Wright's Siding, Vale of Llangollen. Info sought

[mike morley]

A couple of years ago I bought Thomas and Southern's Oakwood Press book about Industrial Tramways in the Vale of Llangollen.  From the day it arrived it was obvious that it was one of my better recent purchases but it's only the Coronavirus crisis that's enabled me to sit down and give it the attention it deserves.

Of particular interest is Wright's Siding, between Llangollen and Trevor; an interchange between the GWR Ruabon to Llangollen line, the Llangollen Canal and one of several tramways in close proximity, all serving the limestone quarries high on the side of the valley. 

I'd like to learn more but am not getting very far.  Google "Wrights siding" and you get swamped with information about a large timber company in Little Rock, Arkansas - even if you use Google.co.uk, rather than Google. com.  Try "Trevor" (or Trefor) instead and your screen fills with information about the big quarry on the Lleyn Peninsular.  The book I've got appears to be the only one on the subject by the Oakwood Press.  I've ordered "The Railways of the Dee Valley" but that it was published by the Llangollen Railway makes me suspect its main focus will be further west than I'm looking at.  Can anyone either provide or point me in the direction of further info?

Looking at the OS map and the frustratingly few pictures on Geograph.org.uk makes me suspect there's enough left to make a field trip worth the effort (And anything called a "Panorama Walk" is worth investigating if its in North Wales, particularly if you suspect it runs along the course of the tramway that used to connect the various quarries).  Can anyone with better knowledge of the area than I (I've been to Llangollen just once) offer any advice?

PS.  The tramway descends the side of the valley by an incline that at its foot ducks under the A5 to find both the canal and the railway running across its path, forcing an abrupt near-right angle turn.  Change "A5" for "A6" and that's a description of Cromford Wharf on the CHPR.

[franciswilliamwebb]

 

I've not watched this video, but it's in the right area!

[mike morley]

It's in exactly the right (wright?) area and told me far more than I'd hoped for.  Thank you!

It also convinced me a field trip would be more than worthwhile.

[Gordon A]

Here is the plot of Wright's Siding from a 25" OS map, showing Bryn-Howel house referred to in the video.

 

 

The siding is to the east of Llangollen.

I suspect this would have been subject to a private siding agreement with the GWR(?) where you might find a few more details.

Another source of information might be with English Heritage as they hold all the early RAF photos from their photographic survey of the UK.

 

I have tried to enlarge the track plan to show the track layout in more detail.

 

In this plan  you can see the tramway coming down the hillside from the top left hand side of the map, passing under the road where a siding turns off to the right on to a loading bank. The loading bank is served by the head shunt of the standard gauge siding.

The winding drum is also shown at the top of the tramway incline.

As this was the only limestone wharf to survive the arrival of the railways as it was the only one to have a siding and the tramway runs right down to the edge of the canal, I wonder if limestone from any adjacent quarries was moved the short distance by barge and transhipped to rail at this wharf.

Note the trap point in the siding just after it leaves the main line.

 

An interesting bit of industrial / railway history in the Llangollen area.

 

Gordon A

[mike morley]

That kick-back siding and what appears to be a goods shed-like structure on it, immediately below the "740" and "2.924" intrigue me.  What were they for?

[Gordon A]

Your guess ..........

It could be a cutting shed for the limestone blocks?

[mike morley]

I woke up at 3 this morning and, inevitably, hindered my attempts to get back to sleep by mulling this over.

One of the things I mulled over was Gordon's suggestion that the building was a stone cutting shed but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.  Stone cutting sheds were usually quite big - a lot of them were enormous - and that one quite clearly wasn't.  I did wonder if it might be a weighbridge hut but, having looked at the map again in the cold (alright, warm and humid) light of day I feel it's too far down the siding for that to be likely.  I also think a weighbridge is more likely to have been on the loop, rather than the siding.

The way I imagine it being worked is that tramway wagons loaded with limestone destined for forwarding by canal would come down the incline into one side of the loop (almost certainly the side that also served the loading bank).  Once there they would be dealt with in similar fashion to coal wagons in the docks of South Wales, with individual wagons being pushed forward, tipped, then run back, probably aided by gravity, into the other side of the loop to await hauling back up the incline to the quarry. 

That the railway headshunt extends so far beyond the loading bank (the way it goes under the tramway loop must have made it quite tricky and therefore expensive to build; not something you'd do without good reason) makes me suspect a variation on the theme was used by the GWR.  I imagine a loco propelling a rake of wagons up one side of the loop and leaving them parked at the far end of the headshunt, beyond the loading bank, then gravity being used again to bring them back to the bank when required for loading then rolled on to the other side of loop once full to await collection by the next pick-up goods.

With that method of working the only role I see for the siding is as an overflow siding, but it would have been quite awkward to work and I can't help feeling that if overflow facilities were needed, a second set of points to turn it into another loop would have been more likely.  And that still doesn't explain what the small building beside was or might have been.

[corneliuslundie]

I assume that this canal was part of the Shropshire Union system. There is a good recent history published by the RCHS (I borrowed it from the library) which might say something about this wharf, though I do not remember anything.

Jonathan

[Gordon A]

Denbighshire County Archives are located in Ruthin.

 

[tanatvalley]

The Ruabon to Barmouth line book by Martin Williams, has a very short piece on the siding on page 59, siding constructed around 1900 for Henry Robertson. In 1908 a small signal box known as Wright’s siding signal box was installed. The box was used to break up the section between Trevor and Llangollen, by the 20s services were of reduced frequency so the box was only open when shunting was required. The siding was removed around the time of WW2.

 

The extent to which blocks would need “cutting” depends upon the jointing (tensile stresses) in the limestone.
 

Alan

[mike morley]

There were four or five limestone quarries in the immediate vicinity and they were eventually connected by a tramway that appears to now form the basis of the Panorama Walk.  They are all dealt with in the same chapter of the Oakwood book and although it isn't entirely clear I'm fairly sure most, if not all, had lime kilns and I'm equally sure none of them produced stone for building use, in which case cutting would not be necessary.

[malcolmcelyn]

Bryn Howell house is now Bryn Howell hotel. At one time, I lived within a mile or two of this place and never knew of its existence! Beautiful walks along The Panorama, plenty of evidence of spoil heaps and the like. I do vaguely recall some sort of incline heading down from the roadway.