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Met & Widened Lines Around mid-1930s


MarshLane
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Recently mentioned on another group maybe on here was the GWR through service from Staines West to the city. This was not apparently well patronised and was abandoned during WW2. 

 

There's been a number of discussions on the District Dave website on goods workings on the Widened Lines and on the FB Metropolitan Railway past and present group. the eastbound Widened Line was electrified on 4 rails for relatively short period.

 

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Theres an odd bit of memory, about the Ray Street Grid-Iron where the Met crosses over the Widened lines.immediately north of Faringdon,   I recall with certainty that there was some sort of headshunt from the LNER depot at Faringdon which terminated at buffers on the same level as LT ,right under the road above, and that road itself was remarkable,  only used by trolleybuses  i.e. not the main road right alongside.  

And the memory is of an 08 shunter at those buffer stops.  I've been told I'm barmy,  can anyone confirm|?

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The stub of the connection to the sidings was latterly used as the ‘hole’ in which an 08 lurked, ready to pounce on the rear of a goods train and give it a shove up the hill. In earlier days the banker stub was a bit further on, on the other side.

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Do you mean this (source: https://alchetron.com/Widened-Lines)?

 

image.png.6419a94fd1815920b81348236614932c.png

 

There is a track plan here: https://www.harsig.org/Metropolitan.php/ (Kings Cross to Aldgate 1958). The goods depot closed in 1956 and isn't shown on the 1958 plan. I have seen various older track plans, but nothing immediately prior to closure. However, there appears to have been at least one headshunt in approximately this position in earlier years, linked directly to the goods depot and not accessible from the Widened Lines.

 

The bridge is Clerkenwell Road, and on the left is Farringdon Road. Farringdon Road was certainly used by trolleybuses, but I don't know that they had a separate roadway. I would not have thought there was room.

 

 

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Response to post Tuesday at 21:22:

Farringdon image shows the Clerkenwell Road bridge and just behind it, the smaller Vine Street bridge.  Trolleybuses, and trams before them, ran along Clerkenwell Road and also ran on Farringdon Road [famous for its kerbside book stalls], parallel to the railway on the left of the image.  The picture must be dated from mid1970s-1980s and sometime in that era and before, I can recall a diesel shunting loco on the remaining siding in question.  

Below signal OH28 there is the unused and partly covered single aspect with its yellow cowl and diamond backplate, a relic of an early but never used platform emergency stop installation for one-person operation.

 

There is a good article on the GNR-LNER goods depot in HMRS journal Volume 22-1 for 2015 January-March.  This includes a layout plan published in The Engineer 1894/11/03 showing two parallel short sidings, the one closest to the retaining wall being longer, seeming to end just under the Clerkenwell Road bridge.
There is a similar archived GNR plan from the 19th century [in LT's set of Metropolitan drawings] for an hydraulic pipe run across the area in question to GNR stables on the other side of the line.  This shows two sidings also, but the siding nearest the wall is shorter, and the other goes into the pumping installation, under the bridge.  

 

Photographs in the Britain from Above collection show the area in 1920 and 1946-1948, potentially more useful when considering the need for 1930s information.   Earlier images are not sufficiently clear but a 1940s view give clues on the sidings which appear to stop short of the Clerkenwell Road bridge.  


Image 1947/09/06:   https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW010076
Good view looking along the railway, away from the City termini.  
The siding against the retaining wall has been truncated, and I'd speculate that this might have been done at some time in the 1930s or during war years.  I believe that the building that rises between Clerkenwell Road and Vine Street bridges is part of the GNR hydraulic system pump station, maybe housing the accumulator.  The nearer chimney and building at its base is also part of the hydraulic pump station.  It could be that the sidings had served as a yard headshunt and to hold banking locos, also to service the pumping site, and maybe this latter function had changed or ended hence the truncation.

There are useful images in the 'London Picture Archive' too.


 

Edited by Engineer
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Link to the Farringdon layout plan from 'The Engineer' 23/11/1894, as mentioned above:

https://basilicafields.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/farringdon_map_med.jpg

(I think it comes from the 'London Reconnections' blog which has some articles on the subject. For some reason, any pictures do not load in the articles but they show up in a Google image search)

The issue of 'The Engineer' is on Grace's Guide but requires registration etc, so have not tried it yet:

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1894/11/23

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I shall follow this with interest.  Being a Londoner and having used the Underground extensively, commuting for 5 years to Aldersgate Street Barbican, and having watched Thameslink Tunnels being brought back into use, I was quite old, and surprised to learn that freight was carried, so I am fascinated by all this.  I doubt I have any information to help, but I do remember standing on a platform at Kings Cross that was open to the air, and not the ones as you first go in.  When I checked dates of platforms closing and compared that to my memories it did not work, perhaps I was younger than I thought.

