kapa is the registered trade name for a brand of premium foam-boards  https://www.display.3acomposites.com/kapa.html

but there are others. Kappa board (with two Ps) seems to have become a generic name for foam-boards (There is a Smurfit-Kappa company that produces packaging but their range doesnt appear to include foam-boards)  it seems to be rather like Gaffer Tape (generic) and Gaffa Tape (brand name)

 

The variations in premium foam-boards are significant in the display and exhibition industry particular around the printing processes used on them and the makers recommend KAPA®graph foam board  for model making (Some years ago Kapa sent me a box of sample boards that I still have but KAPA®graph wasn't in their range then)

For our purposes I don't think that it makes a huge difference and I've always found the generic foam boards sold by Hobbycraft and office supply shops perfectly satisfactory.  I use the thinner boards for 1:87 scale buildings but I've been using foam board in my baseboards for years. So long as it doesn't get soaked- the boards that form the bread of the sandwich are afer all card- it seems to be a very stable material

 

If you asked nicely and didn't mind there being printing on them, you used often to be able to get hold of large sheets of foam board  in various thicknesses when trade shows were being taken down but that source has obviously dried up for now.

 

The 77L Really Useful "Christmas Tree" box looks very useful and it occurs to me that a 1 metre by 30 cm baseboard with its backscene would fit inside one on its side very well. Will you be able to get all three modules into  a single box? 

I've found that Really Useful boxes really live up to their name and I've used them to stored books and magazines in a damp garage for years without any problems.

 

Edited by Pacific231G
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  • RMweb Gold

Hi,

 

'The 77L Really Useful "Christmas Tree" box looks very useful and it occurs to me that a 1 metre by 30 cm baseboard with its backscene would fit inside one on its side very well. Will you be able to get all three modules into  a single box?'

 

Each module would be assigned to an individual 77ltr box.

 

Rather than store the modules on their bases, it is intended to use the 22cm width of the tough box as the height of the module and the 28cm deep of the tough box as the width of each module. Naurally, the 112cm length remains common - so basically the modules are stored on the sides in the tough boxes.

 

The only concern is the intrinsic robust quality of the 5mm foamboard sold on the High Street, We did encounter a proprietary close cell foamboard used for trade show displays that was infinitely tougher, far harder to cut and expensive but Keith Harcourt's articles in MORILL and RM seem to indicate that the cheaper 5mm foamboard is acceptable.

 

Cheers and Stay Safe

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jack Benson said:

Hi,

 

'The 77L Really Useful "Christmas Tree" box looks very useful and it occurs to me that a 1 metre by 30 cm baseboard with its backscene would fit inside one on its side very well. Will you be able to get all three modules into  a single box?'

 

Each module would be assigned to an individual 77ltr box.

 

Rather than store the modules on their bases, it is intended to use the 22cm width of the tough box as the height of the module and the 28cm deep of the tough box as the width of each module. Naurally, the 112cm length remains common - so basically the modules are stored on the sides in the tough boxes.

 

The only concern is the intrinsic robust quality of the 5mm foamboard sold on the High Street, We did encounter a proprietary close cell foamboard used for trade show displays that was infinitely tougher, far harder to cut and expensive but Keith Harcourt's articles in MORILL and RM seem to indicate that the cheaper 5mm foamboard is acceptable.

 

Cheers and Stay Safe

 

 

 

Thanks Jack

Using those Really Useful Xmas tree boxes could be a bit of a breakthrough for me as storing layouts is always a challenge. With those I could store modules in my somewhat damp garage (where I already store books in Really Useful boxes with no problems at all) 

 

I've made baseboards with the cheaper sort of foamboard and, so long as you use sensible engineering structures based on its inherent strengths and weaknesss (foam board is a lousy plank but makes very strong girders though that's true of plywood as well). it seems to work well. Baseboard joins were the main challenge and for my small H0 layout, which is horizontally hinged, I used a basic timber frame but a surface of foam-board with additional strengthening members also from foam board. It's lasted well for about twenty years without any sagging though the layout is table top rather than being supported on its own legs. The downside iof foamboard is that the card surfaces are very easily dented and damaged so if I was using it for side members I think I'd laminate ordinary mounting card or just craft card onto the vulnerable outside surfaces .  The upside is that you can build a strong baseboard in an evening with basic craft tools and PVA- no sawing, hammering, or drilling required.

Edited by Pacific231G
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12 hours ago, sir douglas said:

ive not heard of a foam board called that but in japanese mythology, the Kappa is a monster that lives in water. ive just looked it up, the board is KAPA with 1 "P"

not every where it is..

https://www.boardprintingcompany.co.uk/kappa-boards-printing/

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David,

Just a thought, in order to protect baseboard joints, why not use a thin ply ‘wrapper’ for the boards suitably strengthened with thicker ply at the critical baseboard interfaces? No need for fancy tools, thin model aircraft ply cuts with a Stanley and bonds with PVA.

