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Building a control panel.....


gordon s
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By the way 

 

my latest panel is 3mm dibond in white 

 

this is then drilled for 3mm flat top leds that lie flush with the surface Using a copy mimic as a drilling template 

 

the mimic is printed on transparent acrylic vinyl and glued to the dibond 

 

hence no holes in the vinyl means easy cleaning , no rough edges and the precision of the holes  doesn’t have to be exactly precise 

 

Dave 

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Just to complete the circle, DHL have just delivered my first panel from Germany. Really well packed and the product is first class. It comes with metal plates on the back and two huge circular magnets that will hold anything in place. The panel has a lovely satin sheen and the printing is first class.

 

I really cannot fault it and at £28 including delivery it would be hard to beat,

 

The panel size is 600 x 200 and it's made from 3mm Dibond material, which is two thin sheets of aluminium separated by a black plastic separator.

 

Total cost £28 including DHL delivery. Perfectly flat and strong in 3mm material. Just a shame to have to drill 200 x 3mm holes in it....:D

 

It will be interesting to see how it compares to a second version of the same panel from a cheaper supplier.

 

£21.14 for the same size, same plan, same material, delivered.

 

DSCF1214.jpg.a708a54bb173670986c0db661a2ce555.jpg

 

DSCF1216.jpg.c37091f4b1f2aac9962d7c94e52e521f.jpg

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Gordon,

looking good, and like others, I’m keen to learn from your experience. But I’m unlikely to be as lucky as you with the overall dimensions, in that the standard size options won’t fit my panel. What’s your view about the practicality of cutting the dibond, and how? Knife, saw?

thanks

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2 hours ago, ITG said:

....... I’m unlikely to be as lucky as you with the overall dimensions, in that the standard size options won’t fit my panel. What’s your view about the practicality of cutting the dibond, and how? Knife, saw? ........

 

These printed panels are not limited to standard sizes.

You just choose the custom size option and they will produce whatever size you want, down to the mm, subject to minimum and maximum sizes.

 

IMHO, whatever you do, don't consider trying to cut the panel down to size.

 

.

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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Optimal print look the least likely company to use IMHO.

There are quite a lot of others, who almost all offer custom size options.

 

For example...

https://www.supersizeprint.co.uk/material.aspx?BaseProductID=32

 

Sizing can be done in metres, cm, mm, inches or feet. 
Just choose the unit of measurement, when selecting the custom dimensions.

 

 

..

 

 

 

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Hi Guys

 

I see we've moved on since I last posted. I hadn't realised Optimalprint didn't offer custom sizes, but they have a wide range. Maybe I was just lucky.....

 

The Supersizeprint panel has just arrived and there is nothing to choose between them. The outer packaging from both companies was superb with a heavily glued box that really was a challenge to get into. I suspect there is little chance of damage to your panel, so 10/10 for both companies.

 

Print wise, I cannot separate them....both 10/10 again....

 

DSCF1222.jpg.3a1b3d000d6c0bc6a5aa3f81ca7d5a92.jpg

 

Optimalprint at the top, Supersizeprint at the bottom. The only difference is that Optimalprint leave 'sharp' corners, which I like. Supersizeprint radius their corners.

 

DSCF1225.jpg.8bebc63232ae1a65c0a8e83a2e1735a2.jpg

 

Overall, I cannot fault either company. £28 from Optimalprint or £21 from Supersizeprint. Just one word on pricing though. Like many high volume companies these days pricing can change at any time. Both companies offered significant 'discounts'. Whether this was a first order basis or driven by volume etc, I don't know, but clearly the prices can change and probably does depending on how they are and who you are.....;)

 

These really are very good panels. Strong. lightweight, good print quality and to my mind exceptional value.

 

I have yet to drill them out for led's as it's been too hot and in any case I need to choose one to fit led's with the other one as a backup when I drill holes in the wrong place.....:D

 

Take your pick. You could use either company and expect in return a quality product. Of course the end result is subject to the quality of the print file you send them, so very much in your court.

Edited by gordon s
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Thanks Gordon and Ron,

by chance, as I had to enquire about a print job for a charity I’m involved with, I asked a local printer if they did this work. The reply was they had an associate locally who did, and who would pre-drill holes for LEDs and buttons/switches, on custom size panels. I’m just waiting for an price estimate based on my guesswork of how many holes would be needed. I have two 450x220 mm panels I need; one for the just laid twin track mainline circuit, reverse loop and storage roads, and a second for the high-level terminus station which isn’t built yet, and therefore may be subject to evolutionary fine tuning.

I’ll keep folk updated.

Ian

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Great information, thanks everyone.

