March to Wisbech Re-opening

[lmsforever]

On 31/08/2020 at 11:02, chris p bacon said:

Andy, Can I just point out the flaw in that....Trump is not a career politician....

 

I'll leave that with you..

Not yet but I bet he would like to be!

[ess1uk]

Not heard anything about this for a while,

what type of unit would provide the service if it did reopen?

[Shed]

On 27/10/2021 at 21:05, ess1uk said:

Not heard anything about this for a while,

what type of unit would provide the service if it did reopen?

Some new fangled batteries job?

[berwicksfinest]

On 27/10/2021 at 21:05, ess1uk said:

Not heard anything about this for a while,

what type of unit would provide the service if it did reopen?

Strange you brought this up, We in the federal republic of Wisbeckistan have just had our local councillor having a moan that is seem that the idea for Heavy rail between March and Wisbech has been quietly put on the very back burner and the favour would seem to be a tram !!!!!!!

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, berwicksfinest said:

Strange you brought this up, We in the federal republic of Wisbeckistan have just had our local councillor having a moan that is seem that the idea for Heavy rail between March and Wisbech has been quietly put on the very back burner and the favour would seem to be a tram !!!!!!!

Perhaps a tram could run on the roadway, meaning what's left of the line would not need to be the terminus and the enable service actually to run all the way into Wisbech?

[stivesnick]

22 hours ago, berwicksfinest said:

Strange you brought this up, We in the federal republic of Wisbeckistan have just had our local councillor having a moan that is seem that the idea for Heavy rail between March and Wisbech has been quietly put on the very back burner and the favour would seem to be a tram !!!!!!!

 

This option has also been mentioned in connection with the rail re-opening to Haverhill  with respect to tram-train. It is not clear if this is a serious option, as it has been considered in the past or just something that has to be looked at when making an application to the government for funding that all the options have been considered. Previous studies have indicated that a through service to Cambridge gives the best results for the project. 

 

Greater Anglia has a few spare class 755 units that could be used if the heavy rail option gets the green light.

 

Nick 

[stivesnick]

Cambridge and Peterborough Combined Authority has issued a video showing the work currently being done at both March and Manea stations. It includes some drone footage, plus images of the proposed station and new car park.

 

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

 

[stewartingram]

Interesting video of my 2 nearest stations there.

How did they get away with drone footage over the railway - I thought it was illegal? 

 

Stewart

[TravisM]

16 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Interesting video of my 2 nearest stations there.

How did they get away with drone footage over the railway - I thought it was illegal? 

 

Stewart

 

I believe drones are subject to the same rules as PPL's, not that anyone takes notice.  No lower than 500ft and no closer than 1500ft in any direction.

[Michael Hodgson]

You do have to descend below 500' in order to land, and you're below it just after take-off.

[4630]

17 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Interesting video of my 2 nearest stations there.

How did they get away with drone footage over the railway - I thought it was illegal? 

 

Stewart

 

It is allowed, but subject to prior permission from Network Rail’s Air Operations team.  I've no idea how readily available this is in practise though.

 

As distinct from the Civil Aviation Authority's own requirements, Network Rail's current operational guidance (dated July 2021) for flying drones near the railway is here.

 

 

[Arun Sharma]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You do have to descend below 500' in order to land, and you're below it just after take-off.

Fortunately those points amongst many others [such as dropping things from aircraft] are covered in the Air Navigation Order which allows all sorts of  [otherwise censured] things if done for the purposes of attracting assistance or saving life

[TravisM]

4 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You do have to descend below 500' in order to land, and you're below it just after take-off.

I think your just being pedantic as I was talking normal level flight

 

4 hours ago, 4630 said:

 

It is allowed, but subject to prior permission from Network Rail’s Air Operations team.  I've no idea how readily available this is in practise though.

 

As distinct from the Civil Aviation Authority's own requirements, Network Rail's current operational guidance (dated July 2021) for flying drones near the railway is here.

 

 

Unfortunately, a lot of amateur drone pilots are unaware of what is and what isn’t permitted, so fall foul of the law.

