March to Wisbech Re-opening

[chris p bacon]

4 hours ago, uax6 said:

I fear that until career politicians are removed

Andy, Can I just point out the flaw in that....Trump is not a career politician....

 

I'll leave that with you..

[uax6]

You always pop up to point the flaw in my ideas....

I do wonder if Trump is actually better than the likes of Truss though.....

 

Andy G

[Tony Davis]

Looks like Soham is getting a new station, so there maybe hope for Wisbech.

 

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/anglia/reconnecting-soham/

[russ p]

Soham would be better if the curve was put back in at Chippenham so trains from Soham could serve Newmarket and Cambridge 

[Northmoor]

While schemes like this do seem to be a bonanza for consultants, do remember that it pays for a lot of detailed engineering work to be done; the sort that shows that the old railway bridge that the local enthusiast insists could be easily refurbished (i.e. less than £1M) actually doesn't come close to meeting the axle loading requirement and replacement will cost about £30M.

 

I don't know the Wisbech area at all well but can't help reading the posts above from people who do and come to the conclusion that this is a railway people want reopened because it's there  - a solution looking for a problem - rather than because it actually takes people where they want to go in the 21st century.  A look at the map tells me there are probably far more potential commuters to Peterborough and Kings Lynn from the new 14,000 houses than to Cambridge, which the railway would be likely to serve.

 

But let's be generous and estimate that 10% of the new Wisbech homes provide a commuter to (typically) Cambridge, at about £10 per day.  With other traffic inc. weekends, that amounts to maybe £90K per week, less than £4.5M p.a. of new business, rather than extractive.  If this scheme is going to cost £220M, that's a return of less than 2%.  Even assuming there was existing potential traffic as well as the new commuters, this is going to be WAY down the list of likely reopenings.  I agree with the poster above that Portishead is an example of how schemes like this take far too long in the UK and there, the economics are (even with the ever inflated costs) very favourable.

[phil-b259]

11 minutes ago, russ p said:

Soham would be better if the curve was put back in at Chippenham so trains from Soham could serve Newmarket and Cambridge 

 

That would require new services to be provided, which in turn requires more subsidy and possibly more rolling stock to be leased. Not insurmountable of course but something HM Treasury will resist.

 

Obviously with all franchises now being run as management contracts some of the difficulties relating to the fixed term franchising contracts fall away - but conversely with the way the Pandemic has seen Government spending skyrocket over the past 6 months HM Treasury is going to be even less sympathetic.

 

The advantage of the new Soham station is it can be served by an already existing service without the need for any extras outside of station construction - and lets face it an unstaffed station with bus shelters is hardly going to represent much of an ongoing cost.

[H2O]

On ‎30‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 12:25, caradoc said:

 

It doesn't have to be that way ! In Scotland, recent years have seen the re-opening of, among others, the Larkhall branch, Airdrie/Bathgate, and the Borders Railway. All three were completely dismantled, as opposed to disused or freight only lines, and two are electrified. So it can be done ......

 

Quite!  I wish the English* parliament would take heed of what has happened north of the border.

 

* There is, of course, no such parliament, I mean the parliament with jurisdiction on such issues in England.

Edited August 31, 2020 by H2O
Add note.

[russ p]

30 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

That would require new services to be provided, which in turn requires more subsidy and possibly more rolling stock to be leased. Not insurmountable of course but something HM Treasury will resist.

 

Obviously with all franchises now being run as management contracts some of the difficulties relating to the fixed term franchising contracts fall away - but conversely with the way the Pandemic has seen Government spending skyrocket over the past 6 months HM Treasury is going to be even less sympathetic.

 

The advantage of the new Soham station is it can be served by an already existing service without the need for any extras outside of station construction - and lets face it an unstaffed station with bus shelters is hardly going to represent much of an ongoing cost.

 

I hear what you are saying Phil,  but I cant see been used by commuters except to Bury.

