EFE Rail launches

[Talltim]

4 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

I suspect that those people who aren't able to buy the latest Tangent release because it is already sold out before release won't agree with you...

You have to be on the ball...

(did you miss out on an SP 86’ Greenville auto parts car?)

Edit: Actually, have you known that happen? I know some items have sold out on the day of release.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Talltim

[Jeff Smith]

See 

 

 for separate thread.

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, Talltim said:

You have to be on the ball...

(did you miss out on an SP 86’ Greenville auto parts car?)

Edit: Actually, have you known that happen? I know some items have sold out on the day of release.

 

 

The Tangent Greenville auto parts car announced Sunday, released tomorrow, and 4 of 6 paint schemes already sold out (with 2 of them selling out within 48 hours).

 

The situation is so bad, and has apparently annoyed so many Tangent customers, that Tangent has been forced into putting up a public apology on their website because so many customers could not order anything.

 

https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/greenville-86-high-cube-double-plug-door-box-car/

 

That is not good customer service.

 

[Oldddudders]

2 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

The Tangent Greenville auto parts car announced Sunday, released tomorrow, and 4 of 6 paint schemes already sold out (with 2 of them selling out within 48 hours).

 

The situation is so bad, and has apparently annoyed so many Tangent customers, that Tangent has been forced into putting up a public apology on their website because so many customers could not order anything.

 

https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/greenville-86-high-cube-double-plug-door-box-car/

 

That is not good customer service.

 

Maybe not - but demand exceeding supply, particularly in mid-2020, is what many companies worldwide would kill for. 

[mdvle]

14 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Maybe not - but demand exceeding supply, particularly in mid-2020, is what many companies worldwide would kill for. 

 

But the claim wasn't that it was good for the company, but that it was good for the customer to not have the wait from announcement to delivery.  Except in this case the customer can't buy it because it's sold out, so it is likely fair to assume a lot of those customers would have found the pre-order system to be much preferable because at least then they would be getting the product they wanted.

[GoingUnderground]

3 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

I notice that the 1938 Stock has disc wheels, is this correct?  All the Standard Stock had spoked wheels.

Not quite, on the motor bogies, the motor wheels were spoked, but the trailing wheels were disc, source: "The 1938 tube Stock" by Piers Connor. However, in normal use, the spokes are virtually invisible. 

[Jeff Smith]

Yes, I have that book at home but travelling at present so couldn't check.  Thanks.

[GoingUnderground]

4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yep. I think they should all have their own threads. 

 

Not particularly interested in looking at pictures of London Underground stuff. About as interesting as buses.

 

 

 

Jason

Then why are you bothering to read a topic about EFE models, when Bachmann themselves prefaced the announcement by saying

"Concluding our Autumn 2020 Announcements is the unveiling of our all-new brand – EFE Rail – led by a new motorised version of the popular EFE 1:76 scale (OO) London Underground Tube Train. This much requested model is joined by a number of other Great British Model Railways to complete the launch range for EFE Rail."

 

The original Gilbow company who owned the EFE brand only sold buses, and the two models of Underground rolling stock, with a few roadside/lineside accesories thrown in. These are the first 4mm scale Tube trains sold as RTR, if you exclude the 1950 set made by the UK Ever Ready battery company, which looked line a cross between Standard Stock and the Waterloo & City line stock. So they are important even to kettle-lovers. But there is a comparable precedent of a model of an Electric train launching a new product range. In 1926, Meccano Hornby's first ever electrically powered loco was the Metropolitan Railway's MetroVic Bo-Bo.

 

What I find so curious about Kader choosing to launch a new brand in the UK is that they chose to call it "EFE Rail", given that brand's association with model buses and Underground trains, when they could have used the Liliput name, unless it is an attempt by Kader, who own Bachmann to create a "lower spec" range in the UK.

[Legend]

3 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

 

What I find so curious about Kader choosing to launch a new brand in the UK is that they chose to call it "EFE Rail", given that brand's association with model buses and Underground trains, when they could have used the Liliput name, unless it is an attempt by Kader, who own Bachmann to create a "lower spec" range in the UK.

I think if they’d used Liliput it would still be associated with Kader, in the same way as Bachmann Branchline is . The EFE Rail range of models are made by other factories . I think they wanted to make the distinction , possibly not to dilute the Bachmann brand image.  It does give them more volume to sell not dependent on Kader.  EFE is a brand already known by Model Railway Retailers, many of whom have also stocked EFE buses and maybe even underground stock in the past. So given that the desired effect is to get models that were not generally available into a new distribution channel and into retailers using the EFE brand is probably pretty shrewd. 
 

it is a fascinating development . It is not a lower spec range , at least not in price . 

[mdvle]

 

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

What I find so curious about Kader choosing to launch a new brand in the UK is that they chose to call it "EFE Rail", given that brand's association with model buses and Underground trains, when they could have used the Liliput name, unless it is an attempt by Kader, who own Bachmann to create a "lower spec" range in the UK.

