EFE Rail launches

[Trains4U]

16 minutes ago, lapford34102 said:

EFE's  product line and launch were probably in train some time before Covid became an issue and plans often have a momentum of their own and while I can see the logic in the EFE and ex-DJM items admit to being somewhat surprised by the  inclusion of the Hymek. Fair play to Heljan as I doubt it owes them anything after the number of years it's been in their lineup and I'm sure they have a mutually advantageous arrangement with Bachmann. What baffles me is who is the intended customers are. Anyone on a forum will know the score and and any magazine review should explain it provenance. Doing new numbers/liveries/weathering might well appeal to the collector - perhaps one on here would care to give an opinion - or the casual buyer but I do wonder whether there's a wider market as Heljan have their own versions coming at around £20 cheaper with the only apparent difference being the EFE version seemingly having a "better paint job"  whatever that is.

I shall watch from the sidelines with interest.

Stu

 

 

Heljan has relatively low market penetration in model shops when compared to Bachmann.

 

EFE rail will be picked up by model shops with no Heljan account.

 

you would be surprised what percentage of modellers don’t bother with magazines or the internet 

 

they will see  a high quality hymek in their local shop at a price in line with other locos, and will buy it because they like it.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Trains4U

[Trains4U]

18 minutes ago, micklner said:

Sorry what does that actually mean.

 

Extra production via numerous sub sellers/maker, why would they bother ?

 

Kader internal market ? no idea what that is .

 

 

 

Bachmann Europe is a Kader company, but must compete for factory time as any other customer of the factory.

This includes a dominant US railroad market, which often pushes uk production aside.

 

if Bachmann Europe cannot get kader product, then why not buy in from elsewhere?

 

buying the tools would not solve lack of production capacity (it would have the opposite effect)

 

Bachmann have distributed Mehano, Aristocraft and EFE (before it was bought out by them) so it’s not a completely new model for them.

 

Its also (as I mentioned before) a means for Kernow to distribute their models to an established retailer network without having to a) build that network and b) incurr Bachmann’s Wrath!

[lapford34102]

13 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

Heljan has relatively low market penetration in model shops......      ........  a high quality hymek in their local shop at a price in line with other locos, and will buy it because they like it.

Fair enough Gareth, appreciate your insight. But rhetorically and with tongue firmly in cheek

16 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

their local shop

What local shop......?

17 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

don’t bother with magazines or the internet 

After the last 6 months..... ?

 

Cheers

Stu

[Trains4U]

There are still, literally, hundreds of model shops...

[Butler Henderson]

There was  a rumpus a few years back when Heljan dropped the price of a model much to the annoyance of many retailers many of whom stopped stocking Heljan. Certainly  a web browse of model shop sites throws up a number who do not list Heljan. Not sure if this list is up to date but its proports to list those shops who do stock Heljan

https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/csearch/Heljan; contrast the shortness of that with the list of Bachmann stockists http://news.Bachmann.co.uk/find-a-retailer/

[YesTor]

16 hours ago, Trains4U said:

you would be surprised what percentage of modellers don’t bother with magazines or the internet 

 

Agreed.  I must confess, I've very often been surprised on overhearing interactions between customer and retailer at various exhibitions, whereby said customer has quite clearly been blissfully unaware of something that has often been around for years on what I would regard as a 'standard range' item.  This kind of occurrence made me realize just how many often standard products that a significant proportion of modellers must not know exist - and that's before we get anywhere near the umpteen exclusive lines and commissions.  So any potential new sales avenues for some of those products surely have to be avenues worth exploiting.  Any business would be crazy not to.

 

On a positive note, I'm quite pleased that the JIA China Clay Wagons are available again, and for what seems to be a reasonable price - £38.50 at some retailers - which if my memory serves me correctly is perhaps even slightly less than they were first time around, and that's quite some time ago.  Having missed out on the first run, I was advised by Kernow at the time that they had taken around 6 years to sell the unweathered examples, and my conclusion from that information was that a further run would be highly unlikely in the foreseeable future, at least as a Kernow exclusive anyway.  

 

Best

Al 

Edited August 20, 2020 by YesTor

[adb968008]

Very amicable arrangement between Bachmann and Heljan, I wonder if it will expand to include the forthcoming class 45 and 47’s ?

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Trains4U said:

 

Bachmann have distributed Mehano, Aristocraft and EFE (before it was bought out by them) so it’s not a completely new model for them.

 

Difference being they were in their own boxes, not someone elses.

 

i’m intrigued how it will play out, but it sounds primarily like a route to market for ex DJ made (not necessarily his own) stuff, with a Tube train as a natural addition, and a Heljan hymek as an odd one out.

 

Thing is theres a lot of commissioners stuff out there, not just ex-DJ. We've often seem 1 run from that tooling, ne’r to be seen again, and if the factory in China owns the tooling, i’d imagine after a while they would be getting itchy to get more from it...