[ess1uk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-67451938

[Michael Hodgson]

I'm not holding my breath

[uax6]

I wonder if its re-surfaced as a way of getting some HS2 cash? 

 

Andy G

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

I wonder if its re-surfaced as a way of getting some HS2 cash? 

 

Andy G

A High Speed branch line ? 

I don't think there's a lot of international travel across the fens, though the drainage of the land is credited to the Dutch.

There's a daily service of about half a dozen buses each way.

If you want to reopen the line, the infrasturcture's completely shot.  Sorry but I don't see it paying, even if they can attract more passengers

[Forward!]

There is huge economic disparity between the Fens and South Cambs. A tram-train to March, where people would have to then presumably wait for a connecting train to Cambridgeshire is hardly going to make a Wisbech-Cambridge commute a viable option.

 

A full rail connection with half-hourly direct Wisbech-Cambridge trains might encourage people to move out of South Cambs (where property is now essentially London prices). A decent rail connection might encourage high-quality businesses to invest in the north of the county if they did so knowing that they could actually attract the people with the right skills to move there.

 

Will

[LNERGE]

The talk of a shuttle is a non starter. The signalling is arranged for direct access from the main. Running a Wizbang - Cambridge with a stop at March will reduce the amount of time the up main is blocked. Wizbang - Peterborough is also possible with the current signalling either direct missing the March stop or a reversal in the up platform to include it. Again there will be pathing problems if a meaningful amount of traffic is proposed. 

[berwicksfinest]

Give over !!!!

 

Theres a general election on the horizon, don't you know.

 

They'll all be knocking on my door canvassing what a great idea they're putting forward. And actually believe it themselves.

 

Reality -------  there is Stagecoach No 46 runs 7 times on a weekday, last departure 17.45. Hardly an oversubscribed route !!! So how we going to fill a Class 153 or anything longer ???

 

Election Hot Air

[RichardT]

2 hours ago, berwicksfinest said:

Reality -------  there is Stagecoach No 46 runs 7 times on a weekday, last departure 17.45. Hardly an oversubscribed route !!! So how we going to fill a Class 153 or anything longer ???

You’re probably right, but on the other hand patronage of such a useless level of bus “service” tells you very little about the level of suppressed demand for public transport designed to actually meet people’s needs. I’m the most pro-rail person all my friends know, but faced with a bus service running less than hourly and ending at 17:45 I’d be down at the car dealers quicker than you could say “Tory election lies”.

 

Richard

Edited November 20, 2023 by RichardT
Clarity

[stewartingram]

I live in the area - though south of March (at Chatteris); been her all my life and I'm in the March/Wisbech area 3 times a week at least.

With the recent retraction of bus services by Stagecoach, we are just about cut off in all directions. We now have a single decker runs either 1 or 2 hourly to Ely (not sure which). This used to be an hourly service right through to March, & onward to Tesco on the other side. The new operator could not continue the March section due to a lack of drivers.

There is now a 2 hourly service from St.Ives on  a different route to previously which is longer, which fills in the March portion, but only to the town centre. Now in my case, I normally drive, but have on a number of occasions (previously) used the bus to get to Tesco for prescriptions. I could catch a bus around 9:30 to March Tesco, and even get the prescription (including waiting for it to be dispensed), & get the same bus back as it layed over for 20 minutes.

With the new service which is 2 hourly, I have to walk from the town to Tesco,and back, thus missing the next service back. Effectively it becomes an all day trip. I can drive there in 20 mins. So the whole trip could be done in 1 hour. We had previously a couple of other reasonable services as well which have been withdrawn. So it is fair to say that we are now basically almost isolated from public transport - and we are in one of the better served Fen areas. 

