Clarke Island (a GWR built railway in a fictional British colony)

[DK123GWR]

At the moment I have a trainset which can only really be developed into a slightly better train set. I have realised though that upgrading it could free up track for a 'proper' layout - small enough to fit on a windowsill - which will allow me to try out some new techniques. That's when I had the idea of Clarke Island. To summarise the first page of my history of the island (2200 words and growing):

Clarke Island is approximately 200 miles long and sits in the Atlantic Ocean to the west of Morrocco. After a businessman (Eustace Bigginhope) built his own narrow gauge railway to transport stone and coal from the mountains around 1850, a rival businessman and the island's governor (George Clarke) realised the potential of the railway to transport their goods (including agricultural products from the east). As a result, soon after his friend Gooch became chair of the GWR, Clarke approached him with plans for a standard gauge line across the island. The island was occaisionally used by the GWR to test experimental designs, and later rolling stock was supplied by BR when it was retired with a long service life remaining, or when their intended service life had long expired (and were available at any price above scrap value).

 

The layout that I want to build is of a small station (name not yet decided) on the north coast, where a branch line of the (green) standard gauge network ends and is met by another line which goes to meet the easternmost line of the narrow gauge network (yellow). It will likely be set in the steam era to allow smaller locos, coaches, and wagons to be used. There is a limited passenger service on the line towards the narrow gauge transhipment centre, and on the line towards the capital city Avonmouth (the urban area which dominates the peninsula in the centre of the west coast). Most goods are supplied from the mainline, but coal occaisionally comes down from the narrow gauge transhipment centre.

The Island.svg

In the future, it may be joined by more layouts (Kawmib Junction in the south is tempting, as are all of the narrow gauge transhipment centres, and maybe the bridge to Westskerrey Island).

 

Although I am not expecting any imminent engineering works (as mentioned the track is currently in use elsewhere) I have decided to start the thread now to get an idea of what rolling stock people think could have appeared on Clarke Island. During steam years it would almost universally be GWR stock, but perhaps with a higher ratio of experimental locomotives or older classes. After nationalisation, perhaps some aging locomotives from other regions could be brought in, as well as a few Austerity locomotives. Later on, locomotives left redundant by changing demand in the UK (or changes in BR policy) could appear. This might include individual Class 08s or, on the main line, diesel hydraulics and newer steam locos such as 9Fs. In the modern era you could have the residual 9Fs and hydraulics, as well as diesel electrics with life extensions. The trick is to make sure that the rolling stock is allowed to become diverse enough for interest, yet remain realistic. This is where I would like some advice, as it is easy to find information on what did run, but harder to find what could have survived longer given a strange set of circumstances (as this is usually irrelevant).

Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated, whatever the point in history (the first layout is likely to be steam era, but others may not).

[mdvle]

On 01/08/2020 at 13:11, DK123GWR said:

That's when I had the idea of Clarke Island.

 

There is a lot that can be done with this sort of freedom, and it really comes down to what interests you as almost anything can be made plausible depending on what you want to achieve.

 

You could go from one extreme - the island has a lucrative mineral to sell or is of strategic importance so London lavishes it with bribes new stuff, so everything is in good shape - to the opposite extreme (think Cuba) where the island is poor and so relies on second hand goods, or the occasional generosity from London, and so the overall look is of "made do" and cannibalize it keep running, with the odd new item.  Or something in the middle.

 

You could also, by creating the fictional geography, create cases where non-typical UK things like a barge service to move wagons/coaches are necessary (whether via a lake or river - for example in Canada in BC the railways had some barge operations in the lakes/rivers of BC), or high wooden trestles.  Or, if isn't so much an island, one could go for a mountain style railroading (think parts of Europe or western North America)

 

The final step depends on how committed you are to this layout - as in are you willing to modify the rolling stock so it is no longer suitable for a UK layout.

