March to Wisbech Re-opening

[stivesnick]

At  it's Transport and infrastructure Committee meeting a few weeks back, the Cambridge and Peterborough Combined Authority signed off the business case for the re-opening of the railway between March and Wisbech. 

 

The plan is to run an half -hourly service berween Wisbech and Cambridge subject to works at Ely North Junction to improve capacity. 

 

There has been a campaign to re-open the line for many years and the re-opening is iinked to major new housing is Wisbech (10,000+ new homes) 

 

The re-opening would involve bringing back platform 3 at March station and using the existing Ely direction platform 2 as bi-directional. A passing loop would be provided at Coldham and there would be a single platform at Wisbech. Overall cost is £230m including £44mm contingency. Most of the cost is for road diversions including the A47 trunk road at Wisbech. The aim is to  remove all of the 22 crossings of various sorts, road, farm, footpath. Although increasing the capital costs will ensure a safer railway and lower running costs. 

 

The new track through platform 3 has a curve that is sharper than NR requirements, so special approval will be needed. In model terms it is still a R10 if using setrack curves!

 

Proposed trackplan at March below. New track shown in red. 

 

Nick 

 

[berwicksfinest]

Ain't gonna happen

[Fen End Pit]

I would agree. Just divide the amount of money the government is announcing as available by the number of projects seeking funding and the average cost of the projects. Governments of all political colour will always quote what sounds like a very large numbers and keep very quiet about how that number is only a tiny fraction of what is actually needed. I'm afraid this one is extremely unlikely.

David

[Fenman]

And aren’t the Ely North works that are a precondition for this scheme now budgeted at around half a billion? A staggering sum for a couple of trains an hour to both Wisbech and King’s Lynn. 

 

Paul

 

[stivesnick]

The £500m Ely project is now much more than work at Ely North Junction. It has become a route upgrade between Cambridge/Soham and Peterborough. The scheme will likely include resignalling, double track through to Soham and no doubt work on Level Crossings (of which there are many) along the route. Details will be announced later this year hopefully. 

 

With regard to the Wisbech re-opening it has a number of things in it's favour. It is linked to large housing growth, possibly 14,000 new homes is Wisbech which the local authorities are keen to do. These homes are also part of the general Cambridge area growth. The business case shows a positive number and scheme is ready to start the design work leading to a Development Consent Order or Transport Works Act application. The Combined Authority Mayor also has a big pot of money to spend on infrastructure. 

 

These are things that overnmant iike to hear: something ready to happen, new housing, new jobs, local support, rail industry on board . I think it will happen.

 

Nick  

[berwicksfinest]

2 hours ago, stivesnick said:

The £500m Ely project is now much more than work at Ely North Junction. It has become a route upgrade between Cambridge/Soham and Peterborough. The scheme will likely include resignalling, double track through to Soham and no doubt work on Level Crossings (of which there are many) along the route. Details will be announced later this year hopefully. 

 

With regard to the Wisbech re-opening it has a number of things in it's favour. It is linked to large housing growth, possibly 14,000 new homes is Wisbech which the local authorities are keen to do. These homes are also part of the general Cambridge area growth. The business case shows a positive number and scheme is ready to start the design work leading to a Development Consent Order or Transport Works Act application. The Combined Authority Mayor also has a big pot of money to spend on infrastructure. 

 

These are things that overnmant iike to hear: something ready to happen, new housing, new jobs, local support, rail industry on board . I think it will happen.

 

Nick  

 

Nick. I probably should of expanded on my reply. 

 

I live in Wisbech, and also I am a Train Driver, I was the second to last Driver to bring the Petfood off the Wisbech Branch. so I hope that I am a little more clued in 

 

(1) As I have said on a different forum, A railway is used for moving freight and passenger.

 

Freight: I am not aware of any industry nearby that would need the capacity of freight trains (remember Spillers, now Nestle purina stopped using rail) 

 

Passenger: We have a pretty robust bus service Excel to Peterborough/Swaffham/Norwich. I have yet to see any bus anywhere near full . Same goes for the March service, so the question remains How are you going to make a train profitable.

 

(2) 14,000 new homes hey?? now I am going to be very interested where they are going to be put, because I would bet, that it wouldn't be very close to Wisbech itself. Hence the need for the railway is non existent.

