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EFE Rail launches


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21 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I would say pretty high.

 

I've seen posts on the Hornby forum and Facebook pages where people don't even know who Bachmann are.

 

 

 

Jason

Your assuming people are out there looking for “Heljan”.

its more likely people are out there looking for ”Hymek”.

 

Typing “hymek oo gauge” will get any prospector their answer, without having to know who Heljan, Bachmann or EFE rail are.

 

Now if they really are particular about brand, than purpose, chances are they will end buying a Hornby one, before anyone elses.


if they are particular about price, then Triang, Hornby, Heljan EFErail in that order.


I don’t want to disappoint, but I don't see a class 35 being the most popular here, but it does fit the aim of the EFE brand of using others toolings with permission, maybe they will do a Hornby Clan next.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Fair point, but do those people really want a model of a loco extinct from the main line for over 45 years ?

And if they don't know who Bachmann are, not sure they will be aware of EFE Rail either !

 

 

Or one they have travelled behind on a heritage railway. I never saw them on the mainline, seen the survivors plenty of times though. Looking at one on TV at Williton as I type this.

 

But my point was many people aren't "brand aware" I would think that many people think all model trains are Hornby. I had relatives that always referred to it as Hornby Dublo regardless of what it is.

 

 

 

 

Jason

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19 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Fair point, but do those people really want a model of a loco extinct from the main line for over 45 years ?

And if they don't know who Bachmann are, not sure they will be aware of EFE Rail either !

 

Interesting question but judging by various other things which seem to attract 'expressions of interest' and real orders there are enough people out there to justify models of (non-industrial) locos which hardly turned a wheel on main lines or if they did never knocked up a long time in traffic.  And don't forget outside the hardcore enthusiast market there are plenty of folk who buy locos because they look good or in the case of those giving presents remind them of what they saw in their own earlier years.

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52 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

I wish EFE Rail every success with this interesting venture, but regarding the Hymek, I do have to wonder how many modellers both want one, and were/are totally unaware of Heljan's excellent model (available for over 15 years now) ?

 

 

 

 

Admittedly, they will be a harder sell when sat alongside Heljan branded locos that are 20% cheaper.   But Steamport Southport (Above) is right.   You'd be amazed at the conversations I have with some customers, who would really rather not buy Bachmann, simply because it isn't Hornby!

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26 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

 

Admittedly, they will be a harder sell when sat alongside Heljan branded locos that are 20% cheaper.   But Steamport Southport (Above) is right.   You'd be amazed at the conversations I have with some customers, who would really rather not buy Bachmann, simply because it isn't Hornby!


its like Chelsea and Man Utd.

both successful, but one will always out shine the other, no matter how hard they try, the loyalty is just too strong. It seems Chelsea is now offering Saracens kits with 2000’s era Leeds Utd players name‘s on, to raise awareness, but people will still walk in the shop and ask for Man U.

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4 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

 

Admittedly, they will be a harder sell when sat alongside Heljan branded locos that are 20% cheaper.   But Steamport Southport (Above) is right.   You'd be amazed at the conversations I have with some customers, who would really rather not buy Bachmann, simply because it isn't Hornby!

But maybe in a shop with both Heljan and EFE, the proprietor will simply not stock the EFE version but still have a J94, a class 17, an underground train and a selection of wagons.

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1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

But maybe in a shop with both Heljan and EFE, the proprietor will simply not stock the EFE version but still have a J94, a class 17, an underground train and a selection of wagons.

 

I'll put them at opposite ends of my 6m display cabinet.
Maybe no-one will notice!

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31 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

 

I'll put them at opposite ends of my 6m display cabinet.
Maybe no-one will notice!

Au contraire, put them next to each other.

 

When people question the price their is a story to tell, and point out EFERail has the greater collectors potential, as theres only a few efe 35’s whilst Heljans made nearly 30... EFE does mean Exclusive First Edition, afterall.

 

its a curates egg... one large competitor selling another large competitors product. This will be one of those footnotes in the future history, that either leads to something bigger or smaller, for that reason alone i’m interested in one, but not yet.


It happened once before, with Replica Railways acknowledging Dapol in its packaging of some wagons.

 

Edited by adb968008
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I find this is an intriguing conversation.Punters buy models for all kinds of reasons....or prejudices....such as the dreaded “brand loyalty” or on its good looks alone. 
 