 

As noted many times, the pricing and non-Tube model choices clearly indicates this isn't a "lower spec" range.

 

As for Liliput, that would be confusing things given that it is used for European HO and N - while EFE Rail is exclusively UK OO and N thus keeping things nice and simple.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

 

What I find so curious about Kader choosing to launch a new brand in the UK is that they chose to call it "EFE Rail", given that brand's association with model buses and Underground trains, when they could have used the Liliput name, unless it is an attempt by Kader, who own Bachmann to create a "lower spec" range in the UK.

I think you will find that it s Bachmann in the Uk who have launched the brand (although the major shareholder is Mr Kenneth Ting, Chairman of Kader, so he no doubt approved the idea of adding the EFE Rail brand to the activity of the company's UK based subsidiary).  And it clearly makes good business sense for the UK based company to introduce a non-Kader sourced, higher ticket, range when we consider the supply situation from Kader over recent years.   Selling stuff like Woodlands Scenics into the UK market hardly makes up for not having a consistent supply of big ticket items coming from the Kader factories so adding a second range selling at mid-upper range model railway prices using different sourcing will no doubt help to smooth revenue for Bachmann Europe.

 

 As 'Legend' has already said EFE is a recognised brand in the UK,  and is owned by Bachmann Europe so I can see nothing illogical in them making use of a brand they already own for a non-railway range of models.  Clearly they could not use an existing Kader owned model railway brand because it already exists and has a market position which is understood by people who buy products carrying that brand.  A new range of products (new under a Bachmann banner that is) needs its own brand name so why not adapt a name which is known and has good retail penetration?  Far more likely to be recognised and 'accepted' by potential customers than, say, 'Barwell Rail'.

[Mike Harvey]

I have created a separate topic for the N Class 17 and Mermaid for those who want to use it. 
 

 

[rembrow]

12 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 As 'Legend' has already said EFE is a recognised brand in the UK,  and is owned by Bachmann Europe so I can see nothing illogical in them making use of a brand they already own for a non-railway range of models.  Clearly they could not use an existing Kader owned model railway brand because it already exists and has a market position which is understood by people who buy products carrying that brand.  A new range of products (new under a Bachmann banner that is) needs its own brand name so why not adapt a name which is known and has good retail penetration?  Far more likely to be recognised and 'accepted' by potential customers than, say, 'Barwell Rail'.

I agree with all you have said Mike, it is a good analysis of the commercial reasoning for this new range, however it seems to me that it's main basis of using tooling that is owned by a retailer who used DJ Models and Dapol to produce commissions at a particular Chinese factory and DJ Models tooling owned by the same factory, rather limits it's long term use and creates a bit of a cul-de-sac. There is probably a few more products that Kernow may add to the range- O2; Beattie Well tank; LSWR auto coach set, as they probably judge that another run of these will take an unreasonably lengthy amount of time to sell, if retailed only via their shops. There is only the DJ Models Class 73 from the DJ commissions left and that was always competing badly against the Hornby product. As others have said, there is the option of new body and underframe tooling for a Class 74.  I can't see other companies who initially used DJ Models for commissions adding their product (Irish Railway Models and Hattons spring to mind). So this leaves new tooling, however I can't see Kader being willing to let another competing manufacturer produce tooling for one of it's businesses. Time will tell, but having been a fan of the previous EFE diecast business, I've not seen that Bachmann have done much to keep that product going, with promised new tooling still not materialised and a sparse release programme. The unknown factor is Heljan's intentions having put the Hymek into this range, will they use this for their older tooling in a sort of pseudo 'Railroad' range.

Edited August 7, 2020 by rembrow

[Steamport Southport]

15 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

Then why are you bothering to read a topic about EFE models, when Bachmann themselves prefaced the announcement by saying

"Concluding our Autumn 2020 Announcements is the unveiling of our all-new brand – EFE Rail – led by a new motorised version of the popular EFE 1:76 scale (OO) London Underground Tube Train. This much requested model is joined by a number of other Great British Model Railways to complete the launch range for EFE Rail."

 

The original Gilbow company who owned the EFE brand only sold buses, and the two models of Underground rolling stock, with a few roadside/lineside accesories thrown in. These are the first 4mm scale Tube trains sold as RTR, if you exclude the 1950 set made by the UK Ever Ready battery company, which looked line a cross between Standard Stock and the Waterloo & City line stock. So they are important even to kettle-lovers. But there is a comparable precedent of a model of an Electric train launching a new product range. In 1926, Meccano Hornby's first ever electrically powered loco was the Metropolitan Railway's MetroVic Bo-Bo.

 

What I find so curious about Kader choosing to launch a new brand in the UK is that they chose to call it "EFE Rail", given that brand's association with model buses and Underground trains, when they could have used the Liliput name, unless it is an attempt by Kader, who own Bachmann to create a "lower spec" range in the UK.

 

But the thread isn't about Underground trains. It's about an EFE announcement which had them as part of the announcement.