 

(3) How are you going to operate it?? XCountry Stansted to Birmingham ?? EMR Norwich to Nottingham/Liverpool ?? GA Ipswich to Peterborough ?? you are talking a branchline here I cannot see any operator dirverting off the above paths to serve Wisbech

So a shuttle?? Wisbech to March, OK we go back to how are you going to better the timings of the bus and better frequency.

 

(4) Drivers hat on now, just one of the jobs we have Felixstowe, Surely more deserving of cash, Doubling Trimley to Westerfield, Haughley Junction remodelling, Capacity signalling Haughley to Chippenham, Doubling Soham to Ely, the infamously Ely North Junction, and finally one word ELECTRIFICATION

 

(5) The misconception is the infrastructure is still there to a fashion, BUT none of it will be able to be re-used, Chain Bridge (condemned) all crossings not fit for purpose. Track bed and Track need totally replacing. Finally Wisbech Station where do you propose to put it, Track bed actually ends in Spillers Yard, Weasenham Lane or Newbridge Lane your really talking too far out of town to be useful.

 

As i have previously said I am not against the idea, but for the amount of money needed there are definitely more worthy projects needed first.

Remember Steven Barclay (MP) that was his election promise around these parts, where is he now ???

 

The only viable option i can see, a big sugar daddy wanting to run a heritage line Wisbech to March with bottom-less pockets !!!!!!!

[Middlepeak]

I'm afraid I would have to agree with Berwicksfinest on this one. There are many sides to a business case, not just funding the capital for construction. I also look at it from the TOC perspective, as a former GA employee. A service like this will demand additional investment in rolling stock (potentially 3 units for an hourly service, dependent on the timing of available paths), and the incremental revenue generated from the new station at Wisbech will have to cover this. Incremental revenue from the other stations served would be marginal and may also detract from the bottom line of existing services. 

 

Then we have the issues of revenue costs of running and maintaining the new station at Wisbech, which will have to be set against the revenue generated. 

 

Finally, the question of revenue generation. We all know of the impact that the current pandemic has had on passenger numbers and consequently on TOC revenue. Current predictions are that it will take some time for revenue to even approach pre-pandemic levels. Both the level and frequency of commuting by rail is likely to be different in the future, so there will inevitably be some impact on the business case. Therefore the assumption that building houses in Wisbech will fill jobs in Cambridge and provide immediate patronage for a new rail service seems at best hopeful. 

 

As they say, we'll see. 

[russ p]

Surely most commuters in Wisbech go either to Lynn or Peterborough? 

Sadly east anglia always seemed to leave out lines that would be great today,  basically a rail A47 Norwich to Peterborough 

Kings Lynn to Norwich would be great but not with a diversion via wymondham which used to be the case and Peterborough to lynn without going via Sutton Bridge 

[Tony Davis]

We live in Guyhirn, which is pretty much in the middle between March and Wisbech, and we visit both towns, according to what we need or how we feel but, when speaking to friends who live in different villages, the general rule of thumb seems to be those that go to Wisbech never go to March and vice versa.

[John Tomlinson]

IIRC there's also a plan afoot to improve the A47 to the west of Wisbech - the Peterborough side - which might alleviate some of the forecast tranport demand from the new housing.

 

I would also struggle to see many more trains on the March to Ely section, with traffic seemingly growing strongly to/ from Felixstowe, would there not be an issue of available paths?

 

John.

[Fenman]

20 minutes ago, russ p said:

...

Sadly east anglia always seemed to leave out lines that would be great today,  basically a rail A47 Norwich to Peterborough 

Kings Lynn to Norwich would be great but not with a diversion via wymondham which used to be the case ... 

Or there was the Lynn—Norwich line via Fakenham. I never understood why the M&GN didn’t run a couple of trains backwards and forwards as fast-ish interurban passenger services, skipping all those tiny village/ rural stops. 
 

But, as you wrote, East Anglia has always been poorly served for internal rail services.

 

Paul

[Michael Hodgson]

Last time I was there the track wasn't fit for service, relaying needed throughout.