Last week on my recommendation ,our visiting cycling devotee family did the High Peak Trail from Black Rocks to Parsley Hay,returning exhausted 

down the other rail trail via Tissington thence cross country to their starting point.....reached in the gathering darkness with lights on  some 33 miles later.

 

Thus you might have guessed my reason for looking closely at one of the EFE current releases .Logic doesn’t apply...
 

 

 

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8 hours ago, John M Upton said:

 

The problem there is that the 14xx was Hattons and they and Bachmann are no longer friends so unlikely unless the tooling rights were sold completely.

 

Ahhh, I'd take all that kind of stuff with a pinch of salt, it's amazing sometimes how perceived arch rivals can make amends when there's a deal to be done.  Never say never etc...

 

Al 

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5 hours ago, woodenhead said:

 

There is also Sonic Rail - Whilst the 56xx has been supported by RevolutioN it was clear this was to help them into the market, perhaps here too a link up with EFE Rail / Kernow would really help the N market.  I assume that it wasn't Mr Sonic who did the Class 17 for DJ, if it was then he has already begun this link.

 

Can't remember why but I seem to think Mr Sonic has nothing to do with DJM, I could be wrong it's just a vague feeling.

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1 hour ago, Tricky-CRS said:

 

Can't remember why but I seem to think Mr Sonic has nothing to do with DJM, I could be wrong it's just a vague feeling.

 

Pretty sure that's right too. Seem to remember reading at the time of his tie up with Revolution that examples of his work were to be found in the Farish range

 

Rob

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6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

As ever there isn't any.  All people need to do - if they're actually bothered to look at facts instead of what amounts to shooting from the hip - is look at the financial results of the companies involved and look at statements with those accounts or in annual reports.  They could even read a thread on RNwebabout Hornby where their financial situation has long been examined and analysed on this forum to get a very rapid understanding that manufacturing model railways is not necessarily a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.  Or just look at the number of manufacturers who have gone well and truly bust over the past couple of decades.  Incidentally when Bachmann's prices in Britain rose they actually got back into profit - is that a message?

 

As for EFE Rail why on earth do people  continue to miss the very simple earth shattering fact?  It gives Bachmann Europe a second big ticket string to its retail bow in Britain and it's one that does not rely on Kader's two factories for supplies where it is in internal competition with the massively larger US brands owned by Kader.  Bachmann Europe have been concerned about intermittent supply hitting their bottom line (their words not mine) so they have done something about it by introducing a new label taking product from non Kader manufacturing sources.  It's also done Kernow good by widening the market for their products.  Subject to how well it sells it is a win-win situation for both Kernow and Bachmann Europe (which incidentally no longer belongs to Kader but is individually owned by the senior Mr Ting although it is still considered part of Kader because he is the senior shareholder there).

 

So let's get real - new brand entry in the troubled world of 2020 and from what I have heard tests by more than one reviewer of the new j94 are favourable.  And if you don't like the price don't buy - take up fishing or golf instead and discover that they even more expensive.


Good points SM .  Only thing I’d say is you need to look at accounts of Kader and Bachmann Europe together because of the trading relationship . Much is dependent on the price Kader sells the item to Bachmann Europe . If for instance there is a high price , the profit is recorded in Kader . If low transfer price the profit is in Bachmann Europe . A lot depends on who had the lowest tax rate . It’s called Transfer Pricing and the Inland Revenue used to rake a great interest in it . 

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20 minutes ago, Legend said:


Good points SM .  Only thing I’d say is you need to look at accounts of Kader and Bachmann Europe together because of the trading relationship . Much is dependent on the price Kader sells the item to Bachmann Europe . If for instance there is a high price , the profit is recorded in Kader . If low transfer price the profit is in Bachmann Europe . A lot depends on who had the lowest tax rate . It’s called Transfer Pricing and the Inland Revenue used to rake a great interest in it . 

Exactly so - sorry not strictly EFE here - when Bachmann sold at low retail prices they made a profit but Kader didn't.  What then happened was that Kader moved things around so that Bachmann prices increased but Kader's losses on 'models and toys' turned into profits (although it obviously wasn't just about Bachmann in the UK).  In more recent results there are other factors working at Kader so it isn't quite the same simplistic situation now but what has happened is that Kader are no longer selling internally to Bachmann Europe at a loss.

 

Where it does translate through to EFE I think is that the retail price levels suggest that Bachmann Europe won't be selling the new bought-in range at a loss.

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1 hour ago, Suffolk Rob said:

 

Pretty sure that's right too. Seem to remember reading at the time of his tie up with Revolution that examples of his work were to be found in the Farish range

 

Rob

That is correct, I believe the Coronation was one such.