If the Chippenham curve was reinstated some Norwich to Stanstead services could go that way  or additional GA ely Cambridge via Soham 

[TravisM]

One “huge” elephant in the room is the line crosses the A47 and by looking at Google maps, it seems the level crossing has been removed.  If they were serious about the proposal, I don’t think current legislation would allow the level crossing to be put back given how busy the A47 is, which means a road flyover and I can’t see the scheme justifying the cost.

Edited September 1, 2020 by jools1959
Spelling

[berwicksfinest]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

One “huge” elephant in the room is the line crosses the A47 and by looking at Google maps, it seems the level crossing has been removed.  If they were serious about the proposal, I don’t think current legislation would allow the level crossing to be put back given how busy the A47 is, which means a road flyover and I can’t see the scheme justifying the cost.

I woiuldn't say removed, its basically just left to fall apart. And pre-covid the Wisbech bypass between Tesco roundabout and Elme Hall was resurfaced eliminating the crossing.

 

Again back in the day I can assure everyone as I brought the Spillers traffic into Wisbech this definitely was a heart in you mouth crossing, As this was an open crossing !!!! and the amount of near misses I had let alone the other lads was silly. The local populace seemed to think they were a lot tougher than a Class 56 !!!

 

Taking on another point as I have said I live in  Wisbech, Where are these 14,000 new homes actually going ?? 

[uax6]

Although the crossing has been removed, l believe that the level crossing order is still current, so in law the crossing is still there. I recall NR stating at the time of them removing the track and bomacs across the A47 that it was for there own convienance, so that NR workers wouldn’t be in harm’s way trying to maintain the crossing surface. It was pointed out that it would go back in when the railway reopened.

 

As for the houses, l guess that they will go between the A47 and the town, all along that arc. It’s interesting that a few of the proposal l’ve seen have the station on the south side of the A47 next to the travellers site. Although there was also one that had the railway turning east and continuing back to Maggy Road on the Lynn line. That would possibly be a useful link, but still the journey time to Peterborough will be longer than by road l guess, and then what is the public transport like in Peterborough to get you to the offices?

 

Andy g

 

 

[TravisM]

3 hours ago, uax6 said:

That would possibly be a useful link, but still the journey time to Peterborough will be longer than by road l guess, and then what is the public transport like in Peterborough to get you to the offices?

 

Andy g

As a ex Peterborough bus driver, the frequency on most routes is 5-10 minutes depending on where you need to go to but the big pain is you have to walk from the station to Queensgate which is approximately 5-10 walk in all weathers.  The former X-1, now Excel (Peterborough-Wisbech-Kings Lynn-Norwich) has a every 30 minute schedule, drops you off in Queensgate, has A/C, USB plugs, leather seating and probably cheaper, also free after 09.30 for the “twerlies”.

[Fenman]

3 hours ago, jools1959 said:

As a ex Peterborough bus driver, the frequency on most routes is 5-10 minutes depending on where you need to go to but the big pain is you have to walk from the station to Queensgate which is approximately 5-10 walk in all weathers.  The former X-1, now Excel (Peterborough-Wisbech-Kings Lynn-Norwich) has a every 30 minute schedule, drops you off in Queensgate, has A/C, USB plugs, leather seating and probably cheaper, also free after 09.30 for the “twerlies”.

 

First and most important - congratulations on 2,000 posts!

 

It's the thriving ex-X1 service which made me think the old M&GN route (Peterborough-Wisbech-South Lynn-Norwich) might today have been a viable passenger route if it had managed to survive. We know very few people use replacement bus services, yet enough use this service to make a half-hourly frequency viable even though it uses some Norfolk "trunk" roads which are notoriously slow. With the A47 currently requiring upgrades costing hundreds of millions, I'm not even certain the railway would have been much more expensive.

 

Paul

Edited September 1, 2020 by Fenman

[ess1uk]

it's gone very quiet on this.

will the newly elected Mayor carry on with this?