 

If the models don't have to go back then the one thing you could do is remove the buffers and have your island simply use the knuckle couplers.  If the island is tropical you could create more open passenger cars that would be more suitable to the heat, or if you move to a more modern time (and a Cuba influenced poor make-do railway) put rooftop air conditioners onto older diesels and say Mk1 rolling stock - perhaps if it compartment stock give 1st class air conditioners and let the lower classes swelter (anyone wanting to pursue this idea may want to look at US detail parts - adding caravan style roof air conditioners to older diesels is common). 

 

You could take inspiration from places like the Philippines or parts of the Caribbean and go for colourful paint schemes, or customizations like additional front end lighting.  Or it could be so poor that a drab original paint scheme has faded/bleached away to almost nothing.

 

As for rolling stock, it will depend (at least for goods) as to what the island produces/imports.  If it is a poor island, perhaps with bad geography, one could do a modern-ish railway with diesels that operates more like a 1920s railroad where almost everything is still moved on the railway because there are few roads, and few motor vehicles.

 

But in any planning remember that these sorts of places tend to need to import almost everything - there is unlikely to be local coal so it all needs to arrive by sea, same for oil/petrol.  So a dockside scene could be very interesting.

 

 

[DK123GWR]

4 hours ago, mdvle said:

You could go from one extreme - the island has a lucrative mineral to sell or is of strategic importance so London lavishes it with bribes new stuff, so everything is in good shape - to the opposite extreme (think Cuba) where the island is poor and so relies on second hand goods, or the occasional generosity from London, and so the overall look is of "made do" and cannibalize it keep running, with the odd new item.  Or something in the middle.

First of all, a warning that the following was written while I was tired. Consquently, the historical accuracy/economic thinking/grammar may be difficult to understand.

My plan had been that during the BR era they were able to buy redundant stock at the cost of the sale (covering shipping, etc.). Around 1970, this meant that they were able to completely refresh the fleet as the diesel hydraulics and many new steam locomotives (including BR standard classes) became available. However, the supply since then has been more patchy. Class 56s have allowed 9Fs to retire or be redeployed on passenger services in place of less reliable hydraulics. Some class 50s were available to take on the express services, but as preservation groups are considered a higher priority nearly half of the BR fleet were not. Small groups of successful diesel electric locos such as the 37 and 47 have taken on freight work previously performed by various BR standards. This has allowed the standards to be redeployed as cover for the even older locomotives which often work branch line passenger services (there is no intention to replace steam on these lines as many serve tourist destinations).

 

In short, if stock cannot be sold or preserved, it will be offered to the Clarke Island Railway. If they do not want it, it will join the queue to be scrapped. While not state of the art, the railway is still the main form of goods transport as there has been little investment in roads.

5 hours ago, mdvle said:

If the models don't have to go back then the one thing you could do is remove the buffers and have your island simply use the knuckle couplers.  If the island is tropical you could create more open passenger cars that would be more suitable to the heat, or if you move to a more modern time (and a Cuba influenced poor make-do railway) put rooftop air conditioners onto older diesels and say Mk1 rolling stock - perhaps if it compartment stock give 1st class air conditioners and let the lower classes swelter (anyone wanting to pursue this idea may want to look at US detail parts - adding caravan style roof air conditioners to older diesels is common). 

If any models are run on a UK layout it would be as repatriated preserved examples. In other words, modifications such as added AC would remain. Regarding coaches, the mainline will likely be using Mk1s and early Mk2s by now, but older designs (perhaps including a three compartment four wheel coach built by the GWR specifically for the CIR) may persist on branch lines. This is particularly true of those that are now semi-heritage lines.

 

5 hours ago, mdvle said:

You could take inspiration from places like the Philippines or parts of the Caribbean and go for colourful paint schemes,

'What would a Class 47 look like in pink with yellow lining?' was one of the thoughts which drew me toward this idea. Please note that this is not a final decision on livery.

 

5 hours ago, mdvle said:

As for rolling stock, it will depend (at least for goods) as to what the island produces/imports.  If it is a poor island, perhaps with bad geography, one could do a modern-ish railway with diesels that operates more like a 1920s railroad where almost everything is still moved on the railway because there are few roads, and few motor vehicles.

 

But in any planning remember that these sorts of places tend to need to import almost everything - there is unlikely to be local coal so it all needs to arrive by sea, same for oil/petrol.  So a dockside scene could be very interesting.