 

There are also J94s, Hymeks and N gauge stuff.

 

Start a different thread if you want to discuss them and leave this one for news. That's the normal way of doing things.

 

 

 

Jason

[Legend]

34 minutes ago, rembrow said:

The unknown factor is Heljan's intentions having put the Hymek into this range, will they use this for their older tooling in a sort of pseudo 'Railroad' range.

 

Isn't it the same model just in a another box

[Ron Ron Ron]

15 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

......unless it is an attempt by Kader, who own Bachmann to create a "lower spec" range in the UK.

 

33 minutes ago, rembrow said:

......will they use this for their older tooling in a sort of pseudo 'Railroad' range.

 

Any attempts to make comparisons between "Railroad" and "EFE Rail" would appear to be totally inappropriate and erroneous, as the inclusion of the Hymek and the JIA and PBA wagons demonstrates.

 

.

 

[rembrow]

1 minute ago, Legend said:

 

Isn't it the same model just in a another box

It is , with different BR numbers, but is it likely to appear in a Heljan box again, I doubt it, otherwise why put a new run in this range. 

[rembrow]

4 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

Any attempts to make comparisons between "Railroad" and "EFE Rail" would appear to be totally inappropriate and erroneous, as the inclusion of the Hymek and the JIA and PBA wagons demonstrates.

 

.

 

Why, the Hymek is old tooling more than 15 years old, without modern electronic capability. The JIA is over 10 years old. Railroad is now a mixture of old tooling and newer tooling to lower spec. 

[Andy Reichert]

Sadly, for new buyers, it seems that the apparent premium pricing for the tube stock does not include having  less unrealistic handrails on the ends of the cars. My tube roster is already complete, so I'm (eventually) going to be motorizing the originals myself, and hopefully adding wire handrails as I go. But it risks messing up the original paint job.

 

Andy

 

 

[Jeff Smith]

It's fun and entertaining to offer all this speculation about Bachmann's marketing intentions but it's not as though it's a mystery, like the existence of UFOs; Bachmann knows precisely why it has done it.......

[Gwiwer]

10 minutes ago, rembrow said:

It is , with different BR numbers, but is it likely to appear in a Heljan box again, I doubt it, otherwise why put a new run in this range. 

EFE Rail uses pale blue boxes.  Images have appeared in a few places which may currently not be visible to all of the General Public but would be considered public domain.  Another familiar name also appears on at least some of those boxes. 

[Andy Reichert]

23 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

I suspect that those people who aren't able to buy the latest Tangent release because it is already sold out before release won't agree with you...

 

I'm old fashioned. I like the original idea of manufacturing in such a way that the models are continuously available, As they sell, then more are made. It can still be a profitable process, but just not a "fast buck" one.

 

Andy

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, rembrow said:

Why, the Hymek is old tooling more than 15 years old, without modern electronic capability. The JIA is over 10 years old. .....

 

I don't think you can just use age as a sole arbiter of quality.

 

The Hymek might be 15 years old, but is still reckoned by many to be one of Heljan's best models.

It certainly isn't "Railroad" standard.

What do you mean by " modern electronic capability" ? 

It's a DCC Ready model, albeit with the old 8-pin socket, but what do you think it's lacking?

 

The JIA and PBA both stand up very well against current wagon releases, if not quite there in the levels of detail compared with the likes of Accuascale.

They're a million miles away from any wagons put under the "Railroad" banner.

 

3 hours ago, rembrow said:

.......Railroad is now a mixture of old tooling and newer tooling to lower spec. 

 

Railroad is indeed a terrible mixture.

Old lower spec, lower fidelity tooling, a small amount of newer tooling to lower spec.,  some. stuff which is of kiddies toy train standard and some utter junk.

 

EFE Rail appears to be nothing of the sort.

I think it's been explained very clearly what it's all about.

Lower spec. lower price branding doesn't appear to be a factor, at all.

 

 

.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

25 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

I'm old fashioned. I like the original idea of manufacturing in such a way that the models are continuously available, As they sell, then more are made....

 

 

Do you think it really was like that, or is it just an established urban myth?

 

.

[Jeff Smith]

22 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

Sadly, for new buyers, it seems that the apparent premium pricing for the tube stock does not include having  less unrealistic handrails on the ends of the cars. My tube roster is already complete, so I'm (eventually) going to be motorizing the originals myself, and hopefully adding wire handrails as I go. But it risks messing up the original paint job.

 

Andy

 

 

Andy, I guess it depends how much effort you want to put in to super-detail them.  It would be easy to scrape off the molded-on handrails and maybe some of the other end detail but it would probably require a complete re-paint.  The glazing doesn't look good but replacing with individually cut panes would be very time consuming as I found out making Radley white metal Standard Stock.  The glazing would look much better without the hollows behind each window.  Flat back glazing with the molded windows to give flush appearance without the thick edges would be better - think of how Airfix does airliner windows.....