 

it would be interesting to see if a 14xx makes a come back.

Edited August 20, 2020 by adb968008

[Jeff Smith]

There must be a lot of tooling piling up somewhere...I'm thinking of the limited runs like the Stirling Single from Rapido and the likes.  Batch production obviously is economic but it then becomes a difficult decision when or if to do another batch.

[John M Upton]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

It would be interesting to see if a 14xx makes a come back.

 

The problem there is that the 14xx was Hattons and they and Bachmann are no longer friends so unlikely unless the tooling rights were sold completely.

[micklner]

9 hours ago, Trains4U said:

There are still, literally, hundreds of model shops...

A search for the whole of London area revealed three, none on the east side of London . I am aware of one other near me which had zero stock ,and I have no idea how it stays open and is ignored by me at least.

[Butler Henderson]

4 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

There must be a lot of tooling piling up somewhere...I'm thinking of the limited runs like the Stirling Single from Rapido and the likes.  Batch production obviously is economic but it then becomes a difficult decision when or if to do another batch.

Assuming the tooling still exists, the Airfix Rebuilt Scot toolings vanished and could not be found when Dapol thought they had acquired them. A new batch of the Stirling Single with a new tooling of the  small tender as everyone alive has seen it run with would plainly sell IMO

[spamcan61]

10 hours ago, micklner said:

Kader internal market ? no idea what that is .

 

Kader manufactures products from a number of different internal divisions (Bachmann Europe being one), so there is likely to be some degree of 'push and shove' between these divisions to get manufacturing capacity for their particular products. Kader HQ are presumably looking to use their capacity to manufacture the most profitable products. 

 

So the EFE Rail thing side steps this issue somewhat as products are being manufactured on somebody else's production line but still sold under the Bachmann umbrella.

[Invicta]

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Assuming the tooling still exists, the Airfix Rebuilt Scot toolings vanished and could not be found when Dapol thought they had acquired them. A new batch of the Stirling Single with a new tooling of the  small tender as everyone alive has seen it run with would plainly sell IMO

 

Re: the Airfix Scot, wasn't some of Airfix's tooling destroyed in the period between Airfix going bust and the model railway range being bought by Palitoy, and General Mills pulling out of the toy/model business a couple of years later. IIRC, didn't one of the mags once publish an interview with the late David Boyle, where he mentioned seeing some of the ex-Kitmaster kit tooling (from memory either the Garratt or Stirling SIngle, neither of which ever reappeared in either Airfix or Dapol guise) being destroyed with a sledgehammer when he was negotiating the AIrfix/Dapol deal?

 

With an existing Rebuilt Scot in the Mainline range, I can imagine Palitoy wouldn't have been too concerned about the tools for the Airfix one which duplicated their own product.

 

It will be interesting to see what does emerge for future EFE releases- as a couple of people have suggested, there's no shortage of commissioned tooling around which might warrant a re-release, it just depends on who controls the rights to that and whether they might be willing to strike a deal with Bachmann.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Invicta

[woodenhead]

Kernow have sold their own limited editions through other retailers, the 02s which weren't selling at the end have turned up at a number of retailers including Hattons.

 

But this EFE collaboration does offer Kernow a new route to market and with Graham Muz now on board it really does give them impetus to get on with other niche models that they can now retail through Bachmann's network.  The GWR Railmotor and the LSWR Roadvans spring to mind as items that perhaps needed something extra to get them to the top of the pile for production.

 

There is also Sonic Rail - Whilst the 56xx has been supported by RevolutioN it was clear this was to help them into the market, perhaps here too a link up with EFE Rail / Kernow would really help the N market.  I assume that it wasn't Mr Sonic who did the Class 17 for DJ, if it was then he has already begun this link.

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Where is the evidence to back up your assertions?

As ever there isn't any.  All people need to do - if they're actually bothered to look at facts instead of what amounts to shooting from the hip - is look at the financial results of the companies involved and look at statements with those accounts or in annual reports.  They could even read a thread on RNwebabout Hornby where their financial situation has long been examined and analysed on this forum to get a very rapid understanding that manufacturing model railways is not necessarily a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.  Or just look at the number of manufacturers who have gone well and truly bust over the past couple of decades.  Incidentally when Bachmann's prices in Britain rose they actually got back into profit - is that a message?

 

As for EFE Rail why on earth do people  continue to miss the very simple earth shattering fact?  It gives Bachmann Europe a second big ticket string to its retail bow in Britain and it's one that does not rely on Kader's two factories for supplies where it is in internal competition with the massively larger US brands owned by Kader.  Bachmann Europe have been concerned about intermittent supply hitting their bottom line (their words not mine) so they have done something about it by introducing a new label taking product from non Kader manufacturing sources.  It's also done Kernow good by widening the market for their products.  Subject to how well it sells it is a win-win situation for both Kernow and Bachmann Europe (which incidentally no longer belongs to Kader but is individually owned by the senior Mr Ting although it is still considered part of Kader because he is the senior shareholder there).