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Morning all,

This one of the things I love above rmWeb, is that a thread runs, some fascinating information comes out and then it naturally peters out, then out of the blue, bursts back into life again and more info comes out.

 

Thanks to all for your input over the years, its a fascinating input and thanks to @chris p bacon for the heads up on the Farringdon book.  Worth joining the society just for that I think!  

 

Rich

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3 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

The society published this a couple of years ago.

 

https://www.gnrsociety.com/home-page/shop/farringdon/

 

I probably ought to get a copy.  I used Farringdon quite a lot when working in offices nearby. 

 

I don't know whether the books mentions it, but the station had a cat to keep down the vermin and it was popular with passengers.  When it vanished, it was simply assumed that cat had lost a fight with a train, but it reappeared after a little while and the station staff were asked what had happened.  It seems that it was found in Aberdeen still wearing a collar saying where it belonged, so it came back in the cab of one of the night sleepers which were still running to Kings Cross.

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I used to "enhance my knowledge" of the Underground in the mid to late 1960s when I should have been going to (bunking off) and witnessed not only the construction of the new Met and Widened Lines tunnels on the new alignment, but the 08 on the loco spur on the "down" Widened Lines. When the line to Holborn Viaduct was closed some time in the late 1960s the LT signals were still lit on the Snow Hill tunnel alignment as it was easier to leave them guarding the trackbed than removing them! they were eventually taken out in the early 1970s when I was a guard on the District. We used to work Saturday and Bank holiday extensions of the Wimbledon-Edgware road services to Liverpool Street, Moorgate and Aldgate.

 

Having recently read a book on London's Main Line Railways during WW2, the Snow Hill line and Widened Lines were extremely busy as one of the cross-London routes. Up to 10 freights an hour would pass through, meaning that passenger services were withdrawn in their entirety and not re-introduced until the advent of Thameslink in the 1980s. 

 

I was also fortunate to have worked at Kings Cross as a secondman from 1967 to 1978 and worked trains from the suburbs to Moorgate until closure of the line. The 08 at Farringdon was manned by Hornsey men until that depot closed, when KX men took it over. It was mainly used for banking trains up to Blackfriars, but was sometimes called to bank trains to Kings Cross if one had stalled on Hotel Curve. It was a struggle getting a 31 to lift 6 block-enders away from the curved platform at KX sometimes.

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Does anyone have any idea what the trailing spur on the westbound Metropolitan line is for?  It's on the map on the Basilica Fields website.  The turnout is under the Vine St bridge and it appears to run all the way back towards Farringdon almost as far as the 25 mph speed limit sign in the April 5th post.

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Can only speculate, no good answers.  The plan in question was published in 1894.  A Metropolitan Railway plan of the area dated 1927 shows no siding.  The London Picture Archive gives a helpful interpolation, with a 1906 image looking down from Turnmill Street and showing the Clerkenwell Road bridge:

 

https://www.londonpicturearchive.org.uk/view-item?key=SXsiUCI6eyJ2YWx1ZSI6ImZhcnJpbmdkb24iLCJvcGVyYXRvciI6MSwiZnV6enlQcmVmaXhMZW5ndGgiOjMsImZ1enp5TWluU2ltaWxhcml0eSI6MC43NSwibWF4U3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMiOjMsImFsd2F5c1N1Z2dlc3QiOm51bGx9LCJGIjoiZXlKMElqcGJNVjE5In0&pg=103&WINID=1651867064809#mf_fV1O141oAAAGAmvLtHw/63226

 

The electrified track of the Metropolitan is just visible to the lower right, the Widened Lines further left and below.  The vacant space adjacent the electrified track is where the map's siding would have been.  There is still some space there today.  

Speculation could be that the siding was present up to the electrification era, early 1900s.  There isn't an obvious source or destination of traffic so perhaps it was a 'bolt hole' siding, handy for stowing a few vehicles or resting an engine for a short spell.