 

All very well reopening platform 3, but the trackbed got blocked as a cheap way to provide disabled access to platform 2 via the north side of the level crossing.  So they also have to install passenger lifts on the island platform and the station building side -  and probably replace the footbridge.  Will Bachmann have to revise their rather excellent model of the Platform 1 buildings ?

[TravisM]

As a ex train driver and recently a ex bus driver, I have to agree that Wisbech is well served with bus services and if they upgrade the A47 as the DoT keep threatening to do, monies will be diverted to that rather than to be honest, a probably poorly patronised service.

 

As Russ pointed out, anyone wanting to connect with rail services, it’s easier to travel by bus to either Peterborough or Kings Lynn, probably Kings Lynn as it’s closer.  I think had several rail served industries had also been included in the plan, I could see it then being viable.

[tr7v8]

I was a Upwell resident from 88-97 and commuted from 92-95 into Kings X. I used to drive every day to Downham Market & train direct to Kings X. side from the strike that was on at the time the service was abysmal. It used to take 1 3/4 hours. I couldn't see a shuttle service running backwards & forwards from Wisbech to March offering anything of use. There were quite a few commuters from the surrounding areas going from Downham.

As someone said I cannot ever remember going to March, Wisbech occasionally  & Kings Lynn a lot. Odd visits to Peterboro. My mother still lives in Outwell & the general public transport position is dire. 

[Zomboid]

I'm not familiar with popular journeys in the area, but it looks to me that the idea would be to connect Wisbech and the surrounding area with March, Ely and Cambridge (possibly Stansted, but reach hypothetical extension increases the number of trains it'd need). A parkway style station would be fine to act as a traffic source as no matter where you build a station, most people won't be within walking distance of it. Most passengers would have to drive to the station (or get a bus) - such stations are less effective as destinations, but things may well build up around it in time.

 

Of course, whether people in Wisbech actually want to go to Ely & Cambridge is another matter. If a load of new houses are built then having good links in that direction will help encourage commuting from them into Cambridge, which I understand is not exactly a dream to access by car.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Improving all transportation links is generally a prerequisite of housing development, so maybe in this case, as up to 14000 houses could put one hell of a strain on the road system, rail upgrading is part of planning permission?

 

Mike.

[uax6]

I agree that if you were going to run a passenger service from Wisbecistan to anywhere, than its going to need to go to Peterborough rather than Cambridge, although if the plan is to have the new houses as overspill to Cambridge, then a good service that way will also be required.

 

What I find interesting is that the Ely North Junction project seems to have stalled and disappeared off the radar. I seem to recall that the last time it was mentioned in work, there were two big problems that were going to swallow most of the budget; the unstable bank between Ely and Soham (the embankment was built when the line was built on day one, but has never had track on it, and therefore will need to be removed and rebuilt) and the problem of the Queen Adelaide level crossings. These three crossings are to be upgraded from AHBC's to CCTV's, but there is a problem with the potential of the traffic backing up over the other crossings. Last I heard work was thinking of pulling the junction back up the Lynn Road and having the junction on the north side of the existing village, but this will cost more money than even the blank cheque book of the railway can afford...

 

As for re-signalling the March road, we are lead to believe that that will be restricted to replacing rotten semaphores with 'lightweight semaphores' (whatever they are!) as to put colour lights in will mean re-locating all the signals at platforms next to level crossings as the existing signals are too close to the crossings...

 

I really can't see it happening anytime soon...

 

Andy G

Edited August 28, 2020 by uax6

[Fenman]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

...

What I find interesting is that the Ely North Junction project seems to have stalled and disappeared off the radar.

...

 

It still seems to be bubbling away (or, at least, is still providing millions of pounds of public money to spend on consultants). Here’s a news story announcing another £13m of DfT funding (to go with £9m from the LEP — which is just another agent for spending public money), to provide £22m towards developing the business case. Not even completing the business case, just developing it.
 

Someone seems to be getting rich, anyway. 
 

Paul
 

The same story with a bit more detail is here. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Fenman
Added a 2nd link

[uax6]

Well I'm glad to see that sitting in a room, stabbing fingers at a whiteboard is so productive, and worth every penny of the £22millions that has been spent so far.

 

I doubt we'll see this happen anytime soon. Interestingly re-doubling the junction probably won't improve the utilisation much, what would be a real benefit would be a third line from ENJ through the station... but I bet that won't even have been thought of in the above £22m....