 

So let's get real - new brand entry in the troubled world of 2020 and from what I have heard tests by more than one reviewer of the new j94 are favourable.  And if you don't like the price don't buy - take up fishing or golf instead and discover that they even more expensive.

[dibber25]

1 hour ago, Invicta said:

 

Re: the Airfix Scot, wasn't some of Airfix's tooling destroyed in the period between Airfix going bust and the model railway range being bought by Palitoy, and General Mills pulling out of the toy/model business a couple of years later. IIRC, didn't one of the mags once publish an interview with the late David Boyle, where he mentioned seeing some of the ex-Kitmaster kit tooling (from memory either the Garratt or Stirling SIngle, neither of which ever reappeared in either Airfix or Dapol guise) being destroyed with a sledgehammer when he was negotiating the AIrfix/Dapol deal?

 

With an existing Rebuilt Scot in the Mainline range, I can imagine Palitoy wouldn't have been too concerned about the tools for the Airfix one which duplicated their own product.

 

It will be interesting to see what does emerge for future EFE releases- as a couple of people have suggested, there's no shortage of commissioned tooling around which might warrant a re-release, it just depends on who controls the rights to that and whether they might be willing to strike a deal with Bachmann.

That comment by David Boyle was in an early issue of Model Rail. My understanding was that much of the Kitmaster tooling was damaged by water (and subsequent rust) while in storage. I believe that info may also have come from David Boyle. There are lots of 'popular legends' which circulate in this hobby and where tooling is concerned there are many reasons why it becomes of no use or no value - sometimes remarkable quickly. (CJL)

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

or golf instead

Someone always takes it too far 

[Class 158 productions]

25 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: 

 

So let's get real - new brand entry in the troubled world of 2020 and from what I have heard tests by more than one reviewer of the new j94 are favourable.  And if you don't like the price don't buy - take up fishing or golf instead and discover that they even more expensive.

I think that is a completely fair and valid point. I’m guilty of sometimes looking at model trains in a vacuum but when you look at the big picture, we are often quite lucky. Especially if you model uk trains, I was looking at some prices on the continental side of modelling, makes some of our most expensive items look rather cheap! 

[PaulRhB]

13 hours ago, Trains4U said:

 

They can’t buy tools that aren’t for sale.

 

so why not do the next best thing and profit from distribution.

Agreed and relatively minor risk to the ‘wholesaler’ and a better market for the manufacturer. 
 . . . 
Hold on this is looking like a good idea  

 

This also has the possibility to avoid the technicalities ‘rift’ with Hattons if they choose to use it, that’ll be an interesting one to watch  

[PhilJ W]

I wonder if there's the possibility of a dedicated London Transport range. We now have the makings with the motorised EFE tube stock. Bachmann produced the S stock for the LTM and they could make a similar arrangement to have the Metropolitan Bo-Bo from Heljan produced as there is with the Hymek.

[caradoc]

14 hours ago, Trains4U said:

they will see  a high quality hymek in their local shop at a price in line with other locos, and will buy it because they like it.

 

I wish EFE Rail every success with this interesting venture, but regarding the Hymek, I do have to wonder how many modellers both want one, and were/are totally unaware of Heljan's excellent model (available for over 15 years now) ?

 

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

11 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

I wish EFE Rail every success with this interesting venture, but regarding the Hymek, I do have to wonder how many modellers both want one, and were/are totally unaware of Heljan's excellent model (available for over 15 years now) ?

 

 

 

 

I would say pretty high.

 

I've seen posts on the Hornby forum and Facebook pages where people don't even know who Bachmann are.

 

 

 

Jason

[caradoc]

6 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I would say pretty high.

 

I've seen posts on the Hornby forum and Facebook pages where people don't even know who Bachmann are.

Jason

 

Fair point, but do those people really want a model of a loco extinct from the main line for over 45 years ?

And if they don't know who Bachmann are, not sure they will be aware of EFE Rail either !

 

[woodenhead]

36 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

I wish EFE Rail every success with this interesting venture, but regarding the Hymek, I do have to wonder how many modellers both want one, and were/are totally unaware of Heljan's excellent model (available for over 15 years now) ?

 

 

 

Regardless there must be a market and with Heljan focussed on other new developments it lets them use capacity at their factories to turn out older toolings as a nice little earner with the other party also doing all the distribution and marketing.

 

For Heljan it is money for old rope that will also raise their profile with people who may have not given them a second thought in the past.

Edited August 20, 2020 by woodenhead
added an 'it'