I've recently been pondering how to build my control panel, so this is very timely :).

I'm thinking of having the enclosure made up as a custom job by one of the laser baseboard suppliers.

For the mimic and switch panels I'd settled on the ply, paper, acrylic sandwich idea but the dibond looks to knock that into a cocked hat.

I've just placed an order with PremierPrint (https://www.premierprint.co.uk/) so I'll post a photo when it arrives.

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GWR, I obtained my consoles from Model Railway Solutions as a laser cut 6mm ply kit. No connection other than as satisfied customer. So my plan is to get the panels as per this thread, and either overlay on top of the ply, drilling larger clearance holes (For LEDs, buttons etc)  in the ply underneath the dibond, or, even replace the ply with the dibond completely.


I’ve now had the local quote, £24+VAT for each panel, and another £19 each panel if they drill all the LED/button holes. I don’t think Gordon had holes drilled in his, so the base price is similar to his cost. I probably will let them do the drilling as the precision and cut is likely to be better than I can do. 
I will post progress reports, but there may be a delay as I have still to determine the best way to produce the digital artwork. My layout plan was drawn in Anyrail, so will start there. Any other suggestions any one?

Ian

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Depends how many holes in your panel, but £19 sounds very reasonable. When searching around I was quoted prices up to a £0.60 per hole and with 150-200 holes in my panel, that wasn't an option. The biggest problem when drilling by hand or in a bench drill is the alignment of holes and it doesn't take much to be a fraction of a mm out. Normally that's not an issue, but once you get into possible 'route illumination', one hole out of line in a line of 6 really sticks out. Still working on a way to overcome that possibility.

 

Going back to pricing, I saw this paragraph on the Supersizeprint website this morning, so you will get similar prices every time.

 

1111131380_Screenshot2020-08-15at09_34_39.png.7599e7bc1f41cb891c1f9e7ffbbfe279.png

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, ITG said:

GWR, I obtained my consoles from Model Railway Solutions as a laser cut 6mm ply kit.

 

Unfortunately Model Railway Solutions are not taking any orders for bespoke work at present, nor is Tim Horn.

 

3 hours ago, ITG said:

I will post progress reports, but there may be a delay as I have still to determine the best way to produce the digital artwork. My layout plan was drawn in Anyrail, so will start there. Any other suggestions any one?

 

I drew mine up in QCAD and saved it as a pdf to send to the printers.

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10 hours ago, gordon s said:

...........The biggest problem when drilling by hand or in a bench drill is the alignment of holes and it doesn't take much to be a fraction of a mm out. Normally that's not an issue, but once you get into possible 'route illumination', one hole out of line in a line of 6 really sticks out. Still working on a way to overcome that possibility.

 

 

If you have a drilling machine (bench drill, drill press, etc..), then clamping a straight edge to the base of the machine (bit of straight timber, or a decent section of metal angle) and sliding the panel against the edge will ensure all holes are in a straight line.   So, once the edge is set for the first hole, the rest follow very quickly.   The straight edge can be at any angle that suits the job, and there are usually suitable holes for a nut/bolt through the base of the press to do this. 
 

For diagonal lines it gets a little more involved, but a straight edge (bit of timber) clamped to the panel at the required angle can be used against the straight edge fitted to the machine.  One approach would be to put this edge under the panel, fixed in place using the "parallel to edge" holes drilled earlier (with a suitable scrap of plasticard to protect the upper surface when fixed screws through to the edge.   You'll probably need a few packing blocks to get this to work.   

 

Neither method above covers spacing (ie. want all holes to be exactly 31.29mm apart), you have to judge that yourself.   

 

 

- Nigel

 

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Gordon (and others)

I shared the notion of using dibond on another forum, and a modeller queried if the print adhesion on the dibond would rub off in time, with fingers  rubbing against it. What do others think, or have experienced?

ian

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3 hours ago, gordon s said:

Of course I have no idea yet, but my thought was to recess the led's flush to the surface and then add a 2mm clear acrylic front panel which would be wipe clean and protect the print.

Mmm, because my LEDs will also be buttons (DCC Concepts alpha mimic panel), as well as push buttons for servo uncoupler operation, I cannot really cover my proposed panel. I’ve asked my tame local printer for an opinion/suggestion, maybe about glossing or laminating.

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5 hours ago, ITG said:

Gordon (and others)

I shared the notion of using dibond on another forum, and a modeller queried if the print adhesion on the dibond would rub off in time, with fingers  rubbing against it. What do others think, or have experienced?

ian


Most of the printers offer laminated finishes to protect the surface. 
e.g. Gloss, Satin, Matt and wipe clean or graffiti proof.

 

Supersized Prints, for example, offer 5 options......