 

Andy G

[H2O]

For the long drawn out process (and thus unlikely re-opening) look no further than the Portishead branch passenger re-opening.  Previously being local and having travelled on the line in the GWR 150 event I use this scheme as a bit of a bell-weather for re-opening lines.  The scheme has local backing with the council coughing up money and it has apparently a good return ratio.  Much money spent over the years but little to show for it.

 

Problems with each re-opening scheme are unique but the decades this re-opening has been rumbling on for shows how even a good scheme can be mired to such an extent that it effectively has little chance of happening. 

 

One issue for all schemes is that each stage is done, one after the other, and it takes so long to move the project forward the reports on environmental effect, traffic impact, finances etc. become out of date when the next stage is started so they have to be done again - soaking up millions in the process.  If the government are serious about re-opening lines perhaps new legislation is required to streamline (not circumnavigate) the various stages of (re)building rail lines.

 

For some Portishead info, and hence what can (and will) go wrong, there are many references on RMweb including:

 

 

 

[Tony Davis]

On 27/08/2020 at 19:55, John Tomlinson said:

IIRC there's also a plan afoot to improve the A47 to the west of Wisbech - the Peterborough side - which might alleviate some of the forecast tranport demand from the new housing.

Our village hall was taken over for day a couple of years ago by a team of consultants. There were a lot of charts and pictures of the proposed "improvement", it consisted of making the approach to the Guyhirn roundabout into three lanes instead of one. This may alleviate the bottleneck for traffic going into March from A47 but most of the traffic on the A47 continues on the A47 towards Wisbech and Kings Lynn. The real problem as I see it is traffic blocking back from the Elm roundabout. I did point out to one of the consultants that all it would do would would be to move the traffic problem slight further east. He agreed and said that it might be looked at in the next few years. The A47 is a traffic jam right through Kings Lynn, mainly because of (in my view) the lack of dual carriageways.

 

The work on the roundabout was due to start a couple of years ago but so far, bar some test drilling, nothing has happened. I am dreading it when/if it does eventually start as the village will become a rat run for traffic heading east, which it already becomes every time there is a hold up on the A47.

[Wickham Green too]

6 hours ago, H2O said:

For the long drawn out process (and thus unlikely re-opening) look no further than the Portishead branch passenger re-opening.  ....

 

Talk of Tavistock's been rumbling on for years too ............

[russ p]

13 hours ago, Tony Davis said:

Our village hall was taken over for day a couple of years ago by a team of consultants. There were a lot of charts and pictures of the proposed "improvement", it consisted of making the approach to the Guyhirn roundabout into three lanes instead of one. This may alleviate the bottleneck for traffic going into March from A47 but most of the traffic on the A47 continues on the A47 towards Wisbech and Kings Lynn. The real problem as I see it is traffic blocking back from the Elm roundabout. I did point out to one of the consultants that all it would do would would be to move the traffic problem slight further east. He agreed and said that it might be looked at in the next few years. The A47 is a traffic jam right through Kings Lynn, mainly because of (in my view) the lack of dual carriageways.

 

The work on the roundabout was due to start a couple of years ago but so far, bar some test drilling, nothing has happened. I am dreading it when/if it does eventually start as the village will become a rat run for traffic heading east, which it already becomes every time there is a hold up on the A47.

 

 

Not only did east anglia not have the rail network it needed its never had a fit for purpose road network 

The A47, A17 and A140 should really be dual carriageways throughout 

[caradoc]

19 hours ago, H2O said:

For the long drawn out process (and thus unlikely re-opening) look no further than the Portishead branch passenger re-opening. 

 

It doesn't have to be that way ! In Scotland, recent years have seen the re-opening of, among others, the Larkhall branch, Airdrie/Bathgate, and the Borders Railway. All three were completely dismantled, as opposed to disused or freight only lines, and two are electrified. So it can be done ......

 

[uax6]

Ah but to do that you need a forward thinking bunch in power, and they also need to be able to plan longer than 4 years ahead.

I fear that until career politicians are removed from our English government make-up that none of this will happen, as you need to have a grasp on reality to be able to see what really needs to be done...

 

Andy G