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Remember the Basillica Fields plan only show the GNR side of the station, it doesn't show the Met Railway "main" (now Circle/H&C) platforms. There was a Met Railway goods depot on the north east (outer rail) side that disappeared under the Vine Street bridge. There's been a couple of pictures of Met electric locos backing wagons into there. Wagons' once "under cover" were shunted by horse to the various sidings under Turnmill Street.

 

One can only speculate on the siding that appears to merge with the "inner rail" line under Vine street. Maybe a left-over from the original Met Railway layout when it was dual-gauge operated by the GWR from opening.

 

Banking locos would be used in either direction, the climb from Farringdon to Snow Hill was quite steep, from 40' below river level to 30' above river level in about half a mile! And towards Kings Cross, the steep curved climb round the Hotel Curve could be "challenging" and would often need a banker. There's been some interesting titbits about that on the Kings Cross loco group on FB.

 

 

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I’ve managed to grab the centre of the Historic England photo:

 

658348D6-0650-4896-B6C6-D9CC2BE2FE17.thumb.png.2b492b602488472bd09838a5c5b87eb4.png

 

there are problems with both of my suggestions as to what the little arched roof building is used for.  AFAIK there wasn’t a basement below the track level and the buildings across the road look like shops with accommodation above.

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To me, it looks like a covered loading bay leading into arches under the road, but if it is, it isn’t obvious to me where good would emerge from it …… cellars leading to a wine merchants on the other side of the road?

 

Another possibility is that it is a wagon examination/repair point, maybe with lifting beam under the roof to allow axle-boxes and even wheel-sets to be changed. Basic wagon repair facilities were common at major goods depots/yards, but most that I’ve seen pictures of are more primitive.

Edited by Nearholmer
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Link to 1951 OS 1:1250 Map

Screenshot_20220614-163239_Chrome.thumb.jpg.f1f41ef040e9fd90208c32dfd68f644e.jpg

 

I wondered if it was just simply a small shed, to give a bit of cover for unloading vans?

I'm a bit unsure on the perspective too - is the road actually raised to level with the top of the wall (with space underneath) or is the wall all that there is i.e. the road is at the same level as the rail yard, with the wall just a divider? I know the running lines dive down quite steeply to go under Clerkenwell Road

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3 hours ago, keefer said:

Link to 1951 OS 1:1250 Map

Screenshot_20220614-163239_Chrome.thumb.jpg.f1f41ef040e9fd90208c32dfd68f644e.jpg

 

I wondered if it was just simply a small shed, to give a bit of cover for unloading vans?

I'm a bit unsure on the perspective too - is the road actually raised to level with the top of the wall (with space underneath) or is the wall all that there is i.e. the road is at the same level as the rail yard, with the wall just a divider? I know the running lines dive down quite steeply to go under Clerkenwell Road

 

Not quiet the top of the wall, more like 4 foot.  At the squarish building on your map,  according to the description of the building on the GNR warehouse, the road is 20 feet above the track bed, so it could be unloading under the road.  I like that idea.

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Just a wild guess, but the station is very close to Smithfield market which would be serviced by meat vans.  Presumably the meat vans would need cleaning out, disinfecting etc?  I don't think they would have wanted to do that at the underground sidings at the  - did they haul them out to Faringdon and clean them there?  A job that didn't need road access.  The opens prsumably just supplies used at the station.

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On 14/06/2022 at 12:37, Penrhos1920 said:

I’ve managed to grab the centre of the Historic England photo:

 

658348D6-0650-4896-B6C6-D9CC2BE2FE17.thumb.png.2b492b602488472bd09838a5c5b87eb4.png

 

there are problems with both of my suggestions as to what the little arched roof building is used for.  AFAIK there wasn’t a basement below the track level and the buildings across the road look like shops with accommodation above.

 

Having now unearthed my copy of "The GNR at Farringdon" by Allan Sibley - see Chris P Bacon's post of 9th April 2022, above - I can advise that the centre-spread of the plan of the GNR Goods Depot at Farringdon (dated 1894) and the associated photograph (1952) looking east from the Clerkenwell Road overbridge clearly show the purpose of the open sided shelter with curved roof. It is actually the location of the main drive capstan and machinery for the rope system used to shunt wagons into and out of the Basement level sidings under the "City Goods Station - which stretched right down under Charterhouse Street and the west end of the "General Produce Market" to finally terminate just before Snow Hill alongside the LC&CR's Smithfield Sidings. There was no locomotive working allowed under neath the Goods Depot upper floors.

 

So no tunnels under Farringdon Road and no unloading in that area.

 

Hope that helps. The book is very good.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

 

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