In our catchment area, I can think of a number of bus tations that are now practically deserted. March used to have (many years ago) the centre of the High St as a bus station in what amounted to a full length central reservation. Ely had a full street with bus stops on the whole length. Wisbech was redeveloped with a new bus station a number of years ago, now practically unused. As was St.Ives, Huntingdon, etc. And now the rub. Without being provocative, there are areas which if not deprived, are at at the lower end of the payscale. Residents regularly turn to taxis to get to or from Tesco. That is NOT a cheap way of travel. They have to do it, so there must be a pent up demand for transport - but infrequent services like we have will not suffice.

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

You’re probably right, but on the other hand patronage of such a useless level of bus “service” tells you very little about the level of suppressed demand for public transport that actually met people’s needs.

Traffic prediction for public transport* investment is notoriously difficult; there are many examples of gross under-estimation over the years which have resulted in expensive upgrades being necessary within a few years of opening.  One I remember was the re-opening of the service to Bathgate in 1986, ISTR the expected number of passengers for the first twelve months, had been carried in about the first five.  In South Wales, the opposite has happened in two cases; Swanline services (Swansea to Cardiff stopping services) and the City Line (Radyr to Central via Ninian Park) in Cardiff both failed to achieve expected traffic levels, although the latter may have improved in recent years.

 

Also worth adding that bus usage is a poor predictor of potential train travel demand.  There are a lot of people in the UK who have a social snobbery about buses and would never dream of travelling on one, but will use a train.

 

*Not public transport, but visitor numbers for new preserved railways rarely get close to the original promoters' predictions.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Northmoor
Extra Paragraph

[stivesnick]

A few months back, the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, communities etc  Michael Gove make a speech talking about massive housing growth around Cambridge: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/long-term-plan-for-housing-secretary-of-states-speech 

 

It is not clear where all these houses will go, but creating new towns and enlarging existing towns is one option. Wisbech could be a possible site but it would depend on creating better transport links with Cambridge. It could be a case of watch this space with regard to the Wisbech line re-opening. 

 

Nick 

[Michael Hodgson]

6 hours ago, Forward! said:

There is huge economic disparity between the Fens and South Cambs. A tram-train to March, where people would have to then presumably wait for a connecting train to Cambridgeshire is hardly going to make a Wisbech-Cambridge commute a viable option.

 

A full rail connection with half-hourly direct Wisbech-Cambridge trains might encourage people to move out of South Cambs (where property is now essentially London prices). A decent rail connection might encourage high-quality businesses to invest in the north of the county if they did so knowing that they could actually attract the people with the right skills to move there.

 

Will

There is a serious housing shortage in Cambridge and there is an ever-increasing demand for employees in growth industries - that's why the prices are so high.  The difference between London and South Cambs housing is that they are building loads more housing (yet more new towns) on greenfield sites.  When the East-West route is built, St Neots (loads of new houses there too) will become a dormitory town for Cambridge.  The planners seem to see it as a chicken vs egg question, rather like a 21st century Metroland.  Build the houses close to a decent transport route and they will fill with new commuters.  Wisbech is apparently thought feasible, though the present demand is negligible. 

 

1 hour ago, stewartingram said:

 Now in my case, I normally drive, but have on a number of occasions (previously) used the bus to get to Tesco for prescriptions. I could catch a bus around 9:30 to March Tesco, and even get the prescription (including waiting for it to be dispensed), & get the same bus back as it layed over for 20 minutes.
 

 

You're doing well - you couldn't get your prescription filled in 20 minutes at my local chemists.  I understand they have to be careful and have a second skilled person check what's been dispensed, but must admit I don't see why it takes so long to count how many pills there are in a complete box and read the expiry date.

 

50 minutes ago, stivesnick said:

A few months back, the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, communities etc  Michael Gove make a speech talking about massive housing growth around Cambridge: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/long-term-plan-for-housing-secretary-of-states-speech 

 

It is not clear where all these houses will go, but creating new towns and enlarging existing towns is one option. Wisbech could be a possible site but it would depend on creating better transport links with Cambridge. It could be a case of watch this space with regard to the Wisbech line re-opening. 

 

Nick 

 

Definitely the way the planners are thinking.  But if they were thinking of real long-term demand for commuting across the whole area, they'd convert your busway to a railway line 😁