Originally food, coal, and stone were transported (the last two having been transhipped from narrow gauge lines). This would have expanded to include most types of goods. Due to a relatively poor road network (a road like the A350 between Shaftesbury and Blandford Forum is a 'good' road and anything better is exceptional) the railway continues to be the primary form of passenger and freigh transport. Environmental concerns mean this is unlikely to change. Wagons will likely be a random mixture of eras as some industries (eg. coal and stone) may have moved on to modern wagons and operating practises (using early hopper designs) while others would be forced to use and adapt older vehicles as the equivalent traffic has since died out in Britain.

I think that operating practises could be a combination of older and newer ones, where some more recent ideas to save time have been adopted into a railway which is still operationally in the steam era.

[mdvle]

So first things first - your layout, your rules.

 

There is nothing to say that the layout needs to make sense from a "reality" perspective, particularly if reality would rule out stock that you would really prefer to use.

 

My comments below are based on trying to go for some sort of expectation of reality, which may not suit what you are aiming for.

 

Your fictional island is 200 miles, for comparison Jamaica is 150 miles.  Jamaica has not much of the railways it had, though some private - resource extration based - railway operations remain.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Jamaica

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6LlXNn_2Y

 

1 hour ago, DK123GWR said:

My plan had been that during the BR era they were able to buy redundant stock at the cost of the sale (covering shipping, etc.). Around 1970, this meant that they were able to completely refresh the fleet as the diesel hydraulics and many new steam locomotives (including BR standard classes) became available. However, the supply since then has been more patchy. Class 56s have allowed 9Fs to retire or be redeployed on passenger services in place of less reliable hydraulics. Some class 50s were available to take on the express services, but as preservation groups are considered a higher priority nearly half of the BR fleet were not. Small groups of successful diesel electric locos such as the 37 and 47 have taken on freight work previously performed by various BR standards.

 

You are thinking too big for a small island.

 

Islands typically have cheap infrastructure, short-ish distances, and "island time".

 

To go by the old BR Type system, it would mostly be Type 2 locos with maybe a small number of Type 3 for the coal or stone - but more likely simply run say 2 Type-2's on a train rather than a bigger loco.

 

And certainly none of the newer, more complicated and hence more difficult to repair locos with electronics.

 

This means your 9F, 56's, 47's are all highly unlikely simply because the trackwork wouldn't support them - and there certainly wouldn't be express trains or the resulting Class 50's.  Really likely moved to DMU's, but for model interest better to keep it to say 2 coaches and a loco.

 

From the sounds of things such restrictions may not appeal to you, so perhaps a change to the backstory - a bigger island, less poor so hence more money for infrastructure.  Maybe a "royal" family, or other hereditary ruling system (aka the enlightened dictator) that has deliberately chosen to save the island from the pitfalls of the automobile while investing in the railway.

 

1 hour ago, DK123GWR said:

In short, if stock cannot be sold or preserved, it will be offered to the Clarke Island Railway. If they do not want it, it will join the queue to be scrapped. While not state of the art, the railway is still the main form of goods transport as there has been little investment in roads.

 

Another possibility would be to keep the island as steam operated in the current era - steam engines are (relatively) easy to repair without fancy education (aka electronics) and possibly expensive parts, and with local coal the cost of importing oil is eliminated.

 

[DK123GWR]

6 hours ago, mdvle said:

So first things first - your layout, your rules.

 

There is nothing to say that the layout needs to make sense from a "reality" perspective, particularly if reality would rule out stock that you would really prefer to use.

 

My comments below are based on trying to go for some sort of expectation of reality, which may not suit what you are aiming for.

 

Your fictional island is 200 miles, for comparison Jamaica is 150 miles.  Jamaica has not much of the railways it had, though some private - resource extration based - railway operations remain.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Jamaica

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6LlXNn_2Y

 

 

You are thinking too big for a small island.

 

Islands typically have cheap infrastructure, short-ish distances, and "island time".

