EFE Rail launches

[Jeff Smith]

I'm sure £34 would be at a loss so I can't understand why they would do that.....

[chris p bacon]

3 hours ago, Trains4U said:

We are getting around to it!

weve had an astonishing amount of product delivered in the last few weeks as well as a huge level of demand.

 

our staff are stretched to say the least!

 

Do you put then on the Rack if they're not quick enough....

[PhilJ W]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

I'm sure £34 would be at a loss so I can't understand why they would do that.....

They usually sell at RRP and would have made sufficient profit. 

[Jeff Smith]

Understood, but why would they be in such a hurry to get rid of them?  After all there is one in the museum!

[The Stationmaster]

8 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Understood, but why would they be in such a hurry to get rid of them?  After all there is one in the museum!

TfL is a public body and the London Transport Museum is a subsidiary of TfL.  Thus any investment the museum makes in goods to sell is accountable as it would be any other monies handle in trading by a public body (e.g the Science Museum).  While we don't know any detail of the Museum's business case for the S Stock there must have been one and it must have said it would deliver certain results for the Museum and within a stated period of time.  

 

We don't know if it delivered those financial results but one thing we can be pretty sure of is that 'dead' stock sitting on the Museum's books was not a good idea as it represented a cost on the accounts with no return.  So the Museum acted to clear that dead cost sitting on its books and it did that by means of a price reduction to get rid of whatever S Stock sets it still had on its books.  A good comparison is Hornby which has an increasing level of 'dead' (in earning terms) stock sitting on its books which is adding a cost to its bottom line.

[PhilJ W]

9 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Understood, but why would they be in such a hurry to get rid of them?  After all there is one in the museum!

 

39 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

TfL is a public body and the London Transport Museum is a subsidiary of TfL.  Thus any investment the museum makes in goods to sell is accountable as it would be any other monies handle in trading by a public body (e.g the Science Museum).  While we don't know any detail of the Museum's business case for the S Stock there must have been one and it must have said it would deliver certain results for the Museum and within a stated period of time.  

 

We don't know if it delivered those financial results but one thing we can be pretty sure of is that 'dead' stock sitting on the Museum's books was not a good idea as it represented a cost on the accounts with no return.  So the Museum acted to clear that dead cost sitting on its books and it did that by means of a price reduction to get rid of whatever S Stock sets it still had on its books.  A good comparison is Hornby which has an increasing level of 'dead' (in earning terms) stock sitting on its books which is adding a cost to its bottom line.

There is also the factor of limited storage space, this I understand is a particular problem for the LTM shop. Keep an eye on their web site over the next few months* and you might find a few bargains listed under to clear. This might be cushions finished in LT moquette rather than models but its worth a look. *With the motorised tube stock coming in and Christmas coming there should a few bargains.

[wainwright1]

13 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The London Transport Museum shop periodically has a clear out. When it does there's some real bargains to be had. Last year they cleared out the Heljan Metropolitan Bo-Bo at £34 each! They were sold out within an hour. Over the next few weeks quite a few began appearing on E-bay at 3 to 4 times that price. The difference was the S stock was a LT museum exclusive whereas the Met. Bo-Bo was on general sale. 

 

Hi All.

We exhibited at the Family and Fun event at Acton Works last year that replaced the former model railway weekend.

I think that they had virtually no model railway items on sale in the shop then, whereas on previous visits they had  quite a lot of stock.

We were invited again this year, but the Covid killed that off. Hopefully next year.....

 

All the best

Ray

[mdvle]

On 19/08/2020 at 21:54, Jeff Smith said:

There must be a lot of tooling piling up somewhere...I'm thinking of the limited runs like the Stirling Single from Rapido and the likes.  Batch production obviously is economic but it then becomes a difficult decision when or if to do another batch.

 

It can also depend on the ability of the organization involved to deal with the product.

 

Rapido is interested in doing another run of the APT-E, but Locomotion isn't interested at this point in time as they are busy with other things.  I assume a similar issue could cover the Stirling Single.

[stewartingram]

I managed to get a Bachmann SECR 592 for the princely sum of £38 some time back, this after they had disappeared from normal retailers shelves. I think at that time they were on Ebay for £250......

I picked up a few other items whilst I was working in London too, I miss going in that shop.

[bingley hall]

What has any of this to do with the new EFE Rail line of products.......?

['CHARD]

3 hours ago, bingley hall said:

What has any of this to do with the new EFE Rail line of products.......?

 

It's exploring market conditions, buyer and commissioning parties' behaviour, as a way of informing the debate; at least that's what I'm getting from it, rather than just pointless wishlisting. 

 

So, when will EFE announce DCC chipped Sturgeons, motorized Belfast 1954 pattern tram, Class 33 in XP64 livery and DP2?

[Jeff Smith]

Honestly, does any of this ownership/controlling interest/pricing debate really matter.....?

 

The re-packaging, re-branding has been stated, as have the shortcomings of certain older items.  This is perhaps valuable information and could be useful to purchasers' decision making.  Most of the rest does not in my opinion further the hobby..........

