Guest Jack Benson Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Hi, Is the Peco Loco Lift suitable for use as a cassette, I am fed up trying to source brass L section and then slicing it to create cassettes. The entire train will be three or four 16t and a Hornby Peckett W4. Thanks and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, 21C1 said: The Peco Loco Lift is only big enough for a loco, but you can join them together lengthwise. Most people however use Aluminium L section for cassettes not brass. B&Q have plenty suitable. Sorry but B&Q Aluminium is anodised and does not conduct. The Loco Lift is 304mm plenty long enough, so, let’s ask the question again, can the Loco Lift be used a cassette albeit for just very small locos and wagons. Cheers and Stay Safe Edited August 3, 2020 by Jack Benson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Individual parts of the loco lift can usually be purchased from Peco if that assists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2020 In answer to the question, no reason why not but at around 12" long the train length is going to be very limited even with a Peckett as motive power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted August 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2020 The loco lift is popular for micro layouts. Many folk omit the foam sides. The loco lift works best when you can place it on top of some fixed straight track. It fits snugly onto Peco code 75 but won't fit on top of SMP Scaleway. The loco lift might seem pricey if you need several of them, otherwise it is a fine small cassette. - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Richard, mention was made of them used in multiple, do you clip two together? There is no intention to run more than one train, we just wanted a cassette for turning the train around. We will use it with a foamboard project therefore a simple solution was sought. Thanks for all the advice, we found out the hard way that B&Q’s current supply of aluminium angle is anodised but not before a weekend was wasting making six cassettes. And before anyone suggests otherwise mechanically removing the anodisation was almost impossible. That replacements were brass angle to cost £85 for enough for four 24” cassettes. LocoLifts are a cheap alternative. Cheers and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2020 I have had the same experience with Aluminium section from a German DIY outlet and also had to resort to Brass. This was pre-loco-lift days so no other alternative. If you wanted to connect two together the simplest solution would be to solder them onto a length of rail set into the underside of the copper "rail" of the lift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Well, don’t go to B&Q then......I think I got mine from wickes. Locolifts are OK, but mine has become a tad unreliable in its electrical contact . It is after all just a stamped bit of metal under there 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) The late and sadly missed Jack Trollope aka Shortliner of this parish made regular use of double-length Peco Loco Lifts for his micro layouts in a number of ingenious ways. There's a description of how he made them on the late Carl Arendt's fascinating web site: https://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-80-december-2008/#4 Have a look at Jack's layout topics for examples of how he used them in practice: (Jack also had an aversion to the use of alu angle, believing that it caused contamination of the normal rails and caused pickup and running problems.) Edited August 4, 2020 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 12 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Sorry but B&Q Aluminium is anodised and does not conduct. The Loco Lift is 304mm plenty long enough, so, let’s ask the question again, can the Loco Lift be used a cassette albeit for just very small locos and wagons. Cheers and Stay Safe Sorry Jack but I disagree with your statement. I have built cassettes for Newbridge Sidings from B&Q aluminium angle which worked fine. They do conduct electricity - ask Tim V. He got a DCC shock when lifting a cassette away from the head shunt. The answer was to put a length of masking tape along the outside of one of the angles. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2020 13 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Sorry but B&Q Aluminium is anodised and does not conduct. No one has told my aluminium....all from B&Q and used for 4mm and 7mm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Some of it is and some isn’t at B&Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Funny how folks come out of the woodwork and start arguing, nothing else better to do or just a typical RMweb trait? If we are going to drag chums into the issue in order to prove a point, Neil K* found the problem of anodised aluminium and as I bought it from B&Q, then it is safe to call it as such. So let's have a little less negativity and a little more understanding that there may be some background to the problem, OK? *He also replaced the duff cassettes with brass versions, is that OK with you? Cheers and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 I think the advice should be that if you buy aluminium section for cassettes, go armed with a multimeter. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said: I think the advice should be that if you buy aluminium section for cassettes, go armed with a multimeter. Hi, I think the answer has already been mentioned, repeatedly. However a simple U construction of 3mm ply with a 16" section of track inside will be just as useful and much cheaper. Cheers and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 57 minutes ago, Jack Benson said: Funny how folks come out of the woodwork and start arguing, nothing else better to do or just a typical RMweb trait? If we are going to drag chums into the issue in order to prove a point, Neil K* found the problem of anodised aluminium and as I bought it from B&Q, then it is safe to call it as such. So let's have a little less negativity and a little more understanding that there may be some background to the problem, OK? *He also replaced the duff cassettes with brass versions, is that OK with you? Cheers and Stay Safe Wow , you ask for help and debunk anybody whose opinion differs . Try some anger management or just some manners 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, rob D2 said: Wow , you ask for help and debunk anybody whose opinion differs . Try some anger management or just some manners Hi, I would not dare to criticise the manners of others however I asked for help about the Loco Lift not opinions about my use of anodised aluminium L section from B&Q. I dislike contentious comments from those who are unaware of the full background but I do not think that pleading for "a little less negativity and a little more understanding that there may be some background to the problem" is indicative of either anger or discourtesy. In fact, quite the reverse. Finally, in response to those who believe anodised aluminium will conduct electricity this Link will take you to an industry information site. Btw, the subject of anodised aluminium has been raised on RMweb on at least one previous occasion with similar consequences. Cheers and Stay Safe Edited August 4, 2020 by Jack Benson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 “ come out the woodwork “, “ nothing else better to do “, “ mentioned repeatedly “.“ is that ok with you ?” Don't be disingenuous , nothing to do with asking for less negativity - your above comments are abrasive 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 14 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Richard, mention was made of them used in multiple, do you clip two together? There is no intention to run more than one train, we just wanted a cassette for turning the train around. We will use it with a foamboard project therefore a simple solution was sought. Thanks for all the advice, we found out the hard way that B&Q’s current supply of aluminium angle is anodised but not before a weekend was wasting making six cassettes. And before anyone suggests otherwise mechanically removing the anodisation was almost impossible. That replacements were brass angle to cost £85 for enough for four 24” cassettes. LocoLifts are a cheap alternative. Cheers and Stay Safe To be honest with you I regard the Loco Lift as a last resort thing where I want to remove a train from the middle of the layout rather than the fiddle yard. I've never thought of trying to clip two together, I don't think they are designed to do this. I use the TrainSafe system, with 600 and 1200 mm tubes. They do shorter ones too, and I suggest you examine their range before committing to the Loco Lift. The contrast between the British and the Continental ways of doing the same thing couldn't be more stark! - Richard. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 There is a company in Bath called Avery, Knight & Bowler that supply engineering supplies and tools and they have a shop counter. I bought aluminium angle from there. It worked out cheaper that B&Q. I would have thought that there would be a similar company in Yeovil or Salisbury on one of the trading estates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Sorry but B&Q Aluminium is anodised and does not conduct. B&Q's web site lists both plain and anodised aluminium angle, e.g: https://www.diy.com/departments/aluminium-l-shaped-equal-angle-h-30mm-w-30mm-l-2-5m/3232637405003_BQ.prd https://www.diy.com/departments/anodised-l-shaped-angle-profile-l-2m-w-30mm/236477_BQ.prd Note that the anodised product is £9.24 a metre vs £6 a metre for the plain. Plain aluminium has a coating of non-conductive Aluminium Oxide (Al2O3 aka alumina) which forms spontaneously (and rapidly) on exposure of "raw" aluminium to oxygen e.g. in the atmosphere (a process called "passivation"). But that coating is very thin (~4nm) so doesn't normally cause major problems even at model railway operating voltages. (Discussions I have seen online describe the breakdown voltage of a film of alumina that thin as being "a few volts"). Anodising is an industrial electrolytic passivation process that creates a thicker oxide layer which, as well as providing increased corrosion resistance (when properly sealed), is also more resistive than the naturally occurring alumina layer. The pure* aluminium inside the oxide coating (natural or anodised) is, of course, a very good conductor. As an example: it's used for overhead power transmission lines. * Actually most likely to be an alloy of at least 90% aluminium with one or more other alloying elements such as copper, zinc, magnesium, manganese, and silicon. Edited August 4, 2020 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2020 5 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Funny how folks come out of the woodwork and start arguing, nothing else better to do or just a typical RMweb trait? If we are going to drag chums into the issue in order to prove a point, Neil K* found the problem of anodised aluminium and as I bought it from B&Q, then it is safe to call it as such. So let's have a little less negativity and a little more understanding that there may be some background to the problem, OK? *He also replaced the duff cassettes with brass versions, is that OK with you? Cheers and Stay Safe Not negativity and not worthy of your response. Your statement was unequivocal and wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 7 hours ago, JZ said: There is a company in Bath called Avery, Knight & Bowler that supply engineering supplies and tools and they have a shop counter. I bought aluminium angle from there. It worked out cheaper that B&Q. I would have thought that there would be a similar company in Yeovil or Salisbury on one of the trading estates. Hi JZ, Thanks, I made a homemade LocoLift, easy with some 3mm ply and a strip of track. Nice and light, practical. And thanks to those who responded with advice concerning LocoLifts, as Andy Hayter (and others) correctly suggested they are just a little too short at 309mm, the home made version is long enough for three 16t minerals and the W4. Cheers and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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