 

To go by the old BR Type system, it would mostly be Type 2 locos with maybe a small number of Type 3 for the coal or stone - but more likely simply run say 2 Type-2's on a train rather than a bigger loco.

 

And certainly none of the newer, more complicated and hence more difficult to repair locos with electronics.

 

This means your 9F, 56's, 47's are all highly unlikely simply because the trackwork wouldn't support them - and there certainly wouldn't be express trains or the resulting Class 50's.  Really likely moved to DMU's, but for model interest better to keep it to say 2 coaches and a loco.

 

From the sounds of things such restrictions may not appeal to you, so perhaps a change to the backstory - a bigger island, less poor so hence more money for infrastructure.  Maybe a "royal" family, or other hereditary ruling system (aka the enlightened dictator) that has deliberately chosen to save the island from the pitfalls of the automobile while investing in the railway.

 

 

Another possibility would be to keep the island as steam operated in the current era - steam engines are (relatively) easy to repair without fancy education (aka electronics) and possibly expensive parts, and with local coal the cost of importing oil is eliminated.

 

The wealth argument makes sense. I'm also looking at my backstory now and wondering how the island ended up poor, given that the railway was supposed to facilitate the spread of the industrial revolution to Clarke Island. The physical size also makes less sense now that I have looked at Ireland (50% larger) and realised that even the Dublin-Belfast service is not all double track. I think I'll keep the fundamental backstory but increase the size to around 600*200 miles (England + Scotland south of Edinburgh/Glasgow).

 

This would make it large enough to order extra units of new designs to work alongside the second-hand locos (there's not much point in spending more than required if you are being offered something with most of its working life remaining at a low cost). The political structure needs to be one of loose affiliation in order to explain the preference for rail - perhaps the local government was granted full political control in exchange for allowing the UK to maintain a large military presence (another form of traffic for the railway of course).

 

Coaches would still be put into service as they were withdrawn from BR (perhaps with retrofitted aircon and new bogies). A new fleet of driving coaches would most likely be produced, with cables added to the coaches which operate on these routes (most likely the newest available at the time). Most goods could probably be carried in containers (refrigerated if required) and hopper/tank wagons could easily be sourced from BR or built new. Are there any other wagons that would definitely be required in a rail-based transport system?

 

Freight operations in the modern era will require creative thinking. Steam era operating practises would not be sufficent on most lines (although you could get away with it on small branches).

[mdvle]

16 hours ago, DK123GWR said:

The wealth argument makes sense. I'm also looking at my backstory now and wondering how the island ended up poor, given that the railway was supposed to facilitate the spread of the industrial revolution to Clarke Island.

 

Simple - the islands started out poor and the 1st world takes advantage of them.

 

Take the Caribbean - the arrival of cheap air fares in the 80s resulted in a tourist boom in the cold winter months to the islands - but they never got the chance to cash in on the boom.  Because at the same time American money came up with the all-inclusive resort.  So the Caribbean Islands get some low wage jobs, an American company parachutes in some management, they wall off the property to discourage guests from experiencing the real island, and the majority of the money that the people on holiday pay never leaves the US.

 

Then comes the cruise ships, and same thing - the money spent on cruises never leaves the US except the token amounts necessary, and the hundreds of guests spend at most a couple of hours with 15 minutes of the docks buying souvenirs made in China.

 

And thus those countries remain poor.

 

16 hours ago, DK123GWR said:

I think I'll keep the fundamental backstory but increase the size to around 600*200 miles (England + Scotland south of Edinburgh/Glasgow).

 

Google Maps gives Brighton to Edinburgh as 375 miles.

 

I think at this point you might be pushing your island in the middle of the Atlantic a bit far, so perhaps consider a different way to get what you want.  Perhaps go for a "alternative history" of the UK where the big 4 remain after WW2 but never have the money to properly upgrade.  So periodically the government funds a diesel build to be shared among the big 4, but the railways in general remain run down as they remain starved for money.  Steam remains far longer because of the coal reserves mean coal is cheap compared to imported oil.  Because BR never exists there is no incentive for a Beeching to cut costs to the treasury, so the railways limp along and any attempts at cutting costs are met with refusal by the government who now (with no money at risk) bow to the wishes of the public to keep services regardless of the losses.  Perhaps for tourist purposes the government provides some money to provide a few "intercity" routes to a more prestige standard.