 

Anti-graffiti Laminate - (Gloss Finish)

Gloss Lamination

Lamination - Dry Wipe (Write on, Wipe off)

No Lamination

Satin Lamination

Textured Lamination (Scuff Resistant)

 


On durability, I don’t know how well the print will really hold up to heavy use, but here are some quotes about it......

 

“Dibond is one of the strongest and long-lasting printing signage on the market that even if exposed to harsh weather, is decompose proof and resistant to fading.”


“So, how long do metal prints last? The Rochester Institute of Technology tested metal prints to last up to 4 times longer than archival silver halide photographic prints which last about 40 years. Since they are printed on aluminum, metal prints are also water proof.”

 

“Dibond is an aluminium composite sheet material that is robust, hard wearing and designed to withstand heavy duty wear and tear. It is ideal for direct printing of high quality full colour images for indoor and outdoor applications.“


 

There’s another method of printing on Dibond, called HD printing, which is a die sublimation process, that heat fuses the ink into the surface layer. That certainly wouldn’t wear out, but it’s a much more expensive product.

 

 

 

 

.

 

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My dibond panel arrived from PremierPrint:

DSC02724.JPG.842efd54b1bfa544e9b8758572ce32d8.JPG

 

Overall I'm very pleased with the result. The colours and print resolution are an exact match to my original PDF file.

The panel measures 306mm square, which is the smallest they allow (I had specified 310mm square).

The circles with an X are where leds and switches will go, so the X gives me an exact point to aim for with the drill.

 

The panel was very well packed and protected for shipping, but despite that there are a couple of scrapes on the surface, circled in red:

DSC02718.JPG.2c4716a675a9f324240da1e92b40baa8.JPG

 

These must have been done either prior to or during packing, as the outer packaging was not damaged in any way. Pity.

I am also a bit concerned about how durable the printed surface will be, so I've ordered some clear sticky-back plastic to cover it with, to give it a bit more protection. For the price (£13.66 inc VAT & delivery) I can't fault it. I ordered it gone midnight last Friday/Saturday morning and it was delivered today (Thursday) less than a week later. Amazing - how did we manage before internet shopping?

 

A bit more detail:

DSC02722.JPG.66ea70eca2cbd63635002c1a9ce25c68.JPG

 

DSC02723.JPG.aa4135e2aa92755cdf010ee11907af69.JPG

 

The panel is 3mm thick, which is ideal for mounting switches and leds and also rigid so won't need any support except at the edges.

DSC02721.JPG.d734f6357feae149df4fd84e0f931a72.JPG

 

Eventually I plan to mount it in an enclosure made from 6mm ply. My cardboard mock-up to prove the concept:

DSC02719.JPG.11bff817d739d9b0c90cda094128b686.JPG

 

DSC02720.JPG.e2962eccf1a685abf152993be010694f.JPG

 

(The final version will be a couple of inches deeper at the back).

 

I'll need to bend the panel through approx 60 degrees which will involve cutting through the back aluminium sheet across the full width then carefully bending to the right shape. I was originally going to order the switch panel separate to the led display panel, but PremierPrint's minimum size requirement wouldn't allow this, so I thought I'd try this approach instead. What could possibly go wrong??

 

My DXF file with plans for the enclosure are in the queue with Grainge & Hodder to be laser cut, so will be several weeks before they arrive.

 

I think this is going to work out vastly better than what I had previously thought I could achieve 🙂

Edited by GWR57xx
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On 20/08/2020 at 17:06, GWR57xx said:

 

My DXF file with plans for the enclosure are in the queue with Grainge & Hodder to be laser cut, so will be several weeks before they arrive.

 

I think this is going to work out vastly better than what I had previously thought I could achieve 🙂

 

A parcel arrived late last night:

DSC02725.JPG.587c3a7466de89c024b6d513c6670b08.JPG

 

Superb service from Grainge & Hodder - I wasn't expecting this so quickly.

 

Slots together beautifully:

DSC02728.JPG.22e52c99b5cd9c5099c5dca9d78b84c5.JPG

 

I'd better get on with drilling and folding the dibond panel... 

Very happy - hope my finished control panel does it justice 🙂

 

Edited by GWR57xx
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On 02/09/2020 at 17:50, Junctionmad said:

How will you fold dibond ! 

 

I intend to make a straight cut along the fold line through the back sheet of aluminium and most of the inner layer, leaving just the front sheet of aluminium to be folded (found an online video showing this approach, seemed to work fine).

When doing the fold I'll need to clamp the edge (the video showed a manufacturer's special tool for doing this, so I'll have to improvise).

Hope it works! 😧

Edited by GWR57xx
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