[andyman7]

25 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Honestly, does any of this ownership/controlling interest/pricing debate really matter.....?

 

The re-packaging, re-branding has been stated, as have the shortcomings of certain older items.  This is perhaps valuable information and could be useful to purchasers' decision making.  Most of the rest does not in my opinion further the hobby..........

Sharing knowledge about the specification of models is very helpful, what I think causes problems is where polemic gets involved.

 

Stating that the EFE Rail Hymek is the same spec as Heljan's own brand and doesn't have etched grilles etc is useful and allows people to make an informed choice; however, when the debate strays on to whether it should exist/should be cheaper the discussion quickly becomes subjective. For example I am highly likely to buy the 1938 tube stock set but can perfectly understand that someone else would find it  of no interest at the price proposed.

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, 1andrew1 said:

Unfortunately, repeating an assertion does not make it correct. You are misunderstanding  what has been reported to Companies House.  The person(s) with significant control does not mean they own Bachmann Europe directly. Bachmann Europe is still owned by Kader. It indicates that Kenneth Ting (full name Kenneth Ting Woo-shou) has significant control of Bachmann Europe which is correct as he controls its parent company, Kader Holdings.

See the Kader Holdings 2019 report https://www2.kader.com.hk/investor_relations/pdf/result2019e.pdf

p138 shows Bachmann Europe plc to be 100% owned by Kader Holdings

p29 shows that Kenneth Ting controls Kader

You should check the facts first.  There are 2,050,00 shares in Bachmann Europe.  Mr Kenneth Ting owns all of them except 2, ipso facto he literally owns Bachmann Europe.  I have not misunderstood what has been reported at Companies House where it merely says that he has significant control owning over 75% of the shares- i.e. the legal requirement to state that he owns more than 75%  has been met.  In excess of 99% of the shares is obviously in excess of 75%, that is a mathematical certainty.   And you seem to have ignored the second of my sentences which I highlighted regarding what is the practical situation in respect of control through Kader Industries where Mr Kenneth Ting is the senior shareholder.  

 

I would remind you too that according to filing at Companies House Kader ceased to have significant control of Bachmann Europe on 5 June 1 2017 although that was not filed until late 2019 - perhaps you didn't bother to read that on the Companies House website?

 

Maybe you should have read what I wrote and not what you think. I wrote.

[Oldddudders]

26 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Maybe you should have read what I wrote and not what you think. I wrote.

Is it me, or has the post you quoted mysteriously disappeared, Mike? Amazing how these things happen. 

 

Ah, joined 22 hours ago, last seen 13 hours ago. New members can often add real value to this place with additional info or skills. Or sometimes not. 

[Ian Hargrave]

5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Is it me, or has the post you quoted mysteriously disappeared, Mike? Amazing how these things happen. 

 

Ah, joined 22 hours ago, last seen 13 hours ago. New members can often add real value to this place with additional info or skills. Or sometimes not. 

Indeed .How so true is that.You have to wonder who some of these truly are .Perhaps a front for an ulterior motive. ?
One such cuckoo in the nest tried going solo with his own agenda and thread for R 3819 .....the Hornby Duchess of Atholl ....last week. Even pm’d me and others for support.A bad choice in my case .The dialogue ceased abruptly.

[TREX]

I really didn't think my first post [and I'm not about to disappear] on here would be about accounts and companies house records but I dealt with both for many years so lets try and put this one to bed. I'll try and be brief. Annual returns were replaced on 30/06/16 by an annual confirmation statement so Bachmann's first one was not due until 05/06/17. The first one shows all shareholders at that date 2,049,999 owned by Kader Holdings  & 1 by Kondux International [probably a Kader company]. The only share transfer was a single share from Graham Hubbard to Kader on 31/03/16. That return also, for the first time, had to disclose the person with significant control......Kenneth Ting, so he didn't become the person with significant control on that date, it was the first date it had to be disclosed. Rather strangely Kader Industries was also included on that form as a relevant legal entity [ a corporate version if you like of the person with significant control ]. I suspect this was in error [new forms, new rules....it happens] and again I suspect the filing on 04/11/19 reflecting the cessation of Kader Holdings as a person with significant control on 05/06/17 was just correcting that original error. Subsequent confirmation statements in 2018, 2019 and 2020 show no change so Kader still owns 2,049,999 shares and Mr Ting none.

If you doubt any of this just look at all subsequent Bachmann Europe plc accounts which show Mr Ting as owning no shares [directors report] and the company as a subsidiary of Kader Holdings [note 22 in 2018 accounts]. Similarly the Kader accounts [2019 latest] show Bachmann Europe plc as a 100% subsidiary.

 

Sorry for boring most of you, hopefully next time I post it will be railway related!

[John M Upton]

Pointless irrelevant nonsense, can we move on please?

[Clearwater]

23 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Pointless irrelevant nonsense, can we move on please?

Sorry you don’t find it interesting. However, who owns and controls these companies is important as it often gives an idea as to their intentions and strategy.  A corporate reorganisation may be a leading indicator either of a sale of the entity or that it has financial liabilities from which the owner wishes to be able to walk away from.  Companies can, and do, obfuscate their legal structures for a variety of purposes.  What’s interesting to me about the above exchange is the gap between the action and filing and the lack of mention, from my quick scan. of a change in the listed parent’s accounts.  
 

