EFE Rail launches

[Butler Henderson]

7 hours ago, JohnR said:

I think there has, and it seems to be easily available at around the £100 - £110 mark from various retailers. The higher price for this version is what made me think it was a newly tooled model.

Current list prices going from Kernows web site are £129.99 unweathered (3524 D7076 two tone green FYE and 35281 D7004  blue syp) £139.99 weathered for the Heljan boxed models 3524 (35291 7001 blue FYE) which presumably were made a year or two or three back. The EFE boxed new production is £20 dearer unweathered, £30 weathered.

[Bulliedman]

Don't want to be a party pooper but £34b for a single N gauge wagon !!!

[Tricky-CRS]

25 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

 

The King CAD work went to KR Models and I believe the Shark too so unless there is some collaboration I suspect not.

 

On the other hand there was some CAD work done on the J94 and Baby Deltic and there were supposedly some other wagons in gestation (LSWR Road Van for one) so maybe these may be next?

 

Roy

The CAD and tooling may be 2 completely different thinks now, tooling owned by the factory able to produce. CAD or a version of sold by administrator but with no direct factory back up or support. I would back the player who holds the tooling either partial or complete and has a working factory.

 

I wish all parties great success.

[Captain Kernow]

This is very interesting and a complete surprise to me, as I received a BRM e-mail with the release information on it and had a quick look through it, before starting my on-line Mongolian For Beginners course.

 

However, the unsettling notion of Heljan Hymeks in non-Heljan boxes could make me come over all Sheldon Cooper.

 

[Markwj]

I didn’t get it and then I was on the rails website ordering some wagons and realised they have totally opened up the market for these models and they are suddenly much more visible to a wider audience! In particular the Kernow models which were only available through them previously. Although the hymek has still left me scratching my head to be honest!

In the video it was stated that Kernow have reworked the chassis on the J94 I am keen to see how these have turned out.

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Aside from any natural cost increases over the intervening period if they had been correctly priced to cover the tooling adaptations and additions made during development then the outcome may have been different rather than obliging customers who would like to see models made without any profit or commercial sustainability.

 

It does help explain how DJM failed to make money from the J94 selling them at an rrp of £99.95 or whatever the pence were.....

 

I did tell him he had underpriced them by about a tenner at the time.

Just a thought.

Les

[maico]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 I owned a converted EFE tube with two Tenshodo motors, it ran like a pig on my track, very poor on corners, barely pulled itself and ultimately ran it as a 3 car, then later as a 2 car.
The problem seemed to be lack of weight, pickups & manoeuvrability, I was resold for £400, I could have easily spent months on perfecting it, but I made a profit so let it go.

 

I’ll be very pleased to see a Bachmann motorised tube, I assume its drawing on experience from the previous Tube set from the main range this should be a great model, especially as its at the price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 1938 tube is £297 at Rails for a 4 car set, 2 of which have coreless motors as far as I can work out.

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40881/efe-rail-e99939-oo-gauge-london-underground-1938-tube-stock-4-car-motorised-train-1960s-northern-line-set

[PhilJ W]

I have just come across the news of the motorised EFE tube stock. I wonder if the bodies are the same as the 'static' stock or modified/adapted to take the power units. If they are unmodified it should be easy to swap the motor units over to the existing EFE tube stock. Hopefully EFE Rail will see fit to offer the motorised chassis alone to enable existing stock to be motorised. 

[MarkSG]

Some interesting moves there. Like others, I'm a little puzzled by the logic behind some of the EFE branded products - resurrecting (and improving) former DJM products makes sense, but the inclusion of Heljan items seems a little left-field. Not that I'm in the market for a Hymek, but if I was, why would I buy one in an EFE box rather than a Heljan box? Or, for that matter, vice versa? I get that EFE will benefit from wider distribution, particularly into smaller, local model shops, than Heljan, but I'd be surprised if it makes a huge amount of difference to sales. I wonder if this is possibly the beginnings of Heljan withdrawing from the distribution sector altogether, and simply making models for others to distribute. Maintaining a dealer network is not without cost, and it may be that Heljan have worked out that the savings from not having a dealer network are worth the cost of sharing the revenue with a separate distributor. Especially if the distributor (ie, EFE) has better reach and thus increases sales volume.