 

Also bond 3mm ply bases onto the foamboard  for turnout motors and such.

 

My SMS module is not structural, no heavy transformers, accessory decoders, DDC CPUs, etc. everything is remote and connected with DIN connectors. Similarly, lighting is featherweight Led strip with a wallwart providing the power. 
 

Freezer’s original design was 7’0”x12” just a very small tad* larger than 112x29cm but use the trackplan on an elevated set of arches and something slightly more interesting might be possible.

 

This plan is CJ Freezer’s to be shared and we should be grateful to Cyril.

2BCFD08D-AC90-4F2A-B971-E66B3E336028.jpeg.8868bde5c33b08f7fb959e8d746ed389.jpeg

 


 

Cheers and Stay Safe

Edited by Jack Benson
Added a piccy.
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On 31/07/2020 at 11:17, Jack Benson said:

David,

Just a thought, in order to protect baseboard joints, why not use a thin ply ‘wrapper’ for the boards suitably strengthened with thicker ply at the critical baseboard interfaces? No need for fancy tools, thin model aircraft ply cuts with a Stanley and bonds with PVA.

 

Also bond 3mm ply bases onto the foamboard  for turnout motors and such.

 

My SMS module is not structural, no heavy transformers, accessory decoders, DDC CPUs, etc. everything is remote and connected with DIN connectors. Similarly, lighting is featherweight Led strip with a wallwart providing the power. 
 

Freezer’s original design was 7’0”x12” just a very small tad* larger than 112x29cm but use the trackplan on an elevated set of arches and something slightly more interesting might be possible.

 

This plan is CJ Freezer’s to be shared and we should be grateful to Cyril.

2BCFD08D-AC90-4F2A-B971-E66B3E336028.jpeg.8868bde5c33b08f7fb959e8d746ed389.jpeg

 


 

Cheers and Stay Safe

Hi Jack

We ought to be aware that though the track arrangement can certainly be shared, the actual artwork of the published versions are still someone's copyright (In this case Peco Publications) 

 

I have used thin model aircraft ply as a layer to protect the external foam-board layer  from dents etc. but it is fairly expensive stuff so I think mounting board or card might be a suitable alternative.  I agree completely about the need for ply bases for point motors. I've done that with manual point levers on my H0 layout and with Fulgurex motors on my H0m layout. 

 

Plan No. SP35 isn't quite Cyril Freezer's original design. That was in RM in 1957 (the same plans were published in the earlier editions of 60 plans for small railways) and for OO was only 6ft 8 ins x 9 inches. The throat pointwork only occupied about 2ft 6ins of the right hand board so seems to have been based on two foot radius points*.

Cyril clearly decided that was a bit too tight as his own published versions of the plan went to three foot radius points and the size also grew, first to 7ft by 1ft and then to 8ft long. With three foot radius points the basic Minories pointwork does fit fairly comfortably onto a metre long board (39inches) so it would certainly fit onto one of your planned modules. In the SP35 version he'd added the kickback siding but that does takes the length needed with three foot radius points to about 42 inches. I'm not sure what the kickback siding really adds to the plan unless it's developed into a goods yard with platform three used as the goods headshunt. 

I think it might be worth following Cyril's suggestion and having an extension to add to the left hand board. Provided it's not too wide I've also come to the conclusion that a metre long  portable baseboard is a lot easier to handle- especially up  and down stairs- than the traditional four foot length and would of course fit into those Christmas Tree boxes.   28cms or 11 ins is quite wide enough for Minories and will even just about take a goods headshunt alongside the no 3 platform track and still keep the platform widths legal. 

 

*It didn't quite make sense to me that Minories was originally designed for two foot radius points when Pecoway and Indivdulay points for OO were all three foot radius. However, the 1957 plan was actually drawn as a five foot long folding layout for the  then brand new TT-3 and Peco's points for that were eighteen inch radius which when enlarged for  OO become two foot radius. 

 

 

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David,

 

The Minories image was drawn from a Google search with no indication of origin, whether Peco Publications or not. It is good to know that there so many amateur legal copyright experts in our midst that are willing to demonstrate their extensive knowledge. It is appreciated.

 

Keith Harcourt and his excellent Kappaboard Railway article RM 1/2000 and Morill 6/1996 provides a number of solutions to questions to the practical use of foamboard, not the least external protection. His preferred method was Formica offcuts but this product is becoming scare and very thin ply is easier to source, at least for me.  He does mention turnout motor bases and arrives at the same conclusion of a stable ply/composite base bonded to the foamboard. 