 

16 hours ago, DK123GWR said:

Most goods could probably be carried in containers (refrigerated if required) and hopper/tank wagons could easily be sourced from BR or built new. Are there any other wagons that would definitely be required in a rail-based transport system?

 

I doubt it would be containers - containers really work where there is a bunch of modal shifts - say truck -> ship -> train -> truck and the receiving location can justify an entire container of a single item.  For example, a small town's food store is unlikely to need an entire container of bananas - they would go bad before most could be sold.

 

Far more likely to have assorted goods wagons loaded at a central warehouse with the assortment of items each town would require - so essentially a variety of wagons with the occasional insulated one for items that need to be kept cool.  Then whatever the industry on your small modeled section needs - whether it be wood, metal, or something else.

[DK123GWR]

On 05/08/2020 at 01:18, mdvle said:

 

Simple - the islands started out poor and the 1st world takes advantage of them.

 

Take the Caribbean - the arrival of cheap air fares in the 80s resulted in a tourist boom in the cold winter months to the islands - but they never got the chance to cash in on the boom.  Because at the same time American money came up with the all-inclusive resort.  So the Caribbean Islands get some low wage jobs, an American company parachutes in some management, they wall off the property to discourage guests from experiencing the real island, and the majority of the money that the people on holiday pay never leaves the US.

 

Then comes the cruise ships, and same thing - the money spent on cruises never leaves the US except the token amounts necessary, and the hundreds of guests spend at most a couple of hours with 15 minutes of the docks buying souvenirs made in China.

 

And thus those countries remain poor.

 

 

Google Maps gives Brighton to Edinburgh as 375 miles.

 

I think at this point you might be pushing your island in the middle of the Atlantic a bit far, so perhaps consider a different way to get what you want.  Perhaps go for a "alternative history" of the UK where the big 4 remain after WW2 but never have the money to properly upgrade.  So periodically the government funds a diesel build to be shared among the big 4, but the railways in general remain run down as they remain starved for money.  Steam remains far longer because of the coal reserves mean coal is cheap compared to imported oil.  Because BR never exists there is no incentive for a Beeching to cut costs to the treasury, so the railways limp along and any attempts at cutting costs are met with refusal by the government who now (with no money at risk) bow to the wishes of the public to keep services regardless of the losses.  Perhaps for tourist purposes the government provides some money to provide a few "intercity" routes to a more prestige standard.

 

 

I doubt it would be containers - containers really work where there is a bunch of modal shifts - say truck -> ship -> train -> truck and the receiving location can justify an entire container of a single item.  For example, a small town's food store is unlikely to need an entire container of bananas - they would go bad before most could be sold.

 

Far more likely to have assorted goods wagons loaded at a central warehouse with the assortment of items each town would require - so essentially a variety of wagons with the occasional insulated one for items that need to be kept cool.  Then whatever the industry on your small modeled section needs - whether it be wood, metal, or something else.

I've been away for a few days so haven't been checking RMweb. I'll read through this in more detail when I get chance but one thing I have noticed is that the 600 miles quoted should be 600 km (my error).

[DK123GWR]

On 05/08/2020 at 01:18, mdvle said:

I think at this point you might be pushing your island in the middle of the Atlantic a bit far, so perhaps consider a different way to get what you want.  Perhaps go for a "alternative history" of the UK where the big 4 remain after WW2 but never have the money to properly upgrade.  So periodically the government funds a diesel build to be shared among the big 4, but the railways in general remain run down as they remain starved for money.  Steam remains far longer because of the coal reserves mean coal is cheap compared to imported oil.  Because BR never exists there is no incentive for a Beeching to cut costs to the treasury, so the railways limp along and any attempts at cutting costs are met with refusal by the government who now (with no money at risk) bow to the wishes of the public to keep services regardless of the losses.  Perhaps for tourist purposes the government provides some money to provide a few "intercity" routes to a more prestige standard.