 

Of the products themselves, I'm quite pleased (for the sake of my wallet!) that there's nothing which leaps out at me as a must-buy. The NCB Austerity "Amazon" certainly is a nice looking model, but, realistically, how many J94s does a man need? The tube train is a possible purchase in the "just because" category, to go alongside the Rapido APT-E and Hornby Rocket, but in this case I think I'll wait until I've seen some reviews as, like others who have commented, I think it will take more than just sticking a motor in to make it a decent model. But we shall see. At least a tube train would make a relatively simple one-off project, since all it really needs is an oval of track - it's not like you need to allow for intricate shunting moves.

 

 

[PhilJ W]

Indeed, I would like to see what kind of mechanism is fitted to the tube stock. A centrally mounted motor with cardan  drive would be the ideal. Also there is the restricted bogie movement due to the bogies being partially enclosed within the body shell. A problem with stock motorised using such as the Tenshodo spud.

[John M Upton]

Just out or curiosity, are there any plans to do anything with the EFE bus range?  I know quite a lot of their bus and truck diecast models are a bit dated by modern standards now and could benefit from retooling (especially the Leyland National!) it is just that it seems to me that up until today the impression I get is that Bachmann had forgotten they had bought the company!! 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

I have just come across the news of the motorised EFE tube stock. I wonder if the bodies are the same as the 'static' stock or modified/adapted to take the power units. If they are unmodified it should be easy to swap the motor units over to the existing EFE tube stock. Hopefully EFE Rail will see fit to offer the motorised chassis alone to enable existing stock to be motorised. 

I’d say hold patience.

 

Given the guy I got mine from, had sold over 200, and he was one of a few offering such conversions, I have absolutely no doubts how popular these are going to be. So other Northern line liveries will follow, doubtless an IOW set, so I think this is going to be EFE’s “peckett” moment.

[lapford34102]

57 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

Not that I'm in the market for a Hymek, but if I was, why would I buy one in an EFE box rather than a Heljan box? Or, for that matter, vice versa? I get that EFE will benefit from wider distribution, particularly into smaller, local model shops, than Heljan, but I'd be surprised if it makes a huge amount of difference to sales. I wonder if this is possibly the beginnings of Heljan withdrawing from the distribution sector altogether, and simply making models for others to distribute.

If any more Heljan 4mm models appear under another banner  I would wonder if Heljan intend to concentrate on O gauge where there are fewer players and a lot of untapped material

 

Stu

[NIK]

38 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Indeed, I would like to see what kind of mechanism is fitted to the tube stock. A centrally mounted motor with cardan  drive would be the ideal. Also there is the restricted bogie movement due to the bogies being partially enclosed within the body shell. A problem with stock motorised using such as the Tenshodo spud.

HI,

 

Wouldn't two smaller motors driving two bogies (a la Cl117) be better for deep tube stock?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[adb968008]

27 minutes ago, lapford34102 said:

If any more Heljan 4mm models appear under another banner  I would wonder if Heljan intend to concentrate on O gauge where there are fewer players and a lot of untapped material

 

Stu

Don’t forget Heljan just put some old tooling 33’s under Gaugemaster release.
 

The Hymek is twice cooked and re-fried as far as the market goes, there’s not much more they can offer, each livery has been done several times, even the one off Dutch livery... 

if it’s just about exploring a route to market for a well exploited tooling that’s safe enough, but...

 

I would be cautious though if Heljan were to give up its own distribution channels for Bachmanns..  converging suppliers is a similar road Sanda-Kan and Hornby ended up on, new channels are always good, but to end up depending on then is bad.
 

Putting these out under an EFE brand, puts a degree of separation from the Bachmann Branchline brand, is a EFE a different trading entity to Bachmann or just a brand name ?

 

You have to applaud the business perspective, EFE has built a range out of existing toolings held by factories in China.

Edited August 4, 2020 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

16 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Just out or curiosity, are there any plans to do anything with the EFE bus range?  I know quite a lot of their bus and truck diecast models are a bit dated by modern standards now and could benefit from retooling (especially the Leyland National!) it is just that it seems to me that up until today the impression I get is that Bachmann had forgotten they had bought the company!! 

 

Wasn't there new buses announced about a year or so ago?

 

Certainly about the time that Rapido started doing their buses.

 

I'm afraid buses are not my thing, but I did think one of them looked suitable for a 1960s South London based layout I was planning on.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

18 minutes ago, NIK said:

HI,

 

Wouldn't two smaller motors driving two bogies (a la Cl117) be better for deep tube stock?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

Why not use the S stock drive ? It’s from Bachmanns existing tube train ?