[stivesnick]

Funding for the next stage of the design was agreed in March 2021 with an expected programme of 7 months, so we should expect some more details later in the year. 

 

The new Mayor was in Fenland last week at a water management event. Better transport links to Fenland were mentioned in his speech , so hopefully that means that the rail scheme is still progressing. 

 

In the latest NR consultation on Ely, they say they are only designing for one extra train per hour on top of those already promised - so does not look like they a planning for an half-hourly Wisbech to Cambridge service.

 

Nick 

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

54 minutes ago, stivesnick said:

The new Mayor was in Fenland last week at a water management event. Better transport links to Fenland were mentioned in his speech , so hopefully that means that the rail scheme is still progressing. 

 

You sure he didn't mean high speed boats?

[black and decker boy]

On 27/08/2020 at 19:55, John Tomlinson said:

IIRC there's also a plan afoot to improve the A47 to the west of Wisbech - the Peterborough side - which might alleviate some of the forecast tranport demand from the new housing.

 

I would also struggle to see many more trains on the March to Ely section, with traffic seemingly growing strongly to/ from Felixstowe, would there not be an issue of available paths?

 

John.

Being involved in these works, I can’t say they will be a game changer for the A47 as it’s tinkering with Guyhurn roundabout to improve flows but without solving the long stretches of single carriageway either side.

 

the big money on the A47 are the dualling schemes at Wansford, Tuddenham & Blofield plus the A11 junction at Thickthorn. All should be open late 2024.

[Tony Davis]

9 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Being involved in these works, I can’t say they will be a game changer for the A47 as it’s tinkering with Guyhurn roundabout to improve flows but without solving the long stretches of single carriageway either side.

That’s what I said to one of the people at the display in Guyhirn village hall, he just agreed with me.

 

The night workings have caused a stir among the village residents at Ring’s End though...

[black and decker boy]

6 minutes ago, Tony Davis said:

That’s what I said to one of the people at the display in Guyhirn village hall, he just agreed with me.

 

The night workings have caused a stir among the village residents at Ring’s End though...

Yes, we have apologised for that.

 

a couple more to do (traffic switches mainly) but the Civils works are largely on days until final surfacing later in the year.

 

im waiting for the cafe on the A47 to reopen to treat the team to a Friday fry up, they tell me you need a nap afterwards :-)

[berwicksfinest]

21 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

Being involved in these works, I can’t say they will be a game changer for the A47 as it’s tinkering with Guyhurn roundabout to improve flows but without solving the long stretches of single carriageway either side.

 

the big money on the A47 are the dualling schemes at Wansford, Tuddenham & Blofield plus the A11 junction at Thickthorn. All should be open late 2024.

This all day long !! Driving across this most days I am still at a loss as to what they are going to do and how it will improve things.

and even if and thats a huge IF, they will improve the flow of traffic, it'll only shift the problem 4 - 5 miles down the road to Tesco roundabout and Elme Hall roundabout

[black and decker boy]

Just now, berwicksfinest said:

This all day long !! Driving across this most days I am still at a loss as to what they are going to do and how it will improve things.

and even if and thats a huge IF, they will improve the flow of traffic, it'll only shift the problem 4 - 5 miles down the road to Tesco roundabout and Elme Hall roundabout

Basically adding width on each approach so 2 lanes allowing A141 traffic to split out of A47 through traffic and therefore improve the flow. But it’s only short lengths of extra lane.

[berwicksfinest]

Thank you, whose going to be the first to come down the 47 and miss the new layout and end up far side in someones garden

[pete_mcfarlane]

2 hours ago, berwicksfinest said:

Thank you, whose going to be the first to come down the 47 and miss the new layout and end up far side in someones garden

And what model of BMW will they be driving?

[Zomboid]

1 hour ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

And what model of BMW will they be driving?

Audi drivers are the new BMW drivers.

 

(Certainly aligns with my observations)

 

 

[stewartingram]

And BMW drivers are the old Ford drivers