The creation of a new brand in EFE is an interesting move.  Why they’ve chosen to do it, why the agglomeration of a number of products from different sources is interesting and poses a number of questions that are being explored in this thread.

[Jeff Smith]

Interesting to some perhaps....maybe there should be a 'Business and Strategy ' section.....?

[Willie Whizz]

2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Interesting to some perhaps....maybe there should be a 'Business and Strategy ' section.....?

 

On the Hornby pages, in effect there is, or are, though the titles usually derive from the periodic Financial Reports that are required from companies.

 

If the interest for EFE continues beyond this initial digression, someone could always start the equivalent here!

[1andrew1]

4 hours ago, TREX said:

I really didn't think my first post [and I'm not about to disappear] on here would be about accounts and companies house records but I dealt with both for many years so lets try and put this one to bed. I'll try and be brief. Annual returns were replaced on 30/06/16 by an annual confirmation statement so Bachmann's first one was not due until 05/06/17. The first one shows all shareholders at that date 2,049,999 owned by Kader Holdings  & 1 by Kondux International [probably a Kader company]. The only share transfer was a single share from Graham Hubbard to Kader on 31/03/16. That return also, for the first time, had to disclose the person with significant control......Kenneth Ting, so he didn't become the person with significant control on that date, it was the first date it had to be disclosed. Rather strangely Kader Industries was also included on that form as a relevant legal entity [ a corporate version if you like of the person with significant control ]. I suspect this was in error [new forms, new rules....it happens] and again I suspect the filing on 04/11/19 reflecting the cessation of Kader Holdings as a person with significant control on 05/06/17 was just correcting that original error. Subsequent confirmation statements in 2018, 2019 and 2020 show no change so Kader still owns 2,049,999 shares and Mr Ting none.

If you doubt any of this just look at all subsequent Bachmann Europe plc accounts which show Mr Ting as owning no shares [directors report] and the company as a subsidiary of Kader Holdings [note 22 in 2018 accounts]. Similarly the Kader accounts [2019 latest] show Bachmann Europe plc as a 100% subsidiary.

 

Sorry for boring most of you, hopefully next time I post it will be railway related!

Thank you for confirming that Bachmann is a subsidiary of Kader. I had posted the link to the 2019 Kader accounts in my post evidencing this, but as a newbie poster, some members were understandably sceptical.

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi Everyone,

 

The EFE Rail brand was a surprise but, as far as I can see, a welcome concept from Bachmann. It’s allowed products we might not have seen produced again be brought to market and available throughout the country. I never got any of Kernows JIA’s first time around but on Saturday was able to collect the 6 I ordered from my local model shop of choice Crafty Hobbies in Barrow. (Actually really nice to be able to go back in a model shop and get those other bits too) Great service from John & Shelagh who had emailed the list at launch before ordering to make sure people could get what they wanted.
 

Cheers

Mark

[Mel_H]

On 23/08/2020 at 12:14, PhilJ W said:

 

There is also the factor of limited storage space, this I understand is a particular problem for the LTM shop. Keep an eye on their web site over the next few months* and you might find a few bargains listed under to clear. This might be cushions finished in LT moquette rather than models but its worth a look. *With the motorised tube stock coming in and Christmas coming there should a few bargains.

As well as watching the website, you can go onto the LTM's 'shop' page and sign up to receive emails, which will alert you to bargains (of all kinds).

 

At the moment for signing up you can claim 10% off your first order (some items excluded).

 

They don't bombard you with emails, and when they have a 'clearance' you have to be quick as I suspect the list is large (there's worldwide interest in LT). They do have some good bargains occasionally. And, you also get that nice warm feeling that you're supporting the museum which, this week's email told me, costs £25,000 per day to run.

 

On the LT subject, I suspect that EFE Rail is (not surprisingly) testing the water with the first release. If it goes well, I'm sure more will follow (69/62 stock, Isle of Wight etc?).

 

On the other hand, I suspect a number of us (yes, I'm one of those who motorised the original release with SPUDs) are just waiting to see a review or how buyers find them before committing 300 notes.

 

I reckon there could be mileage with LT; Bachmann have done the LT panniers a few times. LTM did a limited edition with the LT150 red prairie.

 

There are all sorts of possibilities, including, I might suggest, the battery locos (see another thread).

 

Finally, according to a note I made in my diary much earlier in the year, this weekend was due to see the last-ever Steam on the Met (new signalling means it won't happen again). Sadly, this was cancelled a while back due to C***d.

 

Apologies for going OT...

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Mel_H said:

They don't bombard you with emails, and when they have a 'clearance' you have to be quick as I suspect the list is large (there's worldwide interest in LT). They do have some good bargains occasionally. And, you also get that nice warm feeling that you're supporting the museum which, this week's email told me, costs £25,000 per day to run.

that makes it a very expensive railway museum. 

if they are this high, my first question would be, Why ?