The trouble with this is that the UK in the 1940s must be used as a geographical starting point. You would also have to bear in mind that the enourmous changes in the history of the railway would have impacted the development of towns. As well as this, the system that you suggest sounds as though it is being stretched unsustainably. Whereas Clarke Island would keep on older locos because there is no need to replace them, the alternative British history would see them kept because there was no way to replace them. In these circumstances, it is hard to imagine that road transport would not take over from rail even more quickly than in real life (unless there was no investment in roads either - which would really leave a crippled economy).

 

On 05/08/2020 at 01:18, mdvle said:

I doubt it would be containers - containers really work where there is a bunch of modal shifts - say truck -> ship -> train -> truck and the receiving location can justify an entire container of a single item.  For example, a small town's food store is unlikely to need an entire container of bananas - they would go bad before most could be sold.

 

Far more likely to have assorted goods wagons loaded at a central warehouse with the assortment of items each town would require - so essentially a variety of wagons with the occasional insulated one for items that need to be kept cool.  Then whatever the industry on your small modeled section needs - whether it be wood, metal, or something else.

Any imports would require at least two modal shifts (road/rail -> ship in the country of origin and ship -> rail on Clarke Island). As for the entire conainer of bannanas, couldn't a system of standardised containers designed to fit into a container allow a mixture of goods requiring similar storage conditions (eg. refrigerated, frozen) to be delivered in a single shipping container? 

[mdvle]

14 hours ago, DK123GWR said:

Any imports would require at least two modal shifts (road/rail -> ship in the country of origin and ship -> rail on Clarke Island). As for the entire conainer of bannanas, couldn't a system of standardised containers designed to fit into a container allow a mixture of goods requiring similar storage conditions (eg. refrigerated, frozen) to be delivered in a single shipping container? 

 

So hypothetically I am ordering lamb from New Zealand, Beef from Argentina, Sugar from Cuba, Oranges from Spain, Bananas from Central America, etc. - how do products from all those geographically separated locations end up in one container?

 

The answer is that they don't, they all arrive in their own containers from separate directions to a distribution warehouse on your island.

[DK123GWR]

 

9 hours ago, mdvle said:

they all arrive in their own containers from separate directions to a distribution warehouse on your island...

...where the mini-containers are removed from the shipping containers, sorted into new ones, and sent on to their destination according to local demand.

While this system would not be as efficient as lifting a container off of the boat and onto the train, that system has already been proven unviable (unless you like rotten bannanas). Would separate types of wagon for each good be any better? It would still require transhipment of goods from the container used on the ship to the wagon, but a standardised system could not be used. This is the best compromise I can find between the efficient transhipment of containerised freight and the need to deliver a variety of goods to each destination. I have discarded leaving most of the containers empty as that would be frightfully expensive and inefficient.

[mdvle]

Containers exist to eliminate the manual handling of goods as transshipment points, for which they excel - but at the cost of requiring extra equipment.

 

This is why containers by train only happens when going from a major transshipment point to a major transshipment point - you don't want expensive equipment in every town.

 

Let's consider your fictional village still receiving goods by rail.  If they arrive in a traditional goods wagon (or via something along the lines of a Syphon or a Mk1 BG) then they can be put into a siding and unloaded at the village easily - whether by backing a lorry (or horse wagon) up directly to the side of the wagon or by using a platform - where something like the the BRUTE's could be used to semi-achieve what you want.

 

Now if you ship to this village via a container you run into a problem - you can't directly unload.  Containers have doors that only open on the ends, and while that works when on a lorry or on the ground it doesn't work so well on a goods carriage.  So now you need to put an expensive piece of (likely dedicated) equipment in the village to transfer the container onto a lorry - and the fact that it isn't done anywhere in the real world tells us this simply isn't economically or practically viable.

[DK123GWR]

So would you agree that with Siphons/BGs/CCTs/GUVs (depending upon era, availability, and required capacity) the same fundamental system could work?