[Roy L S]

2 hours ago, Tricky-CRS said:

The CAD and tooling may be 2 completely different thinks now, tooling owned by the factory able to produce. CAD or a version of sold by administrator but with no direct factory back up or support. I would back the player who holds the tooling either partial or complete and has a working factory.

 

I wish all parties great success.

The King never got as far as tooling on DJM's watch, the only tangible things produced were some rather crude 3D prints.

 

Roy

[Roy L S]

2 hours ago, Bulliedman said:

Don't want to be a party pooper but £34b for a single N gauge wagon !!!

But they will be a horror to assemble. If you have the ballast load out you will find that the interior sides of the wagon are a separate set of mouldings which are a swine to get back in if they come loose. Rails have them at £28, they have only produced four liveries one wagon of each so they appear to be quite cautious, I guess the market will ultimately decide. They are pretty reasonable models in my opinion but as I have four original black ones personally shan't be looking for any more just yet.

 

Roy

[Patrick Blake]

Looking at the specs for the RTR 1938TS, it seems likely that a coreless motor with a twin axle will power both bogies on both driving motor cars. That being the case, it will most likely have a cardane shaft linking the axle to a worm gear driving the bogies.

 

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 I owned a converted EFE tube with two Tenshodo motors, it ran like a pig on my track, very poor on corners, barely pulled itself and ultimately ran it as a 3 car, then later as a 2 car.
The problem seemed to be lack of weight, pickups & manoeuvrability, I was resold for £400, I could have easily spent months on perfecting it, but I made a profit so let it go.

 

The problem that I had with the conversion is that it required cutting openings and holes into the white metal chassis. Many people complained about the reliability of motorising the static EFE Carriages and everyone responded the same way by recommending placed weights on top of the Tenshodo spuds without actually realising what the problem was.

Firstly it didn't help that the Tenshodo spuds were made to drag all that white metal in the chassis under not just the motor cars but trailing cars too. (EFE Rail obviously took this onboard and produced a plastic moulded chassis instead.)
Secondly, Tenshodo spuds are noisy /rattly, not built for lugging large weights /were prone to overheating in my experience and lastly poor at performing under controlled /slow speeds and thus impractical for DCC.

 

I bought a 4 car 59TS in LUL Livery and never bought any other EFE Model since due to the amount of effort that was required in motorising them and the poor result that I got from the conversion that I did myself.

 

Patrick

Edited August 4, 2020 by Patrick Blake

[NIK]

16 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Why not use the S stock drive ? It’s from Bachmanns existing tube train ?

Hi,

 

I don't know about the S stock sub surface train model. Is the mechanism small enough?.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Les1952]

Now I've ploughed my way through all 7 pages-

 

A shame the Clayton has come too late for Hawthorn Dene, which is now advertised for sale.  I MIGHT get one for Croft Spa if I can find evidence they got South of Darlington on the ECML.  I remember them parked nose to tail on the high level line at Tyne Yard waiting their turn to bring their trains into the appropriate siding.

 

 

On the WDs, I'll definitely have a 68043, having sold my N gauge one and having seen the real thing on the Faverdale & Darchem shunt on quite a few days.  I suspect it will need the same cure for light footedness as the DJM ones do- a thumping good plug of lead in the smokebox.  I've had no problems with DJM's motors.  My main issue is their light front end makes them a little too track sensitive on my industrial track.  I hope that if the EFE uses a different motor it is not that much bigger as fitting sound to a DJM WD is a real doddle- everything goes in through the smokebox with the speaker last and still leaving room for a lead plug.

 

AMAZON was originally WD 75307, sold to Haydock Colliery in April 1946 as AMAZON.  After a trip to Walkden in March 1963 its life got complicated, though it avoided the Geisl ejectors, flowerpot chimneys and extended bunkers inflicted on others in Lancashire.  It ended up being run into the ground at Ladysmith Colliery, Whitehaven, where its livery is best described as unmitigated filth- grime and rust in larger proportions than most would imagine possible.  Scrapped in 1976.

 

In answer to the comments that the mermaid sits a little too high, nobody has ever commented on my four looking wrong at a show, and they have had plenty of outings.  I do hope they've given them shorter couplings, however.  The DJM ones work perfectly well with shorter couplings.

 

I don't see Bachmann's use of the EFE brand as that different to Hornby's use of Bassett Lowke for items outside of their mainstream.  Purists might get upset, but if they own the name why not use it?