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Hello all,

 

Just for clarity, Sam, the proprietor of Sonic Models, is a former Kader engineer who designed many Farish N gauge models including the Princess Coronation class.  He has no link with any DJM projects.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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1 hour ago, Ben A said:

 

Hello all,

 

Just for clarity, Sam, the proprietor of Sonic Models, is a former Kader engineer who designed many Farish N gauge models including the Princess Coronation class.  He has no link with any DJM projects.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

All the better then, as that means another factory to supply N gauge items.

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20 hours ago, YesTor said:

...

 

This kind of occurrence made me realize just how many often standard products that a significant proportion of modellers must not know exist - and that's before we get anywhere near the umpteen exclusive lines and commissions.  So any potential new sales avenues for some of those products surely have to be avenues worth exploiting.  Any business would be crazy not to.

 

 

 

You would also be surprised then at the percentage of businesses that don't bother with magazines or the internet, either.  Especially the latter.  However, any attempt at suggesting it would be a good idea, even in the most basic of ways, often tends to get shouted-down on here - usually by people who already know how to get hold of the little old man who happens to meet their own specific personal requirements and care nothing for anyone else who might want to get into modelling the same theme, but can't even find out that relevant products that would help them even exist ...

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1 hour ago, Willie Whizz said:

 

You would also be surprised then at the percentage of businesses that don't bother with magazines or the internet, either.  Especially the latter.  However, any attempt at suggesting it would be a good idea, even in the most basic of ways, often tends to get shouted-down on here - usually by people who already know how to get hold of the little old man who happens to meet their own specific personal requirements and care nothing for anyone else who might want to get into modelling the same theme, but can't even find out that relevant products that would help them even exist ...

 

But your talking about small one man businesses not multi national corporations such as Bachmann.

 

It's like comparing a local burger van to McDonalds.

 

 

Jason

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11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

But your talking about small one man businesses not multi national corporations such as Bachmann.

 

It's like comparing a local burger van to McDonalds.

 

 

Jason

But a local retailer can be very much like the local burger van - offering a quality of service and interest in their customers which can only come from regular personal contact.  And very often those customers rely on that local business as their source of information and advice.   The best burgers I have ever bought from a 'High Street' shop outlet came from a shop in Oxford - lihght years ahead of MacDonalds in quality etc (sorry, I realise that is damning with faint praise).

 

In just the same sort of way my local model shop - albeit 30 miles away - always tests locos etc before handing them over and in pre-Covid days always gave me a cuppa when i was in the shop.

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This morning I received my batch of EFE Rail JIA Nacco China clay wagons. They  are a mix of lightly weathered and unweathered wagons, I am very happy with detail and weathering on them.

Edited by dave56
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4 minutes ago, dave56 said:

This morning I received my batch of EFE Rail JIA Nacco China clay wagons. They  are a mix of lightly weathered and unweathered wagons, I am very happy with detail and weathering on them.

I remember when they were done the first time around that people weren’t particularly happy with the weathering job, how does it stack up in person. I’ve got a few weathered clay tigers and thought they were okay, is it similar? Cheers 

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3 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

I remember when they were done the first time around that people weren’t particularly happy with the weathering job, how does it stack up in person. I’ve got a few weathered clay tigers and thought they were okay, is it similar? Cheers 

I have nothing to compare with , but to me they look good.

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16 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But a local retailer can be very much like the local burger van - offering a quality of service and interest in their customers which can only come from regular personal contact.  And very often those customers rely on that local business as their source of information and advice.   The best burgers I have ever bought from a 'High Street' shop outlet came from a shop in Oxford - lihght years ahead of MacDonalds in quality etc (sorry, I realise that is damning with faint praise).

 

In just the same sort of way my local model shop - albeit 30 miles away - always tests locos etc before handing them over and in pre-Covid days always gave me a cuppa when i was in the shop.

 

That's not what I was talking about though.

 

It was a rant by the poster about small suppliers not being on the internet and still taking cheques rather than PayPal/credit cards. It was a swipe at cottage industry manufacturers that sell a few bits and pieces for not being major manufacturers. Hence the "little old man" jibe.

 

John from Cambridge Custom Transfers has been on the receiving end a few times. If only he worked harder he'd be a millionaire churning out all those transfers.  :rolleyes:

 

It happens in every "Small Supplier" thread from the same poster...

 

 

 

Jason

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