Where I do divert from his advice is the actual structural design however I have no intention of demonstrating my ignorance of such matters to a wider audience, unfortunately Cranfield was a long time ago.
 

The key to the future project remains the use of readily available 77ltr ‘tough boxes’  which protect the contents both during transit and storage (a damp West Country garage)  moreover, they partially solve the question of support at shows. By personal preference, exhibiting is done whilst seated, very much in the style of smaller ‘salon’ meetings and the layout would be placed on provided trestle tables atop the empty transit boxes that have been covered with the obligatory subtle cloth. Viewers are encouraged to sit and engage with the operators, other viewers can gawp as usual before moving on to something more interesting.  
 

As for the actual trackplan, Minories was merely used as a well known example of what can be done, whilst we have an agenda to present a more intimate presentation of a 50s street scene with the track partially hidden from view before it arrives at a very tiny coal yard replete with a vestigial wharf. 
 

Finally, the use of ‘Kapa’ or ‘Kappa’, as the first encounter with the material was Keith Harcourt’s excellent articles were entitled Kappaboard Layouts, I suppose that is the origin of the error. However, having spoken to Keith, no legal action has yet been enjoined therefore the term is acceptable, my source is the local Hobbycraft but Hunt Graphics, Basildon, Essex, SS14 3BG, used to be suppliers of a wide variety of foamcore boards. 

 

Sorry to have rattled on but as the OP was Kappa Board and there has been a drift towards Minories, I thought it worthwhile brining it back on track.

 

Cheers and Stay Safe.

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

Dear All,

Forgive this somewhat late response, but can I confirm what Jack says above.  I came across what was then called Kappaboard in the 1980s as it was in use in the graphics and exhibition industry with which I had a connection.  I used it for layout building and called it what I knew it as, but sort of foam cored board will do for railway modelling. I have built a layout from the used A0 advertising boards which Morrisons et al use to hang from the roof of supermarkets. Apart from having to cover up the chicken advert it was fine and having been silk screen printed was a bit tougher than new boards.  The fact that I got them for nothing when the promotion changed was even better.  Happy Modelling!

Keith Harcourt

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On 14/10/2021 at 17:35, Ernest_Lemon said:

Dear All,

Forgive this somewhat late response, but can I confirm what Jack says above.  I came across what was then called Kappaboard in the 1980s as it was in use in the graphics and exhibition industry with which I had a connection.  I used it for layout building and called it what I knew it as, but sort of foam cored board will do for railway modelling. I have built a layout from the used A0 advertising boards which Morrisons et al use to hang from the roof of supermarkets. Apart from having to cover up the chicken advert it was fine and having been silk screen printed was a bit tougher than new boards.  The fact that I got them for nothing when the promotion changed was even better.  Happy Modelling!

Keith Harcourt

Dear Keith

I remember your orignal Kappaboard layout article and was much inspired by it. I also came across foamcore used by scenery designers in the theatre and TV (I was, and to some extent still am, a media professional and was a TV producer/director for much of my career though my degree is in engineering) I think it was finding some foam core stage set models that had been bashed around in the back of a cupboard for over a decade  yearsbut were still in prefect conditiion that really convinced me. What I reallly liked was how easy and quick it it was to make really strong but very light structural shapes with nothing more than a steel rule, pencil, knife and a bottle of PVA. 

 

I've used foam core board a lot in my layouts and have been known to build a  complete baseboard in an evening. More recently though I've tended to  combine it with timber. My current H0 layout is a horizontally folding taper (narrower  at the throat end, that folds to a rectangle with the backscene boards forming three sides of a box.) so I used a faitly conventional timber frame to give strength around the hinge but the rest of the baseboard is all foam core. I built it well over twenty years ago and it's still dimensionally stable with the tracks lining up perfectly. I found the other good thing about foam core board is that even if the basc framing is timber, it's very easy to use it to add additional bracing wherever required (and move it when it gets in the way of a point motor!) and if you have even a very basic undestanding of things like I beams and box girders, which I more or less remember from my studies in the 1970s)  it will make very strong structures. I also use it for H0 buildings and it's great for those. 

 

Jack, If you're still following this how did you get on with 77L  Really Useful Christmas tree boxes?. I'm still very tempted by them as I too have a damp garage that is full of RUBs storing books and magzines that never show the slightest trace of damp.   

Edited by Pacific231G
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Well, I’m going to but in here, and I hope everyone will forgive that, to say “hello” to Mr Lemon/Harcourt, and wish him all the very best.

 

Long time since we spoke!

 

Kevin (formerly of Beacon)

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