 

All in all plenty to celebrate.

 

Les

Edited August 4, 2020 by Les1952
typo

[NIK]

1 minute ago, Les1952 said:

Now I've ploughed my way through all 7 pages-

 

A shame the Clayton has come too late for Hawthorn Dene, which is now advertised for sale.  I MIGHT get one for Croft Spa if I can find evidence they got South of Darlington on the ECML.  I remember them parked nose to tail on the flyover at Tyne Yard waiting their turn to bring their trains into the appropriate siding.

 

 

On the WDs, I'll definitely have a 68043, having sold my N gauge one and having seen the real thing on the Faverdale & Darchem shunt on quite a few days.  I suspect it will need the same cure for light footedness as the DJM ones do- a thumping good plug of lead in the smokebox.  I've had no problems with DJM's motors.  My main issue is their light front end makes them a little too track sensitive on my industrial track.  I hope that if the EFE uses a different motor it is not that much bigger as fitting sound to a DJM WD is a real doddle- everything goes in through the smokebox with the speaker last and still leaving room for a lead plug.

 

AMAZON was originally WD 75307, sold to Haydock Colliery in April 1946 as AMAZON.  After a trip to Walkden in March 1963 its life got complicated, though it avoided the Geisl ejectors, flowerpot chimneys and extended bunkers inflicted on others in Lancashire.  It ended up being run into the ground at Ladysmith Colliery, Whitehaven, where its livery is best described as unmitigated filth- grime and rust in larger proportions than most would imagine possible.  Scrapped in 1976.

 

In answer to the comments that the mermaid sits a little too high, nobody has ever commented on my four looking wrong at a show, and they have had plenty of outings.  I do hope they've given them shorter couplings, however.  The DJM ones work perfectly well with shorter couplings.

 

I don't see Bachmann's use of the EFE brand as that different to Hornby's use of Bassett Lowke for items outside of their mainstream.  Purists might get upset, but if they own the name why not use it?

 

All in all plenty to celebrate.

 

Les

Hi,

 

How is a OO Hymek outside of their mainstream?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[adb968008]

2 minutes ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

I don't know about the S stock sub surface train model. Is the mechanism small enough?.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklistdatabase/165479/bachmann_branchline_35_990_london_underground_s_stock_motorised_4_car_pack_exclusive_to_london_transport_mu/stockdetail.aspx
 

idont know about the mechanism, but I can see the multiple unit coupling used on the S-Stock tube isn’t in the EFE tube (the pictures show a standard nem).

[andyman7]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 I owned a converted EFE tube with two Tenshodo motors, it ran like a pig on my track, very poor on corners, barely pulled itself and ultimately ran it as a 3 car, then later as a 2 car.
The problem seemed to be lack of weight, pickups & manoeuvrability, I was resold for £400, I could have easily spent months on perfecting it, but I made a profit so let it go.

 

6 minutes ago, Patrick Blake said:

Looking at the specs for the RTR 1938TS, it seems likely that a coreless motor with a twin axle will power both bogies on both driving motor cars. That being the case, it will most likely have a cardane shaft linking the axle to a worm gear driving the bogies.

 

The problem that I had with the conversion is that it required cutting openings and holes into the white metal chassis. Many people complained about the reliability of motorising the static EFE Carriages and everyone responded the same way by recommending placed weights on top of the Tenshodo spuds without actually realising what the problem was.

Firstly it didn't help that the Tenshodo spuds were made to drag all that white metal in the chassis under not just the motor cars but trailing cars too. (EFE Rail obviously took this onboard and produced a plastic moulded chassis instead.)
Secondly, Tenshodo spuds are noisy /rattly, not built for lugging large weights /were prone to overheating in my experience and lastly poor at performing under controlled /slow speeds and thus impractical for DCC.

 

I bought a 4 car 59TS in LUL Livery and never bought any other EFE Model since due to the amount of effort that was required in motorising them and the poor result that I got from the conversion that I did myself.

 

I too have powered EFE versions using Tenshodo motor bogies and recognise all these issues. I did the conversions myself, the chassis is diecast not whitemetal so tougher to cut out. All the trailing wheels needed replacing to try and reduce drag and I chucked in as much liquid lead to weight the motor bogies as I could fit in. Even so it just about manages the 4 car set with 2 motor bogies on level track. I still have them and the new release may allow me to make up 7 coach sets if the traction/hauling power of the new releases has more oomph.