To clarify, it is now:

1) Product manufactured or grown abroad

2) Product transported to Clarke Island

3) Freight (mostly containerised) transported to distribution centre by train

4) Containers opened at distribution centre; goods placed in warehouse or onto distribution trains as required

5) Distribution trains (formed of BGs or similar) run from distribution centre to stations/yards

6) Goods unloaded at station/yard* and distributed locally by road

 

*Could this include adding/removing wagons at yards serving large population centres? This could help to reduce the time the train is stationary if the unloading would take a long time. On the other hand, extended stops could be used to allow passenger trains to overtake.

[mdvle]

On 10/08/2020 at 14:04, DK123GWR said:

So would you agree that with Siphons/BGs/CCTs/GUVs (depending upon era, availability, and required capacity) the same fundamental system could work?

To clarify, it is now:

1) Product manufactured or grown abroad

2) Product transported to Clarke Island

3) Freight (mostly containerised) transported to distribution centre by train

4) Containers opened at distribution centre; goods placed in warehouse or onto distribution trains as required

5) Distribution trains (formed of BGs or similar) run from distribution centre to stations/yards

6) Goods unloaded at station/yard* and distributed locally by road

 

*Could this include adding/removing wagons at yards serving large population centres? This could help to reduce the time the train is stationary if the unloading would take a long time. On the other hand, extended stops could be used to allow passenger trains to overtake.

 

First, your layout and you get to make the decisions - and ultimately how realistic it is, and what compromises are acceptable, is all up to you.  If you want to run containers because containers interest you, then perhaps trying to be as realistic as the real world shouldn't be as important.

 

For realism, yes the above seems reasonable (though I am certainly not an expert) - though you could just as easily use any variety of freight wagon that is enclosed and has a side door (what UK freight wagons are called is something I don't know).

 

Certainly in your system there would be some specialty wagon that were insulated and would keep frozen stuff frozen, and cold stuff cold.  Though this doesn't have to be something that was designed for that, it could be something else modified with a bolt on freezer unit.

 

In your case you could make an argument either way, as it would depend on what BR found surplus and thus willing to sell of cheap - which inherently means frequently not necessarily having the best solution.

 

As for operations, it depends and you can have a bit of flexibility depending on how much space you have.  If the good are easy to move (ie. the BR Brutes or the modern way of sealing stuff onto wooden palettes to be moved with a forklift/hand lift then a wagon could be emptied reasonably quickly.  In this case a slow scheduled train can just sit there for the 15 minutes or so while the stuff is unloaded.  Alternatively you could have a siding for the wagon to be shunted into and left behind.  Sort of comes down to what you want - but the advantage of shunting something into a siding(s) is that it is extra stuff to actually do on the layout vs. just started/stopping a train.

 

You could even do a mix of both - have frozen and other non-perishable items get shunted to a siding for leisurely unloading, and have perishables on a passenger/mixed train that maybe results in a 5 minute station stop for the small amount of perishables to be unloaded.

 

As for having a passenger train overtake, you could certainly put that into how things operate even if things are getting unloaded - have a local all-stops train pull into a secondary platform while an limited stop "express" goes through (either non-stop if a small station, or even with stopping if a more important station - think maybe an important land owner rather than just station size).

 

The thing to consider is that unless you are modeling say London most lines don't have a continuous stream of trains - a busy line could be 1 train every 10/15 minutes, and more typical might be one every 30 minutes or more.  This, while not great for operating a layout, means that there is more time for doing shunting at a station without thinking you need to allow trains to get past - just add them if you really want the complication.

[DK123GWR]

13 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

First, your layout and you get to make the decisions - and ultimately how realistic it is, and what compromises are acceptable, is all up to you.  If you want to run containers because containers interest you, then perhaps trying to be as realistic as the real world shouldn't be as important.

 

For realism, yes the above seems reasonable (though I am certainly not an expert) - though you could just as easily use any variety of freight wagon that is enclosed and has a side door (what UK freight wagons are called is something I don't know).

I'm not too attatched to the containers - it was merely a guess at how the transportation of good might work in such a situation.

 

Regarding opertations, I think this migh be something to look at in more detail when I decide to build a specific layout